The President Obama Thread: "Election Year" Edition III

[TheVileOne]

Obama and Biden said they were against gay marriage when they got elected in 2008 so . . . there you go.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Obama and Biden said they were against gay marriage when they got elected in 2008 so . . . there you go.

Obama did however say he was in favor of, at the very least, civil unions for gay couples.

 

[Thundercrack85]

If you're not gay, you probably don't feel particularly strongly one way or the other about gay marriage. Unless you're a Mormon (in which case you spend millions of dollars fighting it).

 

[TheVileOne]

Obama did however say he was in favor of, at the very least, civil unions for gay couples.

So what? So did a lot of conservatives and Republicans. They would say that as a way to defend their position against gay marriage.

Do Mormons spend millions against gay marriage? Mitt Romney said Mormonism is about letting other people make their own decisions.

 

[Denny67]

As I see it, every American should feel strongly about the subject of gay marriage. Churches have every right in the world to refuse to preform same sex marriages but the government at any level has no right whatsoever to make same sex marriages illegal or inhibit rights that the rest of us enjoy as Americans.

This country still carries the scars of government sanctioned racial bigotry from our past and now we are making the same mistakes all over again with American's sexual orientation. This is one of the hardest topics my wife and I explaining to our kids because in school and at home they are taught to be excepting and look past superficial differences in people and instead look at people's character. Meanwhile our government is doing the exact opposite.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Actually the government is being completely representative of the people (as it should be). It's sending mixed messages. Because most Americans can't make up their mind.

 

[TheVileOne]

I honestly don't feel all that strongly about it. I'm sort of on the side of if gays really want to get married, then OK get married. One of my dearest friends is gay, and he has a steady boyfriend. Who am I to deny them from ultimately getting married if that's what they want?

But in terms of the election, it's really at the bottom of the list for me.

But my point is this, 2008 Obama and Biden in their platform were AGAINST gay marriage. So they did flip flop on that issue. Just saying. So that's why when each campaign is like YOU FLIP FLOPPED ON THIS YOU FLIP FLOPPED on that it's so stupid to me. Or how the media is like GOTCHA FLIP FLOPPING ON THIS! But they don't hold the other side accountable for the same thing.

Another thing I notice a lot of people who are trying to defend the criticisms against Obama all take the route of "it's because he's black!" Or say things like "you should always respect the president and the office." Look at Chuck Lorre's most recent little vanity card.

But then I mean when Bush is president are you kidding me? Has everyone forgotten all the anti-Bush president? I know he was a pariah and a polarizing figure but did liberals ever really grant Bush that type of respect? No they didn't. People went after Bush just as much or even worse than Obama. But now if you come after Obama, you are automatically branded as a racist by democratic politicans or Hollywood liberals like Chuck Lorre who denigrate and insult Romney's Mormon faith (very tolerant of you).

 

[redhawk23]

So what? So did a lot of conservatives and Republicans. They would say that as a way to defend their position against gay marriage.

Do Mormons spend millions against gay marriage? Mitt Romney said Mormonism is about letting other people make their own decisions.

Think of it this way, despite Proposition 8 being an anti gay marriage law in California, almost $3 million of campaign support came from individuals and businesses in Utah, which along with strong Mormon support within California has led to the bill being called "the mormon proposition." Mitt Romney says a lot of things to make his positions and background seem palatable.

 

[TheVileOne]

Sounds like free speech to me. Individuals and businesses in Utah to me also seems racist to paint it all as all the Mormons are spending millions against gay marriage.

 

[redhawk23]

No one said they were out of bounds of their right of free speech. That doesn't mean others aren't equally free to think they're assh**** for the things they support though. There were major endorsements of the bill from the Church of Latter Day saints.

The same is true of the Catholic Church of course, but they had less of a concerted effort.

Here is a letter from the "First Presidency" the leadership of the Church of Latter Day Saints (Mormonism)

Preserving Traditional Marriage and Strengthening Families

In March 2000 California voters overwhelmingly approved a state law providing that “Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.” The California Supreme Court recently reversed this vote of the people. On November 4, 2 008, Californians will vote on a proposed amendment to the California state constitution that will now restore the March 2000 definition of marriage approved by the voters.

The Church’s teachings and position on this moral issue are unequivocal. Marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God, and the formation of families is central to the Creator’s plan for His children. Children are entitled to be born within this bond of marriage.

A broad-based coalition of churches and other organizations placed the proposed amendment on the ballot. The Church will participate with this coalition in seeking its passage. Local Church leaders will provide information about how you may become involved in this important cause.

We ask that you do all you can to support the proposed constitutional amendment by donating of your means and time to assure that marriage in California is legally defined as being between a man and a woman. Our best efforts are required to preserve the sacred institution of marriage.

Also, Mormons are not a race...

 

[TheVileOne]

IMHO painting in the brush of all Mormons are anti-gay marriage and spending millions to go against gay marriage sounds wrong and prejudiced to me.

 

[redhawk23]

Again, that letter is from their highest leadership, it is the position of their establishment.

It is no more prejudiced than saying that the official stance of Catholicism, as decreed by the Pope, is against same sex marriage and that several Catholic organizations and many individual Catholics have taken action against same sex marriage.

That is not prejudice, that is fact.

 

[TheVileOne]

So? He's not the president of Mormonism. He doesn't speak for all of them.

Now the Catholic church, I think they are highly corrupt but that doesn't mean I think all Catholics are corrupt and they all hate gays and are against gay marriage.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

If you're not gay, you probably don't feel particularly strongly one way or the other about gay marriage. Unless you're a Mormon (in which case you spend millions of dollars fighting it).

I'm not gay, and I feel very strongly in favor of gay marriage. Because it's not a gay issue, it's a civil rights issue.

Actually the government is being completely representative of the people (as it should be). It's sending mixed messages. Because most Americans can't make up their mind.

Not in this case. The rights of the minority are not to be voted on by the majority. It's in the constitution.

 

[SV Fan]

We ask that you do all you can to support the proposed constitutional amendment by donating of your means and time to assure that marriage in California is legally defined as being between a man and a woman. Our best efforts are required to preserve the sacred institution of marriage.

Yes the sacred institution of marriage as a union between a man and a woman and her sister and her other sister and her cousin.

 

[Schlosser85]

The Mormon Church talking about defining marriage as one man and one woman is hilarious.

 

[redhawk23]

So? He's not the president of Mormonism. He doesn't speak for all of them.

Now the Catholic church, I think they are highly corrupt but that doesn't mean I think all Catholics are corrupt and they all hate gays and are against gay marriage.

Actually that's actually what he is, that is literally what the position is called, and with the position he is considered a living prophet by members of the religion. Even if an individual Mormon doesn't fully agree with the stance of the Church, they continue to committ 10% of their wealth to the organization.

When the offiical establishment of an organization takes a stance, and then that organization takes political action and spends millions of dollars in support of that stance, it is not "prejudiced" to state that the organization has a stance on an issue.

 

[Motown Marvel]

If you're not gay, you probably don't feel particularly strongly one way or the other about gay marriage.

this is insanely untrue. first of all, if straight people didnt care about the gay marriage issue, then it would probably be legal by now since there would be no one fighting against it. second, there are massive amounts of straight people who fight for gay marriage. myself being only one of them. third, if straight people didnt care about the issue, then it wouldnt be such a huge issue in today's world. but it is.

 

[Matt]

How can people justify voting for a man that decides against gay marriage?

President Obama has already said that he will not push for gay marriage in his second term. In other words, he supports it through words only but will do nothing to make it a reality. It is like the abortion issue. Republicans aren't truly against abortion. If abortion were made illegal, what carrot could they dangle in front of the far right electorate? The same holds true with gay marriage. When it is legal, Democrats will no longer have a carrot to dangle in front of the gay community. Therefore they will not make real effort to legalize it.

 

[Schlosser85]

There are straight people absolutely obsessed with opposing gay marriage to where it seems to be the driving force behind their entire existence (though I have to question how "straight" some of those people really are), and also straight people who are very active, hardworking, passionate, and dedicated allies of the gay rights movement.

 

[Matt]

No doubt about it, which is why neither said wants it legalized. It keeps those who would vote based on the issue rallied around the parties.

 

[SV Fan]

Obama is pulling away with New Hampshire

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/06/dixville-notch-voters-obama-romney

Dixville Notch voters split evenly at five votes each for Obama and Romney

In a quirk of US election precedent, two precincts have already reported results: Dixville Notch, New Hampshire, whose residents vote immediately after midnight; and Hart’s Location, New Hampshire, which boasts 33 voters.

The precinct captain announced: “This has never happened before in Dixville, we have a tie, five votes each.”

Now there’s an omen for America. Except that Dixville has two registered Democrats, three registered Republicans, and five registered independents. So Obama won indies 60% to 40%.

The second oddball early voting location is tiny Hart’s Location in New Hampshire – and it went for Barack Obama. Obama won 23 votes, Romney got 9 and Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson received one vote.
For those who want to know, in 2008 it was Obama 17, McCain 10.

So aggregating Dixville Notch and Hart’s Location: Obama 28, Romney 14, Johnson 1. That’s the official tally so far.

 

[Marvolo]

So NH isnt a winner take all state?

 

[dnno1]

http://www.intrade.com/v4/misc/scoreboard/

 

[SV Fan]

So NH isnt a winner take all state?

Yeah 4 electoral votes. I personally have that state going Obama although unlike other states I think Obama will win I am not so sure about Obama winning this. If by any chance Obama loses Ohio, winning NH could help Obama just get over 270(the combination of Colorado and NH + Iowa, Nevada and Wisconsin gives Obama 272 or take away Colorado and Iowa and Add Virginia that is 270)

It should be pointed out the difference in electoral votes in 2000 was New Hampshire(271 Bush 267 Gore) and NH is a state that has voted Democrat since Clinton with the one exception of 2000