The 'race' issue...

[Project862006]

i always viewed goku as similar to ryu of street fighter is white but has alot of asian culture

 

[CaptainClown]

ryu? white what? Do you mean ken?

 

[tekken]

ryu is definitely japanese. lol. and believe it or not, so is ken. he's a japense guy who dyed his hair blonde, and moved to america. at least that's what i've been told...so he's a lot like great teacher onizuka i think.

 

[CaptainClown]

ya I have heard different things about ken but I pretty much consider him chuck norris and ryu bruce lee. The basically american counterpart

 

[huzzah]

ryu is definitely japanese. lol. and believe it or not, so is ken. he's a japense guy who dyed his hair blonde, and moved to america. at least that's what i've been told...so he's a lot like great teacher onizuka i think.

Make sense because I've always wondered why his eyebrows were black.

 

[COAL TIGER]

It doesn't matter what thoeries people give. Goku was obviously meant to look Asian. For people to say they always pictured him white or that he's an alien so he shouldn't look Asain is just denial to me and just tells me that they just want Goku to look like them. I hate when a lot of things get white washed.

In the DB world people turn into gaint Apes, have the power to blow up moons, and have walking talking animals as friends. But yet, some people think that a alien just so happing to look Asian in an Asian country is ridiculous. That's just ******ed to me.

 

[javphonic]

realistically speaking Goku's facial features don't totally represent Asian features, if you dressed him up in any other clothes one would'nt assume he was Asian right off the back... if it was so obvious it would'n't matter what he wore people would know he was Asian no matter what, ex. no matter what Jackie Chan wears (even his animated version) he'll always look Asian








I still think Goku should've been racially ambiguous

 

[LondonGirl]

..oh no

Your avvy is sick!!

Anways hmm I dont mind that Goku is not being played by an Asian. Before I did mind but now its like so what? It doesnt really matter. What matters is Justin Chatwin's acting skills. We should be focusing on whether he can pull Goku off....

 

[COAL TIGER]

realistically speaking Goku's facial features don't totally represent Asian features, if you dressed him up in any other clothes one would'nt assume he was Asian right off the back... if it was so obvious it would'n't matter what he wore people would know he was Asian no matter what, ex. no matter what Jackie Chan wears (even his animated version) he'll always look Asian








I still think Goku should've been racially ambiguous

What do you mean realistically? Goku is a cartoon Character. Goku has slanted eyes and an oval shaped head like a typical Asian. And he was Based off Asian characters, created by an Asian, and was in an Asian cartoon that aired in an Asian country. Common Sense would tell you that Goku was meant to be Asian. Like I said, Denial. You people want him to look like you. And Jackie Chan is a bad example because he's real.

 

[Legion]

Jackie chan's animated version looks asian because his series isn't anime.

 

[CaptainClown]

hell just about all anime the characters don't look asian. You kind of have to take their word for it that they are..lets use this fella as an example.

 

[Lobo]

don't hotlink

 

[CaptainClown]

fixed for lobo

 

[Movies205]

To be honest, people don't see the "asian qualities" most likely because they are no asian and are not part of asian society. I don't know if latent-racism is the right term due to the extremely negative connotation it holds, but its the same principle when extremely ignorant people say "all <insert racial group here> look the same>. That and the color of their skin is white instead of the tan color western society normally associate with asian racial traits.

 

[javphonic]

What do you mean realistically? Goku is a cartoon Character. Goku has slanted eyes and an oval shaped head like a typical Asian. And he was Based off Asian characters, created by an Asian, and was in an Asian cartoon that aired in an Asian country. Common Sense would tell you that Goku was meant to be Asian. Like I said, Denial. You people want him to look like you. And Jackie Chan is a bad example because he's real.

his eyes only slant when he's angry... I think everycharacter's eyes do this when their angry in most anime or animated shows and drawings I've seen

-I never knew oval-shaped heads where characteristics of Asians, I thought that was a characteristic of most mammals, but WE

Uhm, you clearly didn't read my entire post- I DON'T WANT Goku to look like me, I'm only pointing out the obvious, THE ANIME CHARACTER GOKU (as do many other anime characters) DOESN'T LOOK STRAIGHT UP ASIAN... if it wasn't for or background knowledge we would not assume he was Asian, especially if he were depicted in non-Asian clothes




AGAIN, I personally feel they should've cast a mixed or racially ambigious character as Goku, as then he'd look more Alien as you can't pinpoint what race he is exactly... such as someone with a background like Vanessa Hudgens-at times she looks White, Hispanic, Asian and even middle Eastern-there's always a question about her race/ethnicity

I used Jackie Chan as an example because his animated character actually looks Asian and despite wearing a contemporary American outfit his face still looks Asian... Anime examples would be Sasuke and Gaara from Naruto who actually looks Asian-their eyes don't have to be slanted to the extreme, nor must Gaara have dark hair yet they both look Asian, vs Naruto and Sakura who don't necessarily look asian, we only know they are because of their history

 

[Movies205]

his eyes only slant when he's angry... I think everycharacter's eyes do this when their angry in most animatied shows and drawings I've seen

I never knew oval-shaped headss where characteristics of Asians

Uhm, you clearly didn't read my entire post- I DON'T want Goku to look like me, I'm only pointing put the obvious, THE ANIME CHARACTER GOKU (as do many other anime characters) DOESN"T LOOK STRAIGHT UP ASIAN... if it wasn't for or background knowledge we would not assume he was white especially if he were depicted in non-Asian clothes

AGAIN, I personally feel they should've cast a mixed or racially ambigious character as Goku, as then he'd look more Alien as you can't pinpoint what race he is exactly... such as someone with a background like Vanessa Hudgens-at times she looks White, Hispanic, Asian and even middle Eastern-there's always a question about her race/ethnicity

I used Jackie Chan as an example because his animated character actually looks Asian and despite wearing a contemporary American outfit his face still looks Asian... an Anime example would be Sasuke from Naruto who actually looks Asian-his eyes doesn't have to be slanted to the extreme yet he looks Asian, vs Naruto and Sakura who don't necessarily look asian, we only know they are because of their history

You realize though that Jackie Chan Adventures is made by an American Animation house for American audiences? Thus based on Western sensibilities of what "Asian" looks like.

 

[kaypain]

delete

 

[kaypain]

I have no problem with the accusation of Goku looking Asian, that's fine, but he can never be Asian, there is a huge difference, and Asian isn't the only race he looks to me, like I said, Aliens... don't have human origin, they can look like it, but they can't inherit it... Saiyans is fictional race, Goku is a fictional character of that fictional race...

but like I said.. people have been debating this pointless argument since the freaking movie started..and never came to a conclusion .... so unless the creator, Mr. Akira ,tells us what his freaking race is this debate will never cease, and I just wish someone will get the balls and asked the guy and hopefully he will give feed back, and 9/10 I bet he'll answer you Saiyan..... which would just confused you even more, so you'll continue asking him more questions until you get the answer you are looking for..

to me it doesn't freaking what his race, I can get my little light -skinned brother, give him an orange gi, a big crazy mohawk, and call him Gokub

 

[COAL TIGER]

To be honest, people don't see the "asian qualities" most likely because they are no asian and are not part of asian society. I don't know if latent-racism is the right term due to the extremely negative connotation it holds, but its the same principle when extremely ignorant people say "all <insert racial group here> look the same>. That and the color of their skin is white instead of the tan color western society normally associate with asian racial traits.

Most people don't see "asian qualities" because they don't want to see it.

Yes, it's ignorant to say a certain color of people all look the same. But if you go to China you'll see that a very large number of them have the same features.

Not saying that Goku is Chinese though.

 

[Legion]

I have no problem with the accusation of Goku looking Asian, that's fine, but he can never be Asian, there is a huge difference, and Asian isn't the only race he looks to me, like I said, Aliens... don't have human origin, they can look like it, but they can't inherit it... Saiyans is fictional race, Goku is a fictional character of that fictional race...

but like I said.. people have been debating this pointless argument since the freaking movie started..and never came to a conclusion .... so unless the creator, Mr. Akira ,tells us what his freaking race is this debate will never cease, and I just wish someone will get the balls and asked the guy and hopefully he will give feed back, and 9/10 I bet he'll answer you Saiyan..... which would just confused you even more, so you'll continue asking him more questions until you get the answer you are looking for..

to me it doesn't freaking what his race, I can get my little light -skinned brother, give him an orange gi, a big crazy mohawk, and call him Gokub

So when they make another Superman movie, we can make him appear asian or black because he is an alien and it doesn't matter? His story also takes place in a fictional city called Metropolis,so since this isn't the exact same version of earth we live in, its ok to change things around, just like in Dragon ball.

Dragonball debuted in the 80's and was intended for an audience that was almost entirely asian. It has influences from asian culture all throughout the story and Goku's saiyan heritage was added as the series progressed.

I don't think Akira Toriyama knew his series would become an international success when he made it, I think it may contain crude and maybe sexist humor, some character designs that could be racist. I don't think he would admit to this, or say Goku is definitely "Asian", because he knows it may hurt the franchise.

 

[kaypain]

way to play on the defense..

and since you want to be the Superman counter - argument which is old and played out, I'll say yes....
in fact Will Smith was offered a role to play the new Superman.... .and I think, being the actor he is, he would have been nice....

and you mention his heritage was added.... It doesn't matter if it was added then, now, or yesterday, what's said is done, what's done is final, he's a saiyan, you are using that as an excuse and it doesn't work.....

I don't think he would admit to this, or say Goku is definitely "Asian", because he knows it may hurt the franchise.

what kind of logic is that, how would it hurt the franchise? if anything it would end this ridiculous argument, so you're saying he will just lie? If Goku is Asian, he'll tell you, end of story...

 

[javphonic]

So when they make another Superman movie, we can make him appear asian or black because he is an alien and it doesn't matter? His story also takes place in a fictional city called Metropolis,so since this isn't the exact same version of earth we live in, its ok to change things around, just like in Dragon ball.

Dragonball debuted in the 80's and was intended for an audience that was almost entirely asian. It has influences from asian culture all throughout the story and Goku's saiyan heritage was added as the series progressed.

I don't think Akira Toriyama knew his series would become an international success when he made it, I think it may contain crude and maybe sexist humor, some character designs that could be racist. I don't think he would admit to this, or say Goku is definitely "Asian", because he knows it may hurt the franchise.

good point about Supes

 

[javphonic]

You realize though that Jackie Chan Adventures is made by an American Animation house for American audiences? Thus based on Western sensibilities of what "Asian" looks like.

I understand that Jackie Chan is an American made Animated series, but to say it's a Western view of what an Asian looks like is not true, the character was drawn to look like Jackie Chan, an actual Asian, so it's not just a Western perception, but a caricature if you will

 

[Movies205]

Most people don't see "asian qualities" because they don't want to see it.

Yes, it's ignorant to say a certain color of people all look the same. But if you go to China you'll see that a very large number of them have the same features.

Not saying that Goku is Chinese though.

I forget I am talking on a message board and not in a college class so a lot of my posts need more explanation.

You can not go straight from Asian to Chinese since features of a Chinese person is incredibly different than a Thai or Phillipine. My point was referencing the ignorance people have and not realizing that ignorance, and thus thinking they are right. Many westerns assume all media is made for them, especially cartoons, so when they see Dragonball they register it as they do other cartoons which is its white people especially since they have white voices (which we know is dubbed). Without the charactiture stereotypes to blatantly point out that this person is i.e. different than us, they automatically assume there the same, and thus its more commercially appealing and able to sell better since its more disguisable as being one coming out of western culture. That was my point in a nut-shell, not that the Chinese, or any other asian nationality doesn't have distinct racial traits but that westerners are so blindly racist that they wouldn't be able to see that.

 

[Movies205]

I understand that Jackie Chan is an American made Animated series, but to say it's a Western view of what an Asian looks like is not true, the character was drawn to look like Jackie Chan, an actual Asian, so it's not just a Western perception, but a caricature if you will

How is what I said not true?

The minute one begins to "draw" they are creating a reality based on there own biased and subjective view of the world. The american creators see Jacky Chan first as "asian" then second as "human", so that predominates the cartoon, as compare to when whites create white characters they are simply seen as pure. Good example of this is Mr. Popo in DBZ, automatically recognizable as black to the point of blatantly racist. Jackie Chan is drawn as different because that's how westerners see him. Tokiyama would not have to do that since he was making it for his own country.h