The Dark Knight The Realism Debate thread

[fcrowelle06]

more closely related to B:TAS when they revamped it and the penguin had all of his shady business out of the spotlight when he owned that ritzy club that batman kept breaking into convinced that he was still a criminal

 

[Bright Knight]

you mean previous incarnations of the Penguin?...if that's what you mean then yes, but I wouldn't him to be too close to the animal aspects of it like in Batman Returns more like the ruthless english gangster who's effectively cold, calculating, and brilliant with a taste for unsual killings, like the umbrella's for different weapons

Lol... Yea, I maent the Penguin! Have Joker on the brain!

I don't like the umbrella idea, save for him hiding weapons in umbrellas it's a little kitsch.

 

[fcrowelle06]

no, that's what I mean, unusual hiding of weapons in his umbrella's , it's his trademark, makes him recognizable and feared in the criminal underworld, I mean let's take it from this angle: The Penguin known throughout Gotham's shady parts as a ruthless brilliant gangster who has all of his business dealings under the weather, but he brings his umbrella to each one...fear of the unexpected, is the umbrella real, or a weapon used to kill you if you cross him, it's just another tiny little aspect for character, I don't know

 

[fcrowelle06]

I mean on paper it looks kinca kitschy but it could be done well, depending on who directs it and writes his introduction

 

[terry78]

So no umbrellas releasing deadly gas.

 

[fcrowelle06]

wouldn't mind the deadly gas from the umbrella, but everyone seems to be using gas lately, no stick with the guns and swords in the umbrella

 

[gwynplaine]

I never thought the Penguin (little fat man with umbrellas)or even the Riddler (Dude who asks riddles) to be very scary. It'd would probably require a director like Nolan to, in my opinion, make them pose a real threat to Batman.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Well with penguin the umbrella thing is very easily solved...

Mobsters used to hide machine guns in umbrellas... The penguin hides his machine gun in his umbrella, and when he needs to, he puts his hand inside his closed umbrella and shoots. He could be a posh english arms dealer... NO NEED for the top hat. But he could be camp I suppose? Paul Bethany?

I find it hysterical there is a need to explain everything. Seriously, if Penguin was ever in a Nolan Bat-film, do we NEED to know how his umbrella shoots bullets? And Penguin always wears a top hat and monocle, it's his style. No reason to get rid of things like that because people think it's too campy or won't fit in "Nolan's gritty realism."

I never thought the Penguin (little fat man with umbrellas)or even the Riddler (Dude who asks riddles) to be very scary. It'd would probably require a director like Nolan to, in my opinion, make them pose a real threat to Batman.

The Riddler is not suppose to be scary, but he does pose a threat. He's a vastly intelligent mastermind who intentionally leaves behind clues(riddles) that usually are so puzzling to answer that by the time the cops can figure out what a certain riddle means, Riddler has already robbed a big place or committed another murder. The Penguin is just a corrupt gangster, he's about as much of a threat as The Roman, I'd say. It'd be a cool idea to have him run a club and be an English arms dealer.

 

[fcrowelle06]

My thoughts exactly Socko, I'm still wondering on the Harley Quinn, the costume has to stay, if they can keep the joker costume, then the harley quinn costume can stay, but probably the hardest to bring across believably in Nolan's world are IVy, Freeze, and Croc

 

[Mr. Socko]

I don't think Nolan would even want to use Ivy or Freeze!

 

[StorminNorman]

Did somebody just suggest Paul Bettany for the Penguin?

Much worse, did someone call him Paul Bethany?

 

[fcrowelle06]

What's wrong with IVy and Freeze? they can be put in Nolan's world (I'm starting to hate that phrase)

 

[Mr. Socko]

They could, I don't mean they couldn't fit into his world, I just highly doubt Nolan would use them. Batman 3 is going to be a round up of TDK, meaning it will still have Two Face and Joker as the villains.

Penguin and Riddler can both work as minor villains that could certainly fit into Batman 3 despite already having Face and Joker as villains. Freeze, on the other hand, would require a lot of screentime to fully get him right. And add in Ivy, that would just be too much.

The only possible way Ivy and Freeze would ever make it into a Nolan bat-film is if he's going to go past a trilogy which I doubt.

 

[itsthebatman]

Did somebody just suggest Paul Bettany for the Penguin?

Much worse, did someone call him Paul Bethany?

I was wondering when you arrive to blow your gasket about that. He'd look lovely in a wee tux.

 

[Figs]

My thoughts exactly Socko, I'm still wondering on the Harley Quinn, the costume has to stay, if they can keep the joker costume, then the harley quinn costume can stay, but probably the hardest to bring across believably in Nolan's world are IVy, Freeze, and Croc

Don't forget Clayface.

 

[Mr. Socko]

So do you guys think Nolan and his realistic world/plausible take on Batman will only be for a trilogy? Or do you think he would come back for more films after 3?

 

[bobguy64]

I think there's a distinction to be made between 'realistic' and 'credible'.

Neal Adams' Batman is credible, whereas Alex Ross' Batman is very realistic.

That being said, give me credible any day. I don't want so much realism that the fantasy gets squashed, but I don't want such a lack of credibility that the situations lose their threat.

For example, if it takes Rachel (or whoever) sixty seconds to fall off a ten story building just to give Bruce enough time to change to Batman, this is just a joke. No threat, no drama, its just a cartoon.

On the other hand, I don't want Batman to drive a ordinary car and wear a black trenchcoat, either. I don't want an ordinary vigilante, I want Batman.

I want a credible version of the fantastic, which is a fine line to walk.

IMO, Nolan is doing a great job so far.



.

 

[sasquatchs]

If Rachel falls off a building, then Batman jumps off, there's no way he can save her. Unless he has rocket boots

 

[Figs]

So do you guys think Nolan and his realistic world/plausible take on Batman will only be for a trilogy? Or do you think he would come back for more films after 3?

Only a trilogy, if even that. I remember in the past Nolan was saying he might not want to do a third. A lot of fans were then saying that his brother could take over for him if that happens.

I personally want him to do all 3, if he does a 4th that could be cool depending on where the 3rd film leaves us. There are so many characters after Joker/Two-Face that I don't think could hold a movie on their own. Like Mad Hatter, Scarface and so on.... I think Mr. Freeze if done right this time would be a good one.

 

[itsthebatman]

So do you guys think Nolan and his realistic world/plausible take on Batman will only be for a trilogy? Or do you think he would come back for more films after 3?

Trilogy, I'd say. He'd be creatively burned out. I'd love a really excellent trilogy that tells a whole story, and maybe ends with Robin being introduced, a la Dark Victory. Have Selina in part 3 also, and maybe Cobblepot, and all my fave Bat-characters would be in this trilogy. That, I would love.

 

[Dvhyzs]

If Rachel falls off a building, then Batman jumps off, there's no way he can save her. Unless he has rocket boots

That would be waaaay too spiderman IMO.

 

[bobguy64]

If Rachel falls off a building, then Batman jumps off, there's no way he can save her. Unless he has rocket boots

What if he starts out below her, and catches her on the way down?

With his majical flying cape (I never liked that).


.

 

[itsthebatman]

If Rachel falls off a building, then Batman jumps off, there's no way he can save her. Unless he has rocket boots

But that's commonly done in these movies - someone falls, then someone who jumps off a second later catches up with the. Damned variable gravity!

 

[sasquatchs]

We need another surfing down from the upper atmosphere on a piece of rocket scene, otherwise I'm boycotting this movie

 

[sasquatchs]

What if he starts out below her, and catches her on the way down?

With his majical flying cape (I never liked that).


.

You don't like the cape? But it adds so much. For a little bit of credibility leeway you don't have to ask the question, what if he falls off the building?