Oh ok USMC your right and I’m wrong.
Damn you beat me..
Just Kidding! HA
The Venom character didn't go to crap because of Brock being the host, it went to crap because marvel did what they always do with a success... they beat it into the ground until it is no longer a success. Carnage and maximum Carnage and the planet Symbiote storylines, etc. are what made Venom no longer interesting. Instead of delving deeper into who Brock is/was (aside from being married), their solution to more sales was to just add more symbiotes. Venom was no longer original, and basically became a boring one-dimensional villain.
Venom/Brock did not ‘become’ a one dimensional character.
That’s all he ever was, initially this was exciting but once we had seen all that there was to Venom, and that he did not succeed in killing Spider-man then he had already cashed all his chips in. After ASM#347 he was way boring. Brock was never designed w/ delving deeper into who he was being kept in mind as something that might be tapped into in the future. Venom/Brock was only about one thing and that was killing Spider-man. This made him a menacing and great villain for a short period of time, but once that ran it's course and he failed why would any of us give a flying f**k about who he is?
The same can be said of most villains in comics. How many villains actually have any REAL depth to them? Like I said, when writers do manage to bring out villains as real characters, things get interesting. They could have done that with brock, but they chose to go a different direction. And having the suit jump around every few years would have been equally stupid because then you'd REALLY never have any depth from whoever the host happened to be. You'd either have the suit jumping to known superpowered villains (like Scorpion, whose always been a ****ty second rate villain anyway) which would become really overused after awhile... or you'd have to keep coming up with new regular people who just happen to get the suit for whatever reason, and how much depth could possibly be made for them if the suit jumps away after a few years (which, btw, in comic book time would be mere MONTHS).
MOST Spider-man villains initially start off by using their powers for illegitimate personal gain, and then run into Spider-man. In addition to this, regarding the really good bad guys- as time goes by their relationship w/ Spidey becomes more complex and or they themselves do. They develop as characters in their own right just like we saw PP/SM develop. This makes for a much more satisfying/rewarding reading experience.
None of this ever happened w/ Venom/Brock.
He knew everything about PP/SM from the get go and all he ever wanted was SM dead, plus his relationship w/ PP/SM never developed (well it did eventually when Spidey and Brock became partners to capture Carnage, or when Venom became LP but that was all craptastic so it’s not relevant to the period when Brock was a great villain prior to ASM#347). You see Venom/Brock did work, but integral to what made him work were his design limitations. We did not know that much about him- he was just a big ball of hate obsessed w/ killing Spider-man. It felt like danger/death was imminent in Venom’s first four apps, it was exciting. By the time SM tricked Venom into thinking he was dead the whole thing had run as long as it could.
When Venom found out Spidey was still alive and was asked for his help to stop Carnage, the real Venom would have killed Spider-man right there on the spot then maybe gone after Carnage.
Since Venom only ever worked when he was obsessed w/ killing Spider-man anything else is not Venom (like LP or teaming up w/ Spidey). More importantly tho, this meant that Venom/EB could only work for a short period of time because once you knew he was not going to kill SM then Venom as a character was cooked since that’s all he was about.
Talking about the symbiote jumping hosts- yeah I’m aware that a few years of the printed page is a few months or whatever in the MU, but the point is over a few years of comics a character can be explored and defined somewhat. What should have happened is after ASM#347, the symbiote jumps host and joins w/ someone who was a different type of person to Brock, a character w/ substance. This new Venom would have different goals but eventually Venom would cross paths w/ Spider-man again and they would end up fighting, that sort of thing. If the human component of Venom had been a new character every few years as initially envisioned, then Venom would have been a really unique and cool villain because they would have been a continually evolving entity instead of the now stagnant and boring EB/Venom.
Then most villains should be obsolete, especially the Green Goblin. Because most villains are obssessed with only one thing or another.
Norman Osborn while hating PP/SM and wanting to wipe him out actually had a relationship PP/SM that evolved over time. He started his foray into criminal underworld for his own gain, not to fight super hero’s. As such this meant he was written w/ an initial level of substance/interest that EB/Venom never had. Over time Osborn actually used his cunning to figure out stuff about PP like his personal Identity, rather than getting it handed to him on a silver platter. Of course he then went on to actually kill PP’s girlfriend. That’s a pretty damn big score against the hero, it made things personal and insured Osborn could never become obsolete in the way that a character who’s only goal in life (and sole characterisation) is to kill someone but never does, becomes obsolete really fast.
Again, that would apply to most villains, that's what makes them villains. We all know they're never going to actually kill Spider-Man, but we still like to watch them try, right?
Yeah of course we like to watch em fight Spidey and have rubber matches, but that’s because they are not solely defined by wanting to kill him like Venom/EB is. They actually have personalities and goals irrelevant to Spider-man.
And c'mon man, that storyline with Venom hunting Spidey on that island is a classic, don't you think?!
Yeah man it’s a classic, that’s when I liked Venom.
PS. McFarlane's Venom sucked ass.
t:
No way.
McFarlane’s was the best, then Larsen’s second.
Different strokes. Larsen's my favourite Venom artist, and speaking of over the top? McFarlane couldn't draw a normal person if his life depended on it. His art is horrible, always has been, always will (oh wait, he doesn't draw anymore, too busy playing with his action figures or something.
McFarlane never wanted to draw normal looking people.
His work was deliberately highly stylised and the way he drew Spider-man was often intended to be anatomically impossible. You either like his style or not, I guess you don’t I do.
I'm really excited for his comeback, since it's not being handled by someone like Bendis.
