Homecoming The Symbiote Thread: Venom, Carnage, and all that jazz

[Doctor Octopus]

Honestly, it wouldn't bother me if we never saw them

They're visually striking. Beyond that, I never cared much for them as characters. Carnage was my favorite Spider-Man villain as a child. Now he's one of my least favorite.

Agreed. I hope symbiote characters never get used again. They all terrible characters and not good for anything except visuals.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I don't think I mentioned it earlier, but I'd love Infinity War to be the introduction of the symbiote (since I doubt Secret Wars is happening any time soon).

 

[ernesth100]

They're going to introduce at some point there's no debating that. But I think it would be safe to assume they are going to wait a while before they do. Like after the first 3 movies.

 

[Snow Queen]

Venom's probably one of the characters from the Spider-man universe (apart from Spidey himself) that can most benefit from being in the MCU. Isn't Agent Venom part of the Guardians of the Galaxy now or recently? That could be an interesting way to go.

 

[Mike Murdock]

They're going to introduce at some point there's no debating that. But I think it would be safe to assume they are going to wait a while before they do. Like after the first 3 movies.

Well, I never take anything for granted. Don't shoehorn things in because you're worried about missing out, but don't assume good things will last forever. They might not introduce him because they'll reboot again instead.

 

[ernesth100]

Well, I never take anything for granted. Don't shoehorn things in because you're worried about missing out, but don't assume good things will last forever. They might not introduce him because they'll reboot again instead.

*slaps Mike*
Don't you dare! We can't handle another reboot! Do you any idea what we've been through? The word reboot should not be in Marvel's vocabulary ever again!

*Takes deep breath*


@Snow Queen, yes Agent Venom was involved with the Guardians in the comics recently. And yes, it would be a cool concept.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I'm sorry, but no. I understand Agent Venom(not what they've recently done with him), but while Carnage is ok, Eddie Brock/Venom is miles better and interesting than him.

You're right that Eddie is more interesting than Cletus, but Carnage *could* be done well. It really comes down to whether Marvel commits fully to his dark motivations.

Think about the Joker's motivation in The Dark Knight: chaos and proving that he can make others act like him. On paper, that's lame, but the execution made it a thing of beauty. Carnage has a similar motivation, only a different modus operandi. He enjoys the closeness of killing and the simple brutality of it. He thinks society is a façade and morality is a myth, but freedom can be achieved through bloodshed and chaos. He would be a stark contrast to any villain we've seen in the MCU or the Spidey movies.

 

[Mike Murdock]

*slaps Mike*
Don't you dare! We can't handle another reboot! Do you any idea what we've been through? The word reboot should not be in Marvel's vocabulary ever again!

It may not be, but it might very well be in Sony's and they still ultimately hold the keys.

 

[ernesth100]

On a non-reboot related note. Would anyone like to see a Non-Alien Venom origin. I think that happened in the comics at one point.

 

[Ghostcrow13]

On a non-reboot related note. Would anyone like to see a Non-Alien Venom origin. I think that happened in the comics at one point.

What like Oscorp creates it

 

[Mike Murdock]

On a non-reboot related note. Would anyone like to see a Non-Alien Venom origin. I think that happened in the comics at one point.

Not a chance. I think that's dumb. The alien origin, making it a living, breathing, alien creature is far more appealing. Plus, I go a step further - it shouldn't just randomly appear on Earth. Instead, it should be closer to Secret Wars. Either introduced in an adaptation of that story or introduced in Infinity War.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

I'm sorry, but no. I understand Agent Venom(not what they've recently done with him), but while Carnage is ok, Eddie Brock/Venom is miles better and interesting than him.

No. Hell no.

Eddie is nothing but motivated by revenge. He's got some sympatic stuff and we've had that with nearly every live action Spidey villain.

Carnage is everything Venom should be. Venom looks like a creature out of a space horror film like Alien but he's nothing more then a pathatic man blaming his problems on others.

Carnage looks and acts like a horror creature. Carnage wants nothing more then to kill you and everything. With the exception of Norman, no Spidey villain is as evil as Carnage but he also is way more dangerous and deadly then Norman.

While Venom has had multiple hosts, Cletus is Carnage.

 

[ernesth100]

I actually stated Carnage was the most dangerous villain a while back. My statement went.Carnage=Most Dangerous Spider-Man Enemy
Goblin=Most Common Spider-Man Enemy
Doctor Octopus=Exact Opposite of Spider-Man


Venom is more so just motivated by revenge. Eddie Brock I imagine might be able to get over it, but Venom however is the main thing that want's to kill Spider-Man because Spider-Man ditched Venom. Venom is only adding it's aggression towards Spider-Man to Eddie Brock aggression towards Peter Parker. Take Venom out of the equation and Eddie Brock probably would've gotten over whatever Peter did to him(there's so many variations of why Venom hates Peter/Spider-Man). But thanks to Venom he can't...cept for a couple of times where Eddie's will managed to shine through and he teamed up with Spidey.

 

[I'm Venom]

Brock sees Parker as a bad guy, because Parker was responsible for getting him fired from the Bugle and ruining his career as a reporter. The symbiote sees Spider-Man as a bad guy, because Spidey rejected its efforts to bond with it. So both of them together see Parker as the bad guy with them as the wronged party. Venom always operated with a sort of code. He was aware of who Aunt May and Mary Jane were, but he never attacked them directly, he even helped May fold her laundry once.

Carnage has no moral code. He just likes to kill people.

 

[ernesth100]

Which is why I like Carnages character. You know if they do symbiote movies. They should all be released on Halloween or sometime in October so they can get away with a darker tone.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Brock sees Parker as a bad guy, because Parker was responsible for getting him fired from the Bugle and ruining his career as a reporter. The symbiote sees Spider-Man as a bad guy, because Spidey rejected its efforts to bond with it. So both of them together see Parker as the bad guy with them as the wronged party. Venom always operated with a sort of code. He was aware of who Aunt May and Mary Jane were, but he never attacked them directly, he even helped May fold her laundry once.

Carnage has no moral code. He just likes to kill people.

That is exactly why Carnage is better. Look at Venom.

When I see that, I think of this:

The last thing I want to see is someone who looks like that and I see like that helping people like so:

I mean you got one of the scariest looking villains. I mean Venom really looks like the comic book equivalent to a Xenomorph but the problem is you give him this genetic as backstory of wanting revenge. You can only do that in so many stories.

Venom is really the equivalent to Hush from Batman. Hush is motivated by revenge like Venom. The difference with Hush and Venom is Hush is a mastermind. He has the intelligence and money to hire villains to work for him.

You said he won't attack Aunt May and Mary Jane. That's the problem and why Hush went from being Venom like to better.

In Heart of Hush, he decided not to attack Bruce physically. He attack the one woman he loves and literally steals her heart.

He does this because he wants to her Bruce in the worst way possible.

And if that wasn't enough in the story; we learn that Hush, who was a brilliant surgeon, performed plastic surgery on his own face to look just like Bruce Wayne.

In Batman Eternal, Hush went to Wayne Manor and attacked Alfred by injecting some of Scarecrow's fear gas straight into Alfred's brain which made Batman decide to put him in a coma.

I mean again, Venom is something out of a horror film and they never kept going with the horror film direction for Venom as a character. It's like they aren't afraid to get their hands dirty.

It's also why Carnage is better. He is everything Venom should be. He is the stuff of nightmares. He's a serial killed mixed with alien goop and looks like something out of a sci-fi horror. That's scary.

He also doesn't want revenge or have a vendetta against Parker which makes him even greater and more dangerous because he isn't just striking Peter's family but anyone who he finds.

 

[ernesth100]

Well be any opinions here are two facts.1. They are going to do the symbiote's.
2. Venom will appear.


There is no denying that now that Spider-Man is in the MCU.

 

[CaptainWagner]

You're right that Eddie is more interesting than Cletus, but Carnage *could* be done well. It really comes down to whether Marvel commits fully to his dark motivations.

Think about the Joker's motivation in The Dark Knight: chaos and proving that he can make others act like him. On paper, that's lame, but the execution made it a thing of beauty. Carnage has a similar motivation, only a different modus operandi. He enjoys the closeness of killing and the simple brutality of it. He thinks society is a façade and morality is a myth, but freedom can be achieved through bloodshed and chaos. He would be a stark contrast to any villain we've seen in the MCU or the Spidey movies.

This is exactly why I have always been a defender of Carnage. He has huge amounts of potential if used properly.

 

[DOBSON10]

Venom and Carnage are my favorite Spiderman villains, so yes, for me it's a must to see the symbiote storyline. I agree with most people that Eddie Brock should be built up for at least one movie before he takes on the role of Venom. I also like the Infinity Wars angle, where Spiderman comes into contact with the symbiote in space. I would also have hints to Cletus Kassady, the serial killer, on the loose (Daily Bugle articles, news cast stories, maybe some scenes of him killing people) as a lead up to him becoming Carnage. Both characters should have at least some fleshing out in a previous movie before they become Venom/Carnage.

 

[The Joker]

I don't think Joker and Carnage are comparable. Joker's character went a lot further than chaos and trying to push people to insanity. Not to mention Joker did it to prove a point about himself and everyone else. That deep down everyone is no different than he is when push comes to shove. That's taken from Joker's most famous and popular story, The Killing Joke;

That was not all he did in TDK. Joker took over the Gotham underworld. He burned all their money to prove a point. Joker toyed with Batman, and tested his mettle. He formed a twisted obsession with Batman to the point where he didn't want to kill him because challenging him was just too much fun. Joker plays sadistic games, like making Batman choose between saving Rachel and Harvey Dent, and then ends up tricking him anyway.

Where is this kind of deep character potential in Carnage? All he does is kill people. Random slaughter. He has no interesting relationship with Spider-Man. He has no aspirations beyond just killing. Look at his most famous story, Maximum Carnage. 12 straight issues of Carnage and his little psycho gang just wandering around NY killing randomly. He's as shallow as a puddle in the Sahara desert. He's more comparable to Zsasz than he is to the Joker. Zsasz thinks he's doing humanity a service killing them because he thinks he's freeing them from the misery of their existence.

I'd take Carnage over Venom any day because I can buy Kasady as a character, and why he does what he does. Not to mention he is much more fun, and more scary than Venom. Carnage is what he is, and Marvel don't pretend he's anything more, or even try to elevate him to anything more. Which is why he works. He stays within the boundaries of his character.

Btw LEVI, that's an awesome post

 

[ernesth100]

Imagine if Marvel's Carnage turns out like the one in the 90's Series?

 

[CaptainWagner]

While Carnage has never been used to that extent, I think he has the groundwork to tell deeper stories, when a writer examines what makes him the way he is and how he views the rest of the world.

 

[The Joker]

I think the Joker himself summed it up best when they did that Batman/Spider-Man crossover;

Joker is the Orson Welles of crime. Carnage is David Hasselhoff You can't compare the two.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Wait, Carnage is Nick Fury?!? I'm so confused right now!

 

[The Joker]

Wait, Carnage is Nick Fury?!? I'm so confused right now!

I forgot he played Fury. I think I mentally blocked out that there was any Nick Fury before Samuel L. Jackson.