The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - Part 133

[Eggyman]

Because the nitpicking is becoming pathetic.

Take TDK for example. After Joker throws Rachel out of the window, we don't see where he goes. Shouldn't he have stayed and continued looking for Harvey? A cursory search would have located Dent in the closet/armoire.

The way people are reacting to TDKR, if you applied that nitpicking to TDK you'd also have a lot of unhappy campers, plot holes, etc.

I love both movies but it's sad how this forum is turning into a mob against TDKR. A month ago it was the mob against the idea that Blake the cop could be more than just Blake the cop. A week ago it was the mob against negative reviews.

Get my drift? People are trying so hard to jump on the negativity bandwagon that they're complaining about things which are so trivial, and many complaints are not very rational. There are valid criticisms, but I'd urge people to go watch TDK with the same level of nitpicking.

The scene you mentioned in TDK has been discussed many times on here. We are giving TDKR the same treatment. There's nothing unfair going on.

 

[Vengeance of Bane]

How do you guys feel about the way Ra's' return was handled in the movie? It took me by surprise in terms of the manner (ghost?) he appeared.

 

[akfj]

Time will be kind to this movie.

I think it will be more appreciated in years to come.

It annoys when people consider 'plot holes' to be moments that we really just don't need to see. Things you could figure out or inform in your own mind, and either way the story isn't affected.

For instance, people are like, "How the **** did Bruce get back to Gotham?!" And my response is...who cares? It's not important to the story. We didn't NEED to see it or have it spelled out for us.

Right, he managed to find a way to get back to Gotham. That's all you need to know.

 

[Cannikin]

By the way, if the Bat was destroyed in the nuke, how did Fox know that Bruce had fixed the autopilot?

Spoiler

When they were examining the prototype back at R&D and noticed the software had been patched by Bruce Wayne.

 

[venus_ice]

I think the tragedy that happened last Friday sucked some energy and excitement from people. You can just imagine how it is for the cast and crew. It's like reliving the TDK Heath days again... I read they canceled all the premieres and press (rightfully so).

Did they really cancel all the press? I thought it was just being discussed.

 

[kvz5]

Did they really cancel all the press? I thought it was just being discussed.

They did. Paris premiere and press junket yesterday were canceled. Also the Mexico and Japan premiere next week. I guess no more press for the cast.

 

[Art Damage]

Because the nitpicking is becoming pathetic.

Take TDK for example. After Joker throws Rachel out of the window, we don't see where he goes. Shouldn't he have stayed and continued looking for Harvey? A cursory search would have located Dent in the closet/armoire.

The way people are reacting to TDKR, if you applied that nitpicking to TDK you'd also have a lot of unhappy campers, plot holes, etc.

I love both movies but it's sad how this forum is turning into a mob against TDKR. A month ago it was the mob against the idea that Blake the cop could be more than just Blake the cop. A week ago it was the mob against negative reviews.

Get my drift? People are trying so hard to jump on the negativity bandwagon that they're complaining about things which are so trivial, and many complaints are not very rational. There are valid criticisms, but I'd urge people to go watch TDK with the same level of nitpicking.

Yeah people are nitpicking the bejesus out of this movie, in TDK I always wanted to know how long Gordon faked his own death and why no one really knew what was going on with that...but no one seemed to care and it STILL doesn't bother me.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Did they really cancel all the press? I thought it was just being discussed.

Yeah they cancelled press/premiere in Paris over the weekend, WB won't be reporting on the box office all weekend and removing TV ads so they can edit gun references in them, etc...

But I don't know how they go forward from here.

 

[kvz5]

Thats it... I got chills.

Another thing is, did anyone notice Christian Bale's facial reactions in the movie... his mouth and chin were working over time in that mask.

When Bane was walking up to him he was all, ''ARRRGGHHAHHHH!!''. He did a good job of emoting under the cowl in this one.

I love how angry he is at the fights. The way he was screaming and grunting. That added a lot to the intensity of the fight scenes.

 

[Mr.?]

People want everything explained down to the smallest detail nowadays. what ever happened to imagination?

 

[Cannikin]

I've been in arguments with people on news sites about TDKR's gratuitous violence, but in my opinion, Nolan went WAY out of his way to NOT show anything gratuitous. Foley's fate, for example, took place completely off screen despite what others saw happen on location.

 

[georgec]

It annoys when people consider 'plot holes' to be moments that we really just don't need to see. Things you could figure out or inform in your own mind, and either way the story isn't affected.

For instance, people are like, "How the **** did Bruce get back to Gotham?!" And my response is...who cares? It's not important to the story. We didn't NEED to see it or have it spelled out for us.

Yup. Most of the time the words "plot hole" are used inaccurately.

Because TDK was such a revelation to watch, most people didn't pay much attention to the flaws. But since TDKR isn't the same leap above TDK that TDK was above BB, people are just looking for every reason to rationalize their disappointment. And I think much of that disappointment stems from unreasonable expectations of having that same leap I mentioned.

 

[venus_ice]

They did. Paris premiere and press junket yesterday were canceled. Also the Mexico and Japan premiere next week. I guess no more press for the cast.

Wow, I think that's sad but fitting. I can't imagine how Nolan is handling this.

 

[Vengeance of Bane]

I love how angry he is at the fights. The way he was screaming and grunting. That added a lot to the intensity of the fight scenes.

Also the fact that there wasn't any music made it a lot more intense and I was really surprised by the sheer brutality of Bane. They really pushed the rating here IMO.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I love how angry he is at the fights. The way he was screaming and grunting. That added a lot to the intensity of the fight scenes.

It's tricky... it could have come off really cheesy and over the top. But Christian Bale made it work.

A young kid, dressed up as Batman, was actually crying during this scene in my cinema.

 

[Vengeance of Bane]

Wow, I think that's sad but fitting. I can't imagine how Nolan is handling this.

I'm glad that the media hasn't been blaming the movies for what happened. In my country at least the focus hasn't been on what movie was showing but rather on the victims and trying to understand why this happened.

 

[venus_ice]

I agree about the rating. Lots of violence and neck snapping.

Spoiler

The bodies of the special forces hanging shocked me the most. Even though TDK had a dead body hanging IDK. I guess I was reaallllyyyyy into it

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

Shape,

My issues with the movie weren't the plot holes so much as the way dialogue replaced action and emotion. There was far too much tell and not enough show, character-wise. And I felt the movie focused too heavily on Blake.


Those are issues TDK had as well, but it was slick enough (and surprising enough in spots) to overcome it.

As for plot holes in TDKR, I'm not one of those folks that normally worry with them. The Joker at the Party scene in TDK isn't a plot hole to me. Neither is the Bruce gets from India back to Gotham in TDKR.

(Though I think ending the scene in TDK with saving Rachel kind of leaves me wanting something else. I don't think it sufficiently closes it out. It's one of the times Nolan's polish and faculty with score smooth over a hard edit)

In TDKR, I'd say that Dagget's reasoning for bringing in Bane is kind of dodgy. And the willingness with which Gotham buys into Bane's "truth about Dent" is weak.

But on that last one, my issues aren't the believability- it's what they say about the inherent goodness or evil of the town.

Mainly my complaints come down to dialogue driving things too much and Blake.

The Gordon death fakeout in TDK was totally illogical, but I still like that movie. Meanwhile, in TDKR, Foley's dismissal of Gordon is more of the same manufactured drama, but it drags things down unnecessarily.

 

[The Guard]

I don't see negativity reactions to this film. I see people recognizing that this film isn't quite the balanced effort it needed to be.

I don't see massive nitpicking, and I think some of you don't understand the difference between nitpicks, and overt filmmaking flaws, and general discussion of concepts.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

Shape,

My issues with the movie weren't the plot holes so much as the way dialogue replaced action and emotion. There was far too much tell and not enough show, character-wise.

A million times, this. This movie was so exposition heavy.

 

[Vengeance of Bane]

I agree about the rating. Lots of violence and neck snapping.

Spoiler

The bodies of the special forces hanging shocked me the most. Even though TDK had a dead body hanging IDK. I guess I was reaallllyyyyy into it

That was awesome. t:

 

[Octoberist]

Because the nitpicking is becoming pathetic.

Take TDK for example. After Joker throws Rachel out of the window, we don't see where he goes. Shouldn't he have stayed and continued looking for Harvey? A cursory search would have located Dent in the closet/armoire.

The way people are reacting to TDKR, if you applied that nitpicking to TDK you'd also have a lot of unhappy campers, plot holes, etc.

I love both movies but it's sad how this forum is turning into a mob against TDKR. A month ago it was the mob against the idea that Blake the cop could be more than just Blake the cop. A week ago it was the mob against negative reviews.

Get my drift? People are trying so hard to jump on the negativity bandwagon that they're complaining about things which are so trivial, and many complaints are not very rational. There are valid criticisms, but I'd urge people to go watch TDK with the same level of nitpicking.

I agree that it's nitpicking. I do think however, TDK is a tighter paced movie with clearer ideas than TDKR. Plus it's funner in tone.

TDKR's nitpicks aside, I think there's narrative problems and they stick out more because it feels kinda sloppy. I like TDKR for sure, and I need to see it again, but to me it's the Return of the Jedi of the Dark Knight series.

 

[Eggyman]

Yup. Most of the time the words "plot hole" are used inaccurately.

Because TDK was such a revelation to watch, most people didn't pay much attention to the flaws. But since TDKR isn't the same leap above TDK that TDK was above BB, people are just looking for every reason to rationalize their disappointment. And I think much of that disappointment stems from unreasonable expectations of having that same leap I mentioned.

So you're actually rationalizing too. The problems of TDK have been debated over and over. People will find problems. There are problems. I never really have a problem with plot holes, but if I do have an opinion, positive or negative, this is the place I bring it. Having someone find alternate reasons for why I didn't enjoy something just makes me feel like I'm wasting my time.

 

[Mr.?]

I love how angry he is at the fights. The way he was screaming and grunting. That added a lot to the intensity of the fight scenes.

I think that also adds to the idea that he was in intense physical pain while he was fighting.

 

[kvz5]

I think that also adds to the idea that he was in intense physical pain while he was fighting.

Oh yeah... Because he has that [blackout]leg brace thing[/blackout] too.