Far From Home The Uncle Ben Problem

[UltimateWebhead]

Theres a fundamental difference between Spiderman and Batman backgrounds, environment and age that make the comparison not really hold up. Spiderman can have a mentor because he's a teen that got superpowers. Batman cant because he's an adult that already went through mentors and training.

I'm well aware of the difference between Peter and Bruce.

Read my post again. In my example, the JL exists before we are introduced to Batman. So, the filmmakers decide to change up the story and have Hal be a mentor to Bruce. The point I'm trying to make, is fitting the character into a universe in that way, would cause fans of the character to be upset.

And you're proving that correct because you keep arguing how that's just not Batman.

 

[Frodo]

I'm personally okay with the Uncle Ben situation in the MCU. Had we not had 2 prior versions in close succession may opinion would probably be different , but that's not the reality. I can see why there are fans who have an issue with it, but I didn't.

I really didn't want to see the origin redone all over again . The nods to Ben were enough for me . Now that doesn't mean we couldn't get a flashback to Ben and/or what happened in a film down the line in Holland's 3rd solo film, but at this point , I don't see it as a priority as far as Marvel and Sony are concerned.

Its sort of the same predicament the Osborns are in as well given that they were also used to the hilt in the two Sony prior versions. While it would be desirable to bring them into the MCU right away and establish them , I could see Marvel and Sony being a bit iffy about going back to that well anytime soon even though they are major parts of the Spiderman myths.

 

[Detective Conan]

I'm well aware of the difference between Peter and Bruce.

Read my post again. In my example, the JL exists before we are introduced to Batman. So, the filmmakers decide to change up the story and have Hal be a mentor to Bruce. The point I'm trying to make, is fitting the character into a universe in that way, would cause fans of the character to be upset.

And you're proving that correct because you keep arguing how that's just not Batman.

I get your point but I would subjectively argue that it works with Spider-Man better than it would work for Batman since Spider-Man started off as a kid superhero while Batman always started off as fully trained adult superhero. Spider-Man's character has always been intrinsically more a coming age story than Batman so I think it works with Spider-Man in a way I'm not sure creatively it would work that well with Bats as the nature of the two character's are wholly different. I think that's essentially what Invader Joker was getting at.

The way the MCU introduces Spider-Man as a poor wet-behind-the-ears superhero kid from queens is not only true to the comics, but also is the type of character more naturally suited to being mentored by another superhero as opposed to Batman who is generally a rich and experienced adult vigilante -- he doesn't have much to learn like Peter has. Now I know your overall point is that people would be just as outraged if they did the same thing with Batman as they're doing with Peter but I don't know if it would make as much creative sense to do that with Batman as it does, imo.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I get your point but I would subjectively argue that it works with Spider-Man better than it would work for Batman since Spider-Man started off as a kid superhero while Batman always started off as fully trained adult superhero. Spider-Man's character has always been intrinsically more a coming age story than Batman so I think it works with Spider-Man in a way I'm not sure creatively it would work that well with Bats as the nature of the two character's are wholly different. I think that's essentially what Invader Joker was getting at.

The way the MCU introduces Spider-Man as a poor wet-behind-the-ears superhero kid from queens is not only true to the comics, but also is the type of character more naturally suited to being mentored by another superhero as opposed to Batman who is generally a rich and experienced adult vigilante -- he doesn't have much to learn like Peter has. Now I know your overall point is that people would be just as outraged if they did the same thing with Batman as they're doing with Peter but I don't know if it would make as much creative sense to do that with Batman as it does, imo.

Creatively speaking I'm not sure if the example I provided makes the most sense or would work out how I'm setting it up. It's because I'm not well read or educated with DC. So, it might make more sense to have Clark be a mentor to Bruce than say Hal. But Hal was the first character to pop in my head so I went with it.

Yes, I understand how having a mentor is something that would probably be better served for Peter rather than Bruce but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen in this instance. It'd be weird to have the JL exist prior to Batman but for the sake of argument let's say it was something similar to the MCU where with regard to Spider-Man it came down to a deal being struck to get around the rights issue. Regardless, the point I'm trying to make isn't that Bruce has a mentor. It's that in this example the importance of his parents death/legacy has been pushed to the side and that importance has been placed upon Hal or Clark or whoever. Someone that Bruce now looks up to. Mentor, surrogate, whatever. He looks up to him and he provides the motivation for Bruce to continue being Batman. That's more or less what I was getting at and that is what I don't really like about this iteration of Spider-Man.

I've no problem with Tony being a mentor to Peter as I've said before. In this universe it makes sense. But imo it feels like they've undermined the lessons, motivation and responsibility that Peter got from his Uncle.

Comic Peter was also a teenager that was inexperienced in the ways of being a hero. But he also never needed a mentor either. Peter made mistakes along the way and that's just part of the learning curve however he was extremely capable, intelligent, resourceful, etc.

 

[Shikamaru]

I will say that in spite of the trailer, I'm not worried about Uncle Ben not being brought up. Based on what I read from Watts, he strikes me as the kind of guy to know the importance of Uncle Ben.

Tony 's death is also the best opportunity to bring him up. That's the other side fans have to consider. After Homecoming I remember thinking "Wait, so if you didn't bring him up in here, how are you gonna bring him up in a way that is natural?" Peter Dealing with the loss of another father figure is the best way to bring up Uncle Ben at this point.

Lastly, we should all remember the marketing is done by Sony, not Marvel. This is the same studio that marketed the last film as an Iron Man/Spider-Man buddy team-up...the literal opposite of what it was. I don't think Sony trailers are to be trusted. Hell, I don't even think Sony can explain in words whatever character arc Peter has in this. I get the sense Marvel writes the stories and Sony understands them about as much as Zack Snyder understands Watchmen. I look at the Iron Man parts in their trailer and go "Eh, nothing to see here."

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I agree that Tony's death is a great opportunity to bring up Ben. I hope they utilize that and explore how that loss has affected Peter. It'd be an organic way to show the importance of Ben and his legacy without redoing an origin. And imo it not only strengthens Peter as a character but helps with the relatability.

 

[SpeterMan3]

I will say that in spite of the trailer, I'm not worried about Uncle Ben not being brought up. Based on what I read from Watts, he strikes me as the kind of guy to know the importance of Uncle Ben.

Tony 's death is also the best opportunity to bring him up. That's the other side fans have to consider. After Homecoming I remember thinking "Wait, so if you didn't bring him up in here, how are you gonna bring him up in a way that is natural?" Peter Dealing with the loss of another father figure is the best way to bring up Uncle Ben at this point.

Lastly, we should all remember the marketing is done by Sony, not Marvel. This is the same studio that marketed the last film as an Iron Man/Spider-Man buddy team-up...the literal opposite of what it was. I don't think Sony trailers are to be trusted. Hell, I don't even think Sony can explain in words whatever character arc Peter has in this. I get the sense Marvel writes the stories and Sony understands them about as much as Zack Snyder understands Watchmen. I look at the Iron Man parts in their trailer and go "Eh, nothing to see here."

 

[Detective Conan]

Can I ask you guys who’d you want to see play MCU Ben? Tim Daly and George Clooney are choices that come to mind. Was thinking about making a thread but I kind of decided it simply isn’t worth making a thread about the casting choices for a deceased character.

 

[fan4stic]

Can I ask you guys who’d you want to see play MCU Ben? Tim Daly and George Clooney are choices that come to mind. Was thinking about making a thread but I kind of decided it simply isn’t worth making a thread about the casting choices for a deceased character.

I'd prefer David Harbour in

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I'm still on the Tom Hanks train. But... I would be open to Harbour. Would make sense if Ben is in a flashback for him to be markedly younger I suppose.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I really doubt Ben will be cast for the MCU. The difference between Ben and Tony is that we have seen his progression with tony for 4 movie. While we seen nothing off Ben. So he wont carry the same weight as Tonys legacy. Which means if they will probably focus on tony absence as a driving force for the movie.

There could be another passing reference to Ben perhaps, like with the suitcase. But even May doesn't seem that held back by Bens death... so whats the chance they will use Tonys absence as an excuse to act like Ben suddenly is super important now?

I do think fans may be creating more emotional movie opportunities then what the film makers actually are.

 

[fan4stic]

I'm still on the Tom Hanks train. But... I would be open to Harbour. Would make sense if Ben is in a flashback for him to be markedly younger I suppose.

I saw a video once where someone talked about a potential parallel between Toomes and Ben, in the idea of Ben maybe being a blue collar working guy. And I personally got attached to that idea. I think Harbour fits that in vibe and look kinda. Like maybe he worked as an electrician or construction or something.

 

[Shikamaru]

I really doubt Ben will be cast for the MCU. The difference between Ben and Tony is that we have seen his progression with tony for 4 movie. While we seen nothing off Ben. So he wont carry the same weight as Tonys legacy. Which means if they will probably focus on tony absence as a driving force for the movie.

There could be another passing reference to Ben perhaps, like with the suitcase. But even May doesn't seem that held back by Bens death... so whats the chance they will use Tonys absence as an excuse to act like Ben suddenly is super important now?

I do think fans may be creating more emotional movie opportunities then what the film makers actually are.

I think Watts and the Russos also have different interpretations of Peter and Tony's relationship. Peter and Tony have more of a father-and-son dynamic in Civil War and Avengers but I wouldn't say the same about Homecoming. They still respect one another but it's a more antagonistic relationship. Tony is more condescending towards him and Peter learns they're more different than he originally thought they were.

I think we'll see a return to "student rebelling against the adults" Spidey in FFH. He's already shrugging off Nick Fury in the trailers.

 

[Dark Raven]

We never see superheroes go to the bathroom either so they must be walking around with crap in their costumes.

Iron Man had a urine filtration system in his armour in Iron Man 2.

It's not just the fact they didn't mention Uncle Ben that's a problem. It's the fact they didn't mention him in situations he would naturally come up.

When May saw the breaking news of the Avengers robbers, she talked about the crime in Queens as if she wasn't a victim of it. She also warned Peter to stay safe. They lost Uncle Ben less than a year ago by that point. It would have naturally come up.

Later May wants to know why Peter's so stressed and sneaks out at night. The most obvious assumption is he's still coping with his uncle's death. It's a basic parenting skill to be able to figure that out.

Tony's death is another instance where Uncle Ben would naturally come up. There's no way it wouldn't when it's another death of a father figure that inspired your superhero work. Especially if Peter is still in high school, which means Ben's death wasn't that long ago.

The PS4 game is a perfect example. It's nowhere near being an origin story or rehash, but Uncle Ben still comes up wherever it's natural. Pretending not to know the difference between that and a rehash is just you creating a strawman.

Didn't May also suggest that Peter get out there and date in Homecoming? You might wonder whether she also thinks she should be dating again, especially since she seems young enough to have another relationship. I don't know how old Aunt May is meant to be in the MCU and whether she's playing her actual age or younger.

In Homecoming, when Tony Stark kept making comments about how attractive Aunt May was, Peter could also have brought up how she's still dealing with the loss of her husband and his uncle.

And in Endgame when

Spoiler

Tony died at the end, Peter could've also said that he can't lose Tony as well. That he's already lost one father figure not long ago, and he doesn't want to lose another.

Can I ask you guys who’d you want to see play MCU Ben? Tim Daly and George Clooney are choices that come to mind. Was thinking about making a thread but I kind of decided it simply isn’t worth making a thread about the casting choices for a deceased character.

If Tim Daly were in the MCU, I would've preferred to have him as Reed Richards. He's probably too old for that role now, but had he been younger he would've been ideal. He sounds very intelligent, plays a professor/lecturer type in Madam Secretary and also is a man of action with a Superman-type voice.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Nathan Fillion for MCU uncle ben.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I think we'll see a return to "student rebelling against the adults" Spidey in FFH. He's already shrugging off Nick Fury in the trailers.

Well what is there to rebel against? Peter rebelled against Tony because he wanted to prove himself. this time its more oh peter wants to go on holiday but nick fury is telling him he has to be the next iron man ect ect. so its ore nick putting him in danger when he just wants to chill, which is kinda the opposite to Homecoming.

You could argue he will rebel against the idea of "being the next iron man" but then that would be disrespectful to Tonys legacy for the idea to go against that

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Nathan Fillion for MCU uncle ben.

They vot him as Simon Williams in background in jokes in GOTG2 which never really made it onto screen really. So... I wouldn't mind. That's kinda brilliant casting.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Thanks, Fillion is so likeable it would be gut wrenching to see him have to die as uncle Ben imo. Not that we need to see him die again.

 

[Shikamaru]

I don't think we'll see the origin, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see Peter interact with Uncle Ben in this. Mysterio is a master of illusion, after all.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Lets be honest. if its an allusion of anyone it would be Tony.

Infact i wouldn't be shocked if RDJ had a cameo in this movie. might explain why the movie is still part of Phase 3.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

The way I see it, uncle ben's death not only showed Peter, "When you can do the things that I can, but you don't, and then the bad things happen? They happen because of you." But it also left a hole in his life that he tried to fill with Stark.

So now he feels the weight of Uncle Ben's death on his shoulders while trying to fill the shoes of Iron Man. Seems like it's working pretty well if you ask me.


I'd be open to a ruse by Chameleon or Mysterio though. That'd be clever. And if I were to choose someone to play Ben, for sure it would be Tobey Maguire.

 

[BringMeThanos]

Oh god please don't go over the Uncle Ben thing again on the movie screen. I think Feige/Disney has the common sense to know most people don't want to see it again and are taking a different approach. Thank god.

 

[Arachnerd]

Oh god please don't go over the Uncle Ben thing again on the movie screen. I think Feige/Disney has the common sense to know most people don't want to see it again and are taking a different approach. Thank god.

For the love of god, the continued level of complete misunderstanding still astonishes me.

People who want Uncle Ben to be acknowledged in some way (more direct than the previous vague mentions) don't want to see the origin again. Just at least one clear mention of the person who's shaped Peter's philosophy and is a big part of the Spider-Man mythos. No more, no less.

 

[MaceB]

I could completely go without any references, and I'd be totally okay, to be honest. As a fan, there have already been enough hints to suffice.

Could we use more? Sure. Couldn't hurt. I wouldn't say, 'no.'

But I would say 'no' on a full re-exploration of what happened to Ben. We don't need a reenactment of what happened or a lot of dialogue with Uncle Ben, IMO. As a Mysterio illusion....okay.. that could be cool, but basically no.

 

[Dark Raven]

Just make it like the 70s Spider-Man TV show and make no reference to Uncle Ben whatsoever. Then bring back the funky theme tune!