The Walking Dead The Walking Dead Season 6, Episode 13 "The Same Boat" Discussion Thread

[Heretic]

Someone breaking down after successfully defending the town is not the same as setting up the story.

Daryl is ALSO going through this. Michonne was showing signs of maybe going through it. Morgan is in the middle of it. Glenn just killed someone for the first time, so he is ripe to go through it. But hey...sure...throw Carol into that story as well. Might as well do the same thing with her that is being done with the rest of the cast.

 

[Heretic]

Oh yeah...Maggie ended the episode saying that she cant do this anymore...so...count her in as well.

 

[Leenie]

Someone breaking down after successfully defending the town is not the same as setting up the story.

Daryl is ALSO going through this. Michonne was showing signs of maybe going through it. Morgan is in the middle of it. Glenn just killed someone for the first time, so he is ripe to go through it. But hey...sure...throw Carol into that story as well. Might as well do the same thing with her that is being done with the rest of the cast.

I guess soldiers can't break down if they make it back home from the battlefield, either. Hey, everyone, let's feel GOOD about constant war and chaos! It was a character moment that definitely ties into what's happening now. Why else would they show that?

Daryl's character has become pretty stagnant to me since Merle died. He's just Rick's BFF now. I think he's pretty boring.

Michonne's struggle was more about "Lone Wolf" act rather than it being about her killing people. She closed off to the world because she was afraid of becoming attached to anyone again; then she realized that wasn't a way to live. Her only real "killing-related" story arc has been her seeking revenge for the Governor (which really didn't make much sense in the series, if you want my honest opinion).

Morgan is in the middle of it, but in a different way. If Morgan had been captured with Maggie, I think Maggie would have been screwed. Those Saviors would still be alive. Carol at least made sure the rest of them were killed.

Glenn just made his first kill. Okay. Yeah, it was hard for him to do because it was his first kill. He seems a lot more put together about his experience than Maggie was about hers tonight.

This series is about the constant struggle about who the real monsters are. It's a constant, running theme in The Walking Dead.

 

[Heretic]

No...OF COURSE soldiers can break down after a battle. YOU are the one claiming that this is a sign of a major shift for the character.

Daryl is in the middle of a "lets not kill" arc. He was inspired by the Alexandrians to go looking for other people...so he was weak and trusted those people who ended up stealing his stuff. Yes...he then blew up Neegan's crew when he had no choice. Later, he kept endangering his own life and the supplies they found by not killing Jesus. But you know what...lets not get into that. Rick and Daryl's refusal to kill Jesus showed them to be incredibly weak individuals who couldn't get the job done. But...you know...these character traits tend to come and go as the story needs them to.

Yes, this is a constant theme...and it has gotten pretty annoying. It becomes especially annoying when they flip characters that were previously cool. Morgan is probably the most hated character on the show now...something no one would have thought possible during the years when people begged them to bring him back.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I guess soldiers can't break down if they make it back home from the battlefield, either. Hey, everyone, let's feel GOOD about constant war and chaos! .

Even Rambo broke down. Any character with a modicum of conscience should only sustain the killing machine mentality for a certain period of time.

 

[Leenie]

Even Rambo broke down. Any character with a modicum of conscience should only sustain the killing machine mentality for a certain period of time.

Exactly. So why can't Carol break down? Why can't Carol hate what she's had to do? This stuff takes a toll on people who have to do it at all, let alone for a prolonged period of time (with no end in sight).

 

[Leenie]

No...OF COURSE soldiers can break down after a battle. YOU are the one claiming that this is a sign of a major shift for the character.

Daryl is in the middle of a "lets not kill" arc. He was inspired by the Alexandrians to go looking for other people...so he was weak and trusted those people who ended up stealing his stuff. Yes...he then blew up Neegan's crew when he had no choice. Later, he kept endangering his own life and the supplies they found by not killing Jesus. But you know what...lets not get into that. Rick and Daryl's refusal to kill Jesus showed them to be incredibly weak individuals who couldn't get the job done. But...you know...these character traits tend to come and go as the story needs them to.

Yes, this is a constant theme...and it has gotten pretty annoying. It becomes especially annoying when they flip characters that were previously cool. Morgan is probably the most hated character on the show now...something no one would have thought possible during the years when people begged them to bring him back.

I'm not saying it was a character shift. Carol has been acting like that for a LONG time now (since way before she killed the Wolves; I'm just saying that even during her badass moments, she's had to take a moment to herself to break down). She has not enjoyed killing at all, and she's held most of the things she's gone through to herself. There's only so much a person can take before they crack.

This is why the current character arc she's going through makes perfect sense to me.

And if the whole "human vs. monster" thing is tiresome for you, then might I suggest a different series? Because that's never going to end with The Walking Dead, whether it's the comics, video games, or the show.

 

[The Joker]

Great episode. A good character driven one.

Carol's conscience finally caught up with her, and that is a good thing to me, because after how Carol treated Sam (and he lost his life because of how she traumatized him), I was starting to think Carol was losing her humanity. When push came to shove, she still did what she had to do. We all love bad ass Carol, but it's nice to see this has finally taken some kind of toll on her.

Maggie was great, too. Even pregnant she can kick ass. The Saviors have lost A LOT of people now. Negan must have an army if he is still a threat after losing this many people.

 

[Broseph44]

Negan is gonna flip his ****.

 

[roach]

I think Maggie and Carol fought their cracked mirror selves. Paula seemed like she was just like Carol but toughened way early. Maggie saw in 'Chelle someone who lost a father and who got pregnant.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Exactly. So why can't Carol break down? Why can't Carol hate what she's had to do? This stuff takes a toll on people who have to do it at all, let alone for a prolonged period of time (with no end in sight).

We saw her baking cookies and being maternal last week. Alexandria has given her some short periods of pre-outbreak normality, and it seems like she's longing for the calmness of the old world.

 

[Leenie]

Great episode. A good character driven one.

Carol's conscience finally caught up with her, and that is a good thing to me, because after how Carol treated Sam (and he lost his life because of how she traumatized him), I was starting to think Carol was losing her humanity. When push came to shove, she still did what she had to do. We all love bad ass Carol, but it's nice to see this has finally taken some kind of toll on her.

Maggie was great, too. Even pregnant she can kick ass. The Saviors have lost A LOT of people now. Negan must have an army if he is still a threat after losing this many people.

I think that what happened with Sam wasn't just an attempt to scare him from tattling on her, but it was also a way to push him away (given her tragic track record as a motherly figure). Also, at that point, I think Carol thought it was best to scare him into toughening up (especially with what she said to him in the midseason finale). I think Sam's death hit Carol really hard because (a) it was another child lost, and (b) her method to prepare him for the walkers didn't work for him.

It also didn't work because Jesse was an idiot mother who literally shut him away from everything and then expected him to "pretend to be brave." But I digress. Either way, add Sam onto the list of things that Carol feels guilty and mournful about. Sam was an annoying character, but damn if I didn't say "aww" out loud when I saw that Carol left a cookie by his grave.

I love badass Carol as well. We definitely saw it tonight when she shot 'Chelle, in my opinion (don't mess with the family). Being a badass doesn't mean you can't be remorseful about what you've done (or what you've had to do). Even if it's something like self defense or war, I can't imagine feeling GOOD (or just plain feeling nothing) about taking a life. In tonight's episode, Carol saw herself in Paula and became downright terrified of what she could become if she kept this up. And given her history of being abused for a good chunk of her life BEFORE the apocalypse, it's obvious to me she doesn't want to become a psycho like her husband as well.

I like that they're showing this side of Carol right now. Nobody in this show is invincible. If Carol felt invincible in this world, she'd probably be acting like Negan. Her conscience is what's separating her from the likes of Negan; that doesn't mean she isn't a badass to me. Carol feels HUMAN to me.

 

[Leenie]

We saw her baking cookies and being maternal last week. Alexandria has given her some short periods of pre-outbreak normality, and it seems like she's longing for the calmness of the old world.

And that's ... Bad?

Most of her life has been a fight. You give the poor woman a little ounce of normalcy (among a group of people who appreciate her), of course she doesn't want things to go back to violence.

When Rick told her they were fighting again, it was like she was being deployed into battle again. Who in their right mind wants that?

 

[Elevator Man]

I think Maggie and Carol fought their cracked mirror selves. Paula seemed like she was just like Carol but toughened way early. Maggie saw in 'Chelle someone who lost a father and who got pregnant.

Yeah I saw a lot of parallels between them.

 

[Lantern Venom]

And that's ... Bad?

Most of her life has been a fight. You give the poor woman a little ounce of normalcy (among a group of people who appreciate her), of course she doesn't want things to go back to violence.

When Rick told her they were fighting again, it was like she was being deployed into battle again. Who in their right mind wants that?

Nope, it makes perfect sense to me. That's why we often see a similar theme in super hero comics/adaptations. There have been numerous stories where a hero has walked away for a time because he or she questions his or her role in the never-ending violence that characterizes his/her life.

 

[Leenie]

Nope, it makes perfect sense to me. That's why we often see a similar theme in super hero comics/adaptations. There have been numerous stories where a hero has walked away for a time because he or she questions his or her role in the never-ending violence that characterizes his/her life.

This is a pretty good explanation as to why I'm not worried about Carol "becoming a Morgan" right now. Not that I think she'll return to her previous ways 100%, but perhaps she will find a middle ground between Rick and Morgan's ways?

That, or I could see Negan becoming the shot of adrenaline that Carol needs to not bear such a big cross on her shoulders when she has to kill; that she will no longer worry about becoming someone like Paula, and that she is needed to keep the good people safe.

 

[Kane52630]

Great bottle episode.

Kimmy Schmidt was cray cray.

 

[Steyin]

The Saviors have lost A LOT of people now. Negan must have an army if he is still a threat after losing this many people.

I think the dead Savior count is at 38.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yeah, it makes me wonder how many people Negan actually has.

Also, since I don't think anyone answered me before... is the whole "We are all Negan" thing from the comics? Or is that something new for the TV show?

 

[The Joker]

That's new for the show. Comics never did that. I don't get why they would say it. Is it to protect Negan's identity I wonder. Make their enemies think Negan is a collective group.

 

[chamber-music]

I enjoyed watching carol and Maggie take these saviours out. Every good character on this show has had reflective moments and agonized over the morality of their choices.

 

[Rowsdower!]

That's new for the show. Comics never did that. I don't get why they would say it. Is it to protect Negan's identity I wonder. Make their enemies think Negan is a collective group.

I'm thinking it's more of a Hydra-type thing. Like, Negan probably understands that eventually, he's going to die, so he's grooming all his people to be his successors.

It looked like there were a bunch of photos in the compound in the previous episode that showed people with their heads bashed in. When I saw that, I figured it was Negan's handiwork, but now I wonder if that's something ALL of the Saviors do, since they're all Negan.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Another awesome episode, loved Carol and Maggie this episode, Carol sort of played the Saviours but actually showed remorse and even tried to show mercy towards Alicia's character.

Speaking of which she was a good 1 episode character. This season is certainly going out with a bang.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[Motown Marvel]

That's new for the show. Comics never did that. I don't get why they would say it. Is it to protect Negan's identity I wonder. Make their enemies think Negan is a collective group.

I would imagine the concept is just a way for Negan to manipulate loyalty from the Saviors. To imbue them with the group mentality that they are all Negan inspires and comforts them to believe their sacrifices and loyalty isn't just for one man, but for all of them. But really, it's just Negan brainwashing them to secure his own survival.