Homecoming The Zendaya is Mary Jane thread - Part 1

[NinjaTurtleFan]

They had to dye Leto's hair green to play the Joker...did it bother you that his natural hair wasn't green?

LOL! Wow.

First off, I don't understand why people get so uptight that some of us wanted a natural redhead for the part of Mary Jane (that is if who Zendaya is playing) or that her costume and the way she's described her character doesn't fit the mold or general idea of who MJ is, and that a lot of these characters in this film seem to be amalgamation of other characters and have been changed all because for some reason whether it be Queens or for the sake of looking progressive or all-inclusive, or to look like they were honoring the real Queens they had to change pre-existing characters to match those changing demographics and populace.

Second, it's the Joker. Of course, his hair is going to be dyed green. Even in the comics, he went from his natural hair color to it being chemically altered to green. I don't know if you saying that was to be funny or tongue-in-cheek, or something else, but come on, man... apples and oranges with that comment compared to Zendaya. Granted, yes, Dunst dyed her hair to red and Stone dyed her typically red hair to blonde for MJ and Gwen, but some of us were hoping that when the Marvel Studios got their hands on Spider-Man, we wouldn't be getting so many changes and the characters they were bringing in would at least look like or hold onto their individual personalities like in the comics. Now, it seems they're combining characters, personalities, and changing skin color all because they can.

As I said in another forum thread, it seems like this movie's motto is, "If it ain't broke, break it" and "If it worked in the past, change everything and anything."

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Stan's not really credible to be quite frank not when he's a spokesperson for all things marvel and usually given a producers credit.. he's also nearly blind and 93 .... in great health, but still. Stan doesn't have a negative bone in his body

He's praised everything from One More Day to the Fant4stic flop... and there's no doubt in my mind he'd praise a black peter parker and suddenly change his tune if a studio actually pulled it off... he may not feel that way entirely.. but he'd put on a good show about it. Lets also keep in mind he's again.. 93.. retiring from comic con circuits and also really hasn't considered these "his characters" since he left marvel

 

[obredaan]

yeah. that's not the point. Green hair does not exist in real life. so you HAVE to dye your hair green in order to get that color.

this is a better example.

Peter Parker has brown/dark hair. That's how he's traditionally been portrayed. That's his "classic" look.

Now, let's say, Homecoming Peter is actually blond. After the spider bit, he wants to change his look to go with his newfound powers. So, he dyes his hair brown. Now, he looks like classic Peter - how he's supposed to look. But, he had to achieve that look by dying his hair, instead of having that naturally.

Do you see that point?

If they actually did that to Peter, Spidey fans would probably call that so stupid and convoluted. They'd ask ( and rightfully so ) "Why not just make him a brunette from the start?"

Same question here. Why not just give MJ red hair from the start?

I'll wait to see the film before judging the decision but clearly Marvel are trying to do something different that won't feel like a rehash of what Sony has already done. I'm curious to see what Marvel has in store. As for hair color, I could care less. As long as Zendaya and Holland have chemistry together than that's all that really matters to me. Marvel has earned my trust when it comes to casting so I'll judge Zendaya's MJ on the portrayal rather than if she looks like the character in the comics.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

the "real" issue here is that the actual character seems to be changed.

Gunn himself nailed what the core of MJ's character should be - alpha female playfulness.

A playful alpha female does NOT dress down, all buttoned up like, looking all plain and frumpy and meh. That look and style of dress does not convey a playful alpha female type character.

A playful alpha female character also doesn't fit the following description: "quiet, super dry, awkward, head always in a book." That description is like the total opposite of playful alpha female.

Notice I didn't discuss the issue of race or skin color in any of that.

that's because all of the above would apply if MJ were white with red hair.

A plain, frumpy looking girl who's quiet, awkward, dry, and bookish does not fit the character type of a playful alpha female - regardless of her race or skin color.

that's the real issue here. the core, the spirit of the character, which everyone says is the most important, is seemingly being changed. and changed to the point where the character looks and feels unrecognizable, where her character type has been changed to almost the complete opposite.

But since Gunn is probably privy to what they're doing with Homecoming, shouldn't that alleviate those fears and we'll have get the alpha playful female by the end? The Jackpot reveal?

 

[obredaan]

LOL! Wow.

First off, I don't understand why people get so uptight that some of us wanted a natural redhead for the part of Mary Jane (that is if who Zendaya is playing) or that her costume and the way she's described her character doesn't fit the mold or general idea of who MJ is, and that a lot of these characters in this film seem to be amalgamation of other characters and have been changed all because for some reason whether it be Queens or for the sake of looking progressive or all-inclusive, or to look like they were honoring the real Queens they had to change pre-existing characters to match those changing demographics and populace.

Second, it's the Joker. Of course, his hair is going to be dyed green. Even in the comics, he went from his natural hair color to it being chemically altered to green. I don't know if you saying that was to be funny or tongue-in-cheek, or something else, but come on, man... apples and oranges with that comment compared to Zendaya. Granted, yes, Dunst dyed her hair to red and Stone dyed her typically red hair to blonde for MJ and Gwen, but some of us were hoping that when the Marvel Studios got their hands on Spider-Man, we wouldn't be getting so many changes and the characters they were bringing in would at least look like or hold onto their individual personalities like in the comics. Now, it seems they're combining characters, personalities, and changing skin color all because they can.

As I said in another forum thread, it seems like this movie's motto is, "If it ain't broke, break it" and "If it worked in the past, change everything and anything."

It was more tongue-in-cheek. I'm more concerned about how the character is integrated into the film and will their relationship be believable. For example, I have no issue with Lois Lane being a redhead in the DCEU but I have major issue with how poorly the character is written and the severe lack of chemistry between Amy and Henry. The main thing Marvel has to get right is the chemistry between the 2 actors. If they get that right than I can ignore the fact that MJ doesn't look exactly how she was designed in the comics.

 

[X Knight]

But since Gunn is probably privy to what they're doing with Homecoming, shouldn't that alleviate those fears and we'll have get the alpha playful female by the end? The Jackpot reveal?

that's an assumption.

unless I start hearing multiple leaks and reports that she will indeed transform into classic MJ by the end of the film, both in terms of looks and personality, I am basing my concerns on what I am seeing right now with the set pics and character descriptions. And what I'm seeing and hearing right now has me concerned.

for all we know, she may not transform by the end of the film.

Mayimbe said they "drop hints" she's MJ. he never said she would reveals herself as MJ by the end. that's what we are all assuming.

dropping hints suggest they may just tease it in the 1st film, and carry it on into the next film.

after all, the initial reports about Zendaya's casting suggested she would have a small part in film 1 that would expand into a bigger role later on.

 

[X Knight]

I'll wait to see the film before judging the decision but clearly Marvel are trying to do something different that won't feel like a rehash of what Sony has already done. I'm curious to see what Marvel has in store. As for hair color, I could care less. As long as Zendaya and Holland have chemistry together than that's all that really matters to me. Marvel has earned my trust when it comes to casting so I'll judge Zendaya's MJ on the portrayal rather than if she looks like the character in the comics.

It was more tongue-in-cheek. I'm more concerned about how the character is integrated into the film and will their relationship be believable. For example, I have no issue with Lois Lane being a redhead in the DCEU but I have major issue with how poorly the character is written and the severe lack of chemistry between Amy and Henry. The main thing Marvel has to get right is the chemistry between the 2 actors. If they get that right than I can ignore the fact that MJ doesn't look exactly how she was designed in the comics.

you have more faith in the process than I do and that's perfectly fair.

 

[Oscorp]

that's an assumption.

unless I start hearing multiple leaks and reports that she will indeed transform into classic MJ by the end of the film, both in terms of looks and personality, I am basing my concerns on what I am seeing right now with the set pics and character descriptions.

for all we know, she may not transform by the end of the film.

Mayimbe said they "drop hints" she's MJ. he never said she would reveals herself as MJ by the end. that's what we are all assuming.

dropping hints suggest they may just tease it in the 1st film, and carry it on into the next film.

after all, the initial reports about Zendaya's casting suggested she would have a small part in film 1 that would expand into a bigger role later on.

For all we know, she may not even be MJ.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I'll wait to see the film before judging the decision but clearly Marvel are trying to do something different that won't feel like a rehash of what Sony has already done. I'm curious to see what Marvel has in store. As for hair color, I could care less. As long as Zendaya and Holland have chemistry together than that's all that really matters to me. Marvel has earned my trust when it comes to casting so I'll judge Zendaya's MJ on the portrayal rather than if she looks like the character in the comics.

if anyone really knows the 616 MJ one would know she's quite different than Kirsten dunst's. infact the closest we've ever gotten to Classic MJ is Bryce's Gwen.

im glad you could care less.. but i personally have great care for the character.. and i can honestly say Mary Jane Watson had a big impact on my life growing up.. she was my first exposure to a strong independent woman (thanks to the Animated Series first introducing me to her and comics) her and Peter's relationship was basically my life goal. They were fantastic models of a relationship for me especially in contrast to my parents who were going through a divorce and being an only child i found comfort in their relationship. I grew up, One More Day happened.. and when it was clear it was a new status quo i quit buying comics all together, especially after Joe Quesada and the current heads of marvel kept wanting to fall back on the excuse that "married people are boring" when in reality they're not.... they just wrote her that way and gave her nothing to do.. (at the time they stripped her of her career, social life, friends, and basically kept her and may locked in the apartment... she had nothing left to do but sit at home, worry, and be boring). But i digress... now i'm engaged to my own Red Head with the Initials MJ.. and comic MJ is still in my top 5 all time favorite comic characters.. beating out multiple actual superheroes...

so yeah.. characters are important to people, and its completely understandable when people are upset by change for the sake of change, and when a character looks and is described by the actress in a way that is absolutely nothing like the character you know and love...

 

[X Knight]

LOL! Wow.

First off, I don't understand why people get so uptight that some of us wanted a natural redhead for the part of Mary Jane (that is if who Zendaya is playing) or that her costume and the way she's described her character doesn't fit the mold or general idea of who MJ is, and that a lot of these characters in this film seem to be amalgamation of other characters and have been changed all because for some reason whether it be Queens or for the sake of looking progressive or all-inclusive, or to look like they were honoring the real Queens they had to change pre-existing characters to match those changing demographics and populace.

Second, it's the Joker. Of course, his hair is going to be dyed green. Even in the comics, he went from his natural hair color to it being chemically altered to green. I don't know if you saying that was to be funny or tongue-in-cheek, or something else, but come on, man... apples and oranges with that comment compared to Zendaya. Granted, yes, Dunst dyed her hair to red and Stone dyed her typically red hair to blonde for MJ and Gwen, but some of us were hoping that when the Marvel Studios got their hands on Spider-Man, we wouldn't be getting so many changes and the characters they were bringing in would at least look like or hold onto their individual personalities like in the comics. Now, it seems they're combining characters, personalities, and changing skin color all because they can.

As I said in another forum thread, it seems like this movie's motto is, "If it ain't broke, break it" and "If it worked in the past, change everything and anything."

yep!!

 

[spideyboy_1111]

But since Gunn is probably privy to what they're doing with Homecoming, shouldn't that alleviate those fears and we'll have get the alpha playful female by the end? The Jackpot reveal?

you forgot the sexist line about how being wafer thin is apparently a more important characteristic to Gunn than her hair... (which is lunacy).

I personally can't imagine any scenario where an audience enjoys watching a quite "awkward and Dry" girl into a flirty party girl... Sandy from Grease in no way shape or form works in this day in age.

 

[X Knight]

For all we know, she may not even be MJ.

with all these heated discussions........that would be the funniest thing.....lol.

 

[X Knight]

you forgot the sexist line about how being wafer thin is apparently a more important characteristic to Gunn than her hair... (which is lunacy).

I personally can't imagine any scenario where an audience enjoys watching a quite "awkward and Dry" girl into a flirty party girl... Sandy from Grease in no way shape or form works in this day in age.

I mean......I don't necessarily mind that story arc. but for a different character.

I don't really want to see that story arc for MJ.

I'd much rather they explore more interesting aspects of her character like the façade/mask angle.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

It was more tongue-in-cheek. I'm more concerned about how the character is integrated into the film and will their relationship be believable. For example, I have no issue with Lois Lane being a redhead in the DCEU but I have major issue with how poorly the character is written and the severe lack of chemistry between Amy and Henry. The main thing Marvel has to get right is the chemistry between the 2 actors. If they get that right than I can ignore the fact that MJ doesn't look exactly how she was designed in the comics.

not if MJ is in name only... (or in this case maybe even intials only) Peter's had multiple love interests and while chemistry is certainly key.. thus far there's no valid reason they needed to make this love interest MJ

 

[Oscorp]

with all these heated discussions........that would be the funniest thing.....lol.

We'd probably hear the sigh of relief through our computers!

 

[Scarlet Spider]

Granted, yes, Dunst dyed her hair to red and Stone dyed her typically red hair to blonde for MJ and Gwen, but some of us were hoping that when the Marvel Studios got their hands on Spider-Man, we wouldn't be getting so many changes and the characters they were bringing in would at least look like or hold onto their individual personalities like in the comics. Now, it seems they're combining characters, personalities, and changing skin color all because they can.

Emma Stone's actually a natural blonde.

 

[PeterBenParker]

As of right now, she is Mary Jane. If she wasn't, it would've been debunked the moment the rumor surfaced.

Whether or not she remains Mary Jane will be another thing entirely 'cause as Barry pointed out (and a few others may have), they could cut the twist or alter her so she just remains 'Michele'.

 

[X Knight]

if anyone really knows the 616 MJ one would know she's quite different than Kirsten dunst's. infact the closest we've ever gotten to Classic MJ is Bryce's Gwen.

im glad you could care less.. but i personally have great care for the character.. and i can honestly say Mary Jane Watson had a big impact on my life growing up.. she was my first exposure to a strong independent woman (thanks to the Animated Series first introducing me to her and comics) her and Peter's relationship was basically my life goal. They were fantastic models of a relationship for me especially in contrast to my parents who were going through a divorce and being an only child i found comfort in their relationship. I grew up, One More Day happened.. and when it was clear it was a new status quo i quit buying comics all together, especially after Joe Quesada and the current heads of marvel kept wanting to fall back on the excuse that "married people are boring" when in reality they're not.... they just wrote her that way and gave her nothing to do.. (at the time they stripped her of her career, social life, friends, and basically kept her and may locked in the apartment... she had nothing left to do but sit at home, worry, and be boring). But i digress... now i'm engaged to my own Red Head with the Initials MJ.. and comic MJ is still in my top 5 all time favorite comic characters.. beating out multiple actual superheroes...

so yeah.. characters are important to people, and its completely understandable when people are upset by change for the sake of change, and when a character looks and is described by the actress in a way that is absolutely nothing like the character you know and love...

this. so much.

We'd probably hear the sigh of relief through our computers!

hah!!

 

[Scarlet Spider]

Going back to James Gunn, he did mention that he had read the script for this film (in the same facebook post, where he supported Zendaya). Even though he was playing coy, he knows everything that happens in this film. Everything.

 

[X Knight]

As of right now, she is Mary Jane. If she wasn't, it would've been debunked the moment the rumor surfaced.

Whether or not she remains Mary Jane will be another thing entirely 'cause as Barry pointed out (and a few others may have), they could cut the twist or alter her so she just remains 'Michele'.

yeah. I'm wondering if they will do that.

I also wonder if a recent draft ( which Mayimbe cited as the source ) had her as MJ, but the final draft changed that.

we just don't know.

but like you, as of right now, I'm assuming she's MJ, too.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

that's an assumption.

unless I start hearing multiple leaks and reports that she will indeed transform into classic MJ by the end of the film, both in terms of looks and personality, I am basing my concerns on what I am seeing right now with the set pics and character descriptions. And what I'm seeing and hearing right now has me concerned.

for all we know, she may not transform by the end of the film.

Mayimbe said they "drop hints" she's MJ. he never said she would reveals herself as MJ by the end. that's what we are all assuming.

dropping hints suggest they may just tease it in the 1st film, and carry it on into the next film.

after all, the initial reports about Zendaya's casting suggested she would have a small part in film 1 that would expand into a bigger role later on.

Don't mean to assume. That's what I complain about here when others complain about assumptions about this movie that may never happen. But, I believe there were reports that this scoop ruins the surprise reveal that Zendaya is in fact MJ.

you forgot the sexist line about how being wafer thin is apparently a more important characteristic to Gunn than her hair... (which is lunacy).

I personally can't imagine any scenario where an audience enjoys watching a quite "awkward and Dry" girl into a flirty party girl... Sandy from Grease in no way shape or form works in this day in age.

Agree about the Sandy thing. It was also a complaint of the Allison character from The Breakfast Club. If they do something similar, they have to be careful how they handle the transformation.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

It was more tongue-in-cheek. I'm more concerned about how the character is integrated into the film and will their relationship be believable. For example, I have no issue with Lois Lane being a redhead in the DCEU but I have major issue with how poorly the character is written and the severe lack of chemistry between Amy and Henry. The main thing Marvel has to get right is the chemistry between the 2 actors. If they get that right than I can ignore the fact that MJ doesn't look exactly how she was designed in the comics.

Ah ok. Cool. No worries.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Emma Stone's actually a natural blonde.

Yes, I knew that but I was saying, she went from red to blonde for the role. Sorry, I should've been more specific.

 

[X Knight]

Don't mean to assume. That's what I complain about here when others complain about assumptions about this movie that may never happen. But, I believe there were reports that this scoop ruins the surprise reveal that Zendaya is in fact MJ.




Agree about the Sandy thing. It was also a complaint of the Allison character from The Breakfast Club. If they do something similar, they have to be careful how they handle the transformation.

oh, so you've read reports saying the surprise reveal has indeed been spoiled by the scoop?

I mean, it's kind of obvious that it has been spoiled.

but do you have links to those reports? I'd like to read them, too.

 

[obredaan]

im glad you could care less.. but i personally have great care for the character.. and i can honestly say Mary Jane Watson had a big impact on my life growing up.. she was my first exposure to a strong independent woman (thanks to the Animated Series first introducing me to her and comics) her and Peter's relationship was basically my life goal. They were fantastic models of a relationship for me especially in contrast to my parents who were going through a divorce and being an only child i found comfort in their relationship. I grew up, One More Day happened.. and when it was clear it was a new status quo i quit buying comics all together, especially after Joe Quesada and the current heads of marvel kept wanting to fall back on the excuse that "married people are boring" when in reality they're not.... they just wrote her that way and gave her nothing to do.. (at the time they stripped her of her career, social life, friends, and basically kept her and may locked in the apartment... she had nothing left to do but sit at home, worry, and be boring). But i digress... now i'm engaged to my own Red Head with the Initials MJ.. and comic MJ is still in my top 5 all time favorite comic characters.. beating out multiple actual superheroes...

so yeah.. characters are important to people, and its completely understandable when people are upset by change for the sake of change, and when a character looks and is described by the actress in a way that is absolutely nothing like the character you know and love...

So cause I don't care about the hair color dispute that means I don't care about the character? The character is what matters to me the most and the chemistry with Peter. If they get that right then they've already succeeded in my eyes.