Homecoming The Zendaya is Mary Jane thread - Part 1

[harryoscop]

Why not just remake Freaks & Geeks or Breakfast Club since they're so intent on changing Spider-Man characters to be the same character types as the ones in those movies.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

For the love of God Zendeya is a beautiful woman and a good actor? We can't leave it at that?

Beautiful yes. Good actress? Undetermined. Her only experience is in Disney Channel shows and a voice-actor gig for a Tinkerbell movie. Kind of premature, in my opinion, to call her a good actress.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

because being beautiful and a good actor doesn't always make you right for a particular role.

Substitute with "white" and "red hair" and you have the same argument.

thanks.

I just looked up Lindsey from Freaks and Geeks.

and that doesn't even remotely sound like what MJ is supposed to be - aside from being intelligent and considerate which fits Ultimate MJ. but the rest of it sounds nothing at all like MJ or how she would behave.

it's the wrong character type for MJ. so why base your version of MJ on a character type that doesn't really fit her?

that makes no sense to me.

it's like the director is trying to "pigeonhole" Spider-Man characters into character types from other stories he may like ( Freaks and Geeks, Breakfast Clubs ) even when they don't seem to fit.

Freaks and Geeks is a great show! You should check it out!

I also hope they don't try to pigeonhole the Marvel characters into other 80's characters. But I will wait and see what they come up with before I complain.

it's like the saying - trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

Square Pegs is another show they could take inspiration from!

I'm assuming you are being sarcastic about Sha-Shan?

Is Sha-Shan an actual character from the Spider-Man comics? I just assumed she was created for the SSM show.

Yes. Flash met Sha-Shan in Vietnam when he was in the war in the comics.


Look, Zendaya wouldn't have been my choice for MJ. I would have preferred an actress that looked more like 616 MJ. And maybe Marvel and/or Sony have an agenda considering the other actress that was mentioned auditioned for the role. But from what I've seen in pictures and gifs (I never saw her act though) it looks like she could pull off a 616 MJ. I only hope they give her her signature red hair at the end.

 

[ernesth100]

Beautiful yes. Good actress? Undetermined. Her only experience is in Disney Channel shows and a voice-actor gig for a Tinkerbell movie. Kind of premature, in my opinion, to call her a good actress.

True true. But only time will tell.

 

[Stringer]

so, because I was happy with one casting choice, I have to automatically like, accept, and approve every subsequent casting choice??

I don't have blind faith in Marvel or any other studio or director or whatever.

I evaluate each casting choice independently. I evaluate each movie independently.

After Tom's casting, I certainly had high hopes for the future castings, especially with MJ ( which I said from the very beginning would probably be the next most critical casting choice after Tom ).

and I've been let down, disappointed, and bewildered ever since with their casting choices. the only exception being Keaton as the villain.

Uh no, but you could refrain from jumping to conclusions based off Hollands performance in the role. There is a chance they know what they're doing.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Haha! t: Love that game.

"You gotta be kidding, this is going to be tooo easy!"

t:

 

[X Knight]

Substitute with "white" and "red hair" and you have the same argument.



Freaks and Geeks is a great show! You should check it out!

I also hope they don't try to pigeonhole the Marvel characters into other 80's characters. But I will wait and see what they come up with before I complain.



Square Pegs is another show they could take inspiration from!





Yes. Flash met Sha-Shan in Vietnam when he was in the war in the comics.


Look, Zendaya wouldn't have been my choice for MJ. I would have preferred an actress that looked more like 616 MJ. And maybe Marvel and/or Sony have an agenda considering the other actress that was mentioned auditioned for the role. But from what I've seen in pictures and gifs (I never saw her act though) it looks like she could pull off a 616 MJ. I only hope they give her her signature red hair at the end.

ok, I didn't know that about Sha-Shan. Now it makes sense why she was included in the show and why Flash pursued her.

however, she's a good example of the type of character you can change and get away with it. And using Cindy Moon instead of Sha-Shan isn't even changing or replacing her. it's merely using a different character instead.

 

[Chesterfield]

Uh no, but you could refrain from jumping to conclusions based off Hollands performance in the role. There is a chance they know what they're doing.

This thread would do well to have more sensible posts like this.

 

[X Knight]

Uh no, but you could refrain from jumping to conclusions based off Hollands performance in the role. There is a chance they know what they're doing.

I'm jumping to conclusions based on the subsequent casting choices, set pics, and character descriptions that have started to leak out.

true, the final result could turn out entirely different.

but right now, I'm not that confident.

This thread would do well to have more sensible posts like this.

so one is not allowed to form an opinion and express said opinion until after they've seen the final film?

the boards would be a lot more boring and less interesting if we were to do that for every film. we'd have nothing to talk about while the film is being made. we'd have to wait until after the film comes out and after we've seen it to come here and discuss it.

 

[PeterBenParker]

so no one is not allowed to form an opinion and express said opinion until after they've seen the final film?

the boards would be a lot more boring and less interesting if we were to do that for every film. we'd have nothing to talk about while the film is being made. we'd have to wait until after the film comes out and after we've seen it to come here and discuss it.

This. I hate the double standard that it's great to post nothing but positives about the film but don't dare say anything that may not be positive because "we don't know what we're doing", really. If we did that for every film, we'd be that much more upset with the final result. Look at Green Lantern. Look at X-Men 3. Look at Spider-Man 3.

I don't really care that it's Marvel Studios and we "should have faith in them because of their track record". If I see something I don't like, I'll speak up about it and I've been doing that since Civil War.

 

[X Knight]

This. I hate the double standard that it's great to post nothing but positives about the film but don't dare say anything that may not be positive because "we don't know what we're doing", really. If we did that for every film, we'd be that much more upset with the final result. Look at Green Lantern. Look at X-Men 3. Look at Spider-Man 3.

I don't really care that it's Marvel Studios and we "should have faith in them because of their track record". If I see something I don't like, I'll speak up about it and I've been doing that since Civil War.

exactly this!

if I see stuff I don't like, I'm going to speak out and complain. just like if I see stuff that I like, I'm going to speak out and praise it.

I liked Tom's casting choice and performance in Civil War. I came here and praised it.

So far, I'm not liking Zendaya's casting choice as MJ. I come here and complain about it.

you can't just expect praise and not expect the complaints.

this is a discussion board. We discuss. we debate. and we do it respectfully and civilly.

but this not the "praise only" board.

 

[harryoscop]

This. I hate the double standard that it's great to post nothing but positives about the film but don't dare say anything that may not be positive because "we don't know what we're doing", really. If we did that for every film, we'd be that much more upset with the final result. Look at Green Lantern. Look at X-Men 3. Look at Spider-Man 3.

I don't really care that it's Marvel Studios and we "should have faith in them because of their track record". If I see something I don't like, I'll speak up about it and I've been doing that since Civil War.

Preach. "If you don't have something nice to say about Homecoming then don't say anything at all and STHU and wait for the movie." That's why boards like these exist, so fans can have discussion with each other. It would get boring very quickly (for me at least) if everyone shared the same opinion.

And like you & X Knight-- I don't care if it's Marvel or Sony or whoever else, I want to my favorite character and his universe to be done rjustice with respect to the source material, and things that have come before.

 

[PeterBenParker]

exactly this!

if I see stuff I don't like, I'm going to speak out and complain. just like if I see stuff that I like, I'm going to speak out and praise it.

I liked Tom's casting choice and performance in Civil War. I came here and praised it.

So far, I'm not liking Zendaya's casting choice as MJ. I come here and complain about it.

I liked Tom, too but didn't really care for his performance in Civil War. I came here and spoke about it and was one of the few people that did initially before some saw my POV.

I like Zendaya as MJ, but the recent rumors have got me skeptical and even worried to some degree that she won't even be Mary Jane but rather a mix of an OC with a bit of Mary Jane. Going as far as to be Michele J____ as opposed to Mary Jane Watson.

you can't just expect praise and not expect the complaints.

this is a discussion board. We discuss. we debate. and we do it respectfully and civilly.

but this not the "praise only" board.

Pretty much this. If those don't like the "whining" and such, there's the ignore list and I'm already on some so it's not anything new for me.

Preach. "If you don't have something nice to say about Homecoming then don't say anything at all and STHU and wait for the movie." That's why boards like these exist, so fans can have discussion with each other. It would get boring very quickly (for me at least) if everyone shared the same opinion.

And like you & X Knight-- I don't care if it's Marvel or Sony or whoever else, I want to my favorite character and his universe to be done rjustice with respect to the source material, and things that have come before.

 

[Chesterfield]

so one is not allowed to form an opinion and express said opinion until after they've seen the final film?

the boards would be a lot more boring and less interesting if we were to do that for every film. we'd have nothing to talk about while the film is being made. we'd have to wait until after the film comes out and after we've seen it to come here and discuss it.

Of course not; but I've seen many people here double down on dumb **** with their thinking. I'm merely suggesting approaching whatever news we get with a bit more maturity and a modicum of sensible thought. You yourself and others have already expressed how you're done with this film or no longer have any desire to see it, because of the way this film has been cast; departing from what Uncle Stan did back 50 something years ago.

Feel free to like or dislike what you want, it's your prerogative. However, remember that these films are adaptations, you know, a process of change to suit a particular domain. Comic book movies have been doing it since day one and Marvel themselves have been taking a plethora of liberties with adapting the comics.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

This. I hate the double standard that it's great to post nothing but positives about the film but don't dare say anything that may not be positive because "we don't know what we're doing", really. If we did that for every film, we'd be that much more upset with the final result. Look at Green Lantern. Look at X-Men 3. Look at Spider-Man 3.

I don't really care that it's Marvel Studios and we "should have faith in them because of their track record". If I see something I don't like, I'll speak up about it and I've been doing that since Civil War.

exactly this!

if I see stuff I don't like, I'm going to speak out and complain. just like if I see stuff that I like, I'm going to speak out and praise it.

I liked Tom's casting choice and performance in Civil War. I came here and praised it.

So far, I'm not liking Zendaya's casting choice as MJ. I come here and complain about it.

you can't just expect praise and not expect the complaints.

this is a discussion board. We discuss. we debate. and we do it respectfully and civilly.

but this not the "praise only" board.

Guys, you can express your concerns. I have them too. I'm just talking about the general assumptions that things are happening. Tony Stark is going to dominate the movie! Spidey is just Iron Man's sidekick! MJ is written as a totally different character that will absolutely follow the same beats as Alison from the Breakfast Club! All expressed as fact!

I'm just saying, show a little optimism. Ok, maybe some don't have faith in Marvel. I look at what Marvel has done from Iron Man up to Civil War compared to what Sony has done from Spider-Man 3 to Amazing Spider-Man 2 and your damn right I'm happy Marvel is handling this one! Call me a Marvel "zombie," but that is my experience about how the two studios have handled their respective properties.

Again you don't have to be all positive, but what's the point of being worked up over something they may never happen?

 

[PeterBenParker]

I'm just saying, show a little optimism. Ok, maybe some don't have faith in Marvel. I look at what Marvel has done from Iron Man up to Civil War compared to what Sony has done from Spider-Man 3 to Amazing Spider-Man 2 and your damn right I'm happy Marvel is handling this one! Call me a Marvel "zombie," but that is my experience about how the two studios have handled their respective properties.

Again you don't have to be all positive, but what's the point of being worked up over something they may never happen?

I do have things to be optimistic about, hence why I'm still hanging around the forum. And compared to X, I'm actually more optimistic.

• I have hope Tom will deliver as a better Peter/Spidey then what I got from him in Civil War.
  
• Vulture is a villain I've wanted in Spider-Man films since Spider-Man 4 and while I hate the design, it's still Michael f'n Keaton in the role of the character so I'm still plenty happy about that.
  
• I've been one of the few advocating for Zendaya as MJ and I'm happy it seems to be happening. May not be exactly how I would've wanted it to be, but I'm quite happy with it nonetheless.
  
• I love the dedication to high school they seem to be taking and I love how they've been citing John Hughes as inspiration.
  
• I like Jon Watts as a director much like I liked Marc Webb as a director.
  
• Martin Starr is in the film. That says it all for me.
  
• SHOCKER is in the film and I'm beyond excited.

It's not all doom-and-gloom with me, but some things that are rumored (Stark being a mentor to Peter when he has never really needed one, Mary Jane actually being a Michele J character that will make her the 'MJ' of their world, the constant change of characters, etc.) bug me and I'll continue to address 'em until their addressed, be it via confirmation from sources or when the film releases itself.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

And again you all have the right to complain. I have concerns too, I'm not thrilled about Zendaya as MJ but I'm starting to warm up to the idea. I'm not sure about the writers, they make me nervous. Also not sure about Flash.

I just think Marvel has earned my good will. If things don't work out, you know I'll be on here *****ing like everyone else.

I guess I'm not so much telling you you can't express your opinions if they are negative. It's more to reassure those concerns that might not even be in the film.

 

[NHawk19]

Thing is this isn't just Marvel. It's Marvel/Sony. While Marvel's got a pretty good track record Sony's most recent comic book movies leave a lot to be desired.

Here's the thing. Mary Jane was first mentioned introduced in 1964, but not fully revealed until 1966. There's 50 + years of history there. Also comics are a visual medium. Meaning they showed us what she's supposed to look like. To date on film we've seen her once and she didn't quite live up to what most people's expectations were. People have invested time and money on that established version and I believe are understandably upset at not seeing "their" version of the character on screen.

When it comes to changing anything about a character, powers, uniform, gender, race there are different levels. Mary Jane is an established and recognizable enough character that these changes will and should be questioned. While MJ may not be at the same level as Peter, she's still at a high enough level that there was going to be some complaining about the deviation in physical appearance. Quite honestly some of it was going to happen regardless of race. That's why it's suprising that Marvel has chosen to deviate so much from the established visual of Mary Jane Watson.

You don't see the complaints about Liz Allen because she's not at the same level as MJ, and generally that means you can deviate from the source material a little more. Same thing happened with Heimdall and no one complained.

Me though I'm still upset that this means no real Gwen story in the MCU.

 

[PeterBenParker]

I guess I'm not so much telling you you can't express your opinions if they are negative. It's more to reassure those concerns that might not even be in the film.

Appreciate it. I know you have good intentions.

 

[X Knight]

I understand where you are coming from, Spider-Gnome.

 

[X Knight]

Thing is this isn't just Marvel. It's Marvel/Sony. While Marvel's got a pretty good track record Sony's most recent comic book movies leave a lot to be desired.

Here's the thing. Mary Jane was first mentioned introduced in 1964, but not fully revealed until 1966. There's 50 + years of history there. Also comics are a visual medium. Meaning they showed us what she's supposed to look like. To date on film we've seen her once and she didn't quite live up to what most people's expectations were. People have invested time and money on that established version and I believe are understandably upset at not seeing "their" version of the character on screen.

When it comes to changing anything about a character, powers, uniform, gender, race there are different levels. Mary Jane is an established and recognizable enough character that these changes will and should be questioned. While MJ may not be at the same level as Peter, she's still at a high enough level that there was going to be some complaining about the deviation in physical appearance. Quite honestly some of it was going to happen regardless of race. That's why it's suprising that Marvel has chosen to deviate so much from the established visual of Mary Jane Watson.

You don't see the complaints about Liz Allen because she's not at the same level as MJ, and generally that means you can deviate from the source material a little more. Same thing happened with Heimdall and no one complained.

Me though I'm still upset that this means no real Gwen story in the MCU.

bingo.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Appreciate it. I know you have good intentions.

I understand where you are coming from, Spider-Gnome.

t:

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

I'm assuming you are being sarcastic about Sha-Shan?

Is Sha-Shan an actual character from the Spider-Man comics? I just assumed she was created for the SSM show.

Nah. I couldn't care less, but Spidey fans as a whole are anal-retentive about continuity even outside of the 616 universe, in which case I think it's best to chillax and let a wholly different story unfold than try to make everything perfectly reflect the original comics. That's not to say I'm without reservations for this movie, however.

I'd rather not see Cindy Moon in general though, other than just a fun wink-wink namedrop because I don't see Silk getting her own movie and I don't want an Ant-Man & The Wasp situation. From my admittedly limited reading experience, Silk is not a character that I personally am clamoring to see on the big screen--at least not yet.

Me though I'm still upset that this means no real Gwen story in the MCU.

Not necessarily. Just means it won't unfold as it did in 616 universe, which is good as we already saw a moderately faithful version of that in TASM series. I love ASM 121-122 and all, but I'm not super excited to see Gwen die again, especially when that was one of the few things I thought TASM2 did extremely well.

There's still a chance we get Gwen in future MCU Spidey adventures, just don't expect green coat and purple skirt IMO.

 

[harryoscop]

Gwen will probably be Ultimate Gwen

 

[X Knight]

Nah. I couldn't care less, but Spidey fans as a whole are anal-retentive about continuity even outside of the 616 universe, in which case I think it's best to chillax and let a wholly different story unfold than try to make everything perfectly reflect the original comics. That's not to say I'm without reservations for this movie, however.

I'd rather not see Cindy Moon in general though, other than just a fun wink-wink namedrop because I don't see Silk getting her own movie and I don't want an Ant-Man & The Wasp situation. From my admittedly limited reading experience, Silk is not a character that I personally am clamoring to see on the big screen--at least not yet.



Not necessarily. Just means it won't unfold as it did in 616 universe, which is good as we already saw a moderately faithful version of that in TASM series. I love ASM 121-122 and all, but I'm not super excited to see Gwen die again, especially when that was one of the few things I thought TASM2 did extremely well.

There's still a chance we get Gwen in future MCU Spidey adventures, just don't expect green coat and purple skirt IMO.

ah, I got you.