They Got It Wrong???!!! Or Did They?!?!?????

[fallenAngel]

Thanks!


I have to agree with you there. The Logan/Scott interaction was specially entertaining in X1...I loved when they were insulting each other and Jean was like rolling her eyes, maybe thinking "Men...!" And they shared an emotional moment in X2, it was nice. Yeah, more Logan/Scott in X3 would be interesting to see, I concur.
Cyke is one of my least favorite characters, but I don´t hate him. I just don´t care about him. But the funny thing is that all this Cyke pity party and Wolverine/X3 hatred that some of his fans are promoting around here is making me hate the character. To expect an entire movie to fail and disappoint millions of fans because of one character is selfish and sad, really.

Well the Dark Phoenix saga is one of the crown jewels of Comic history (at least the superhero genre). So it's to be expected.

And I love Jean's eye role, it brings so much humanity to the situation and lightens the mood. It's like when Cyclops botches the landing of the X jet and Wolverine calls him on it.

I really wish Cyclops could have had more scenes with people. Like how does he act with Beast, we'll never know. And it does seem like Wolverine does care what happens with him, if even for a moment.

 

[Supreme Power]

I would agree with this, because I think that's what the writers intended, but after listening to most or all reviews say that Cyclops death seems ineffective and resonates little throughout the rest of the film, I don't think it is as powerful a moment as originally suggested.

And that is one thing that I don't like. They should of at least showed how his death had more of an emotional impact with the rest of the team.

 

[Tuppence]

And I love Jean's eye role, it brings so much humanity to the situation and lightens the mood. It's like when Cyclops botches the landing of the X jet and Wolverine calls him on it.

I really wish Cyclops could have had more scenes with people. Like how does he act with Beast, we'll never know. And it does seem like Wolverine does care what happens with him, if even for a moment.

That was a good tension releasing moment. Although I gotta say - botches? That was a botched landing? Landing a jet in water ain't so bloody easy. All landings should be so "botched". Of course, that's a reaction based in realism, not in movie "logic".

That's one of the huge drawbacks of the series in general - lack of interaction among the cast. More cast interaction would have substantially improved the feel of a school and family, and given more screentime to everyone. The first movie was the best in this regard, and it got worse (much, much worse) not better.

 

[fallenAngel]

That was a good tension releasing moment. Although I gotta say - botches? That was a botched landing? Landing a jet in water ain't so bloody easy. All landings should be so "botched". Of course, that's a reaction based in realism, not in movie "logic".

That's one of the huge drawbacks of the series in general - lack of interaction among the cast. More cast interaction would have substantially improved the feel of a school and family, and given more screentime to everyone. The first movie was the best in this regard, and it got worse (much, much worse) not better.

That's why Critics seemed to like the first movie better. There was more Character development.

And I said botch, because I like the word and it was the best way to describe the scene I was talking about. Plus that's certainly how Wolverine felt.

 

[Tuppence]

And I said botch, because I like the word and it was the best way to describe the scene I was talking about. Plus that's certainly how Wolverine felt.

I'm sorry, I should have put a smilie - I wasn't really being serious.

Botch is a good word. Botch botch botch.

 

[Supreme Power]

Wow...

anyway...Is this movie going to be big? yes. Is it going to make lots of money? yes. IS it going to create even more wolvie fans? yes, eventhough they'll wonder why Wolverine looks so short on the comicbook pages. Is this going to be a good movie as far as movies go? it has a good chance. But is it going to be a good X-Men movie? probably not.

X-Men is about the team. Its about the interactions of the people on the team and how they all work together to overcome the odds. This movie is more about Wolverine's journey with his supprting cast members. Good Wolverine movie (that happens to take plot element belonging to Cyclops...which isn't my point at the moment), bad X-Men movie.

That's what I'm complaining about personally. I want X-Men...I get Wolverine.

I disagree. While wolverine is a central focus, there will be a lot of team dynamics shown in the movie.

 

[calibud]

What bothers me most about this whole thing is that ever since that fight between Cyclops and Jean at the end of X2, I figured Singer was trying to foreshadow something that he may have planned to include in X3. I mean we all knew where the story was going the minute her powers intensified. It just made sense to assume that they would come at odds again when she became Dark Phoenix.
I'm not saying Bryan Singer's story should've been followed through by a completely different crew of people...but it's just that inconsistency. I think that's what's going to bug me most about X3. I've seen enough at this point to tell that there are a lot of Bryan Singer's subtle ideas that either aren't going to be flushed out or have been interpreted in less interesting ways. I'm not dissing Ratner, Kinberg, etc. (nothing can stop me from seeing this movie), I just wish we could see how Singer would've wrapped up the story he started telling. Rather than seeing an off-kilter (in relation to Singer's story set-ups) interpretation.

 

[fallenAngel]

I'm sorry, I should have put a smilie - I wasn't really being serious.

Botch is a good word. Botch botch botch.

I almost never use smileys, I didn't really think you were being that serious about it.

Just thought I'd reply to it, because I'm really bored right now.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

X-men, X2: X-men United, and now X3: The Last Stand have something very much in common...Wolverine.

X-men: He is believed until the end to be the "weapon" Magneto is after. He is in virtually every action scene, and it is through HIS eyes that we meet the X-men and experience these fantastic events. In my opinion this was a terrific approach. It worked because he was able to be as shocked as we would be to find ourselves in the same situation. Had it been through, say, Cyclops' or Storms eyes it would not have had the same effect. Plus, with Wolverine, you could already have the X-men an established entity...a big plus for a story with already so many odds and ends. Singer worked this to perfection. Balanced enough of the other characters in, with it centering around Wolverine...who despite what fans what, is what people think of when they think of X-men.

X2: X-men United: The story from the first film continues. The registration act was shot down, so what happens? An Anti-Mutant activist goes off on his own to eliminate the mutants in question. This is a great story, and draws HEAVILY on the terrific graphic novel, GOD LOVES, MAN KILLS. In a near stroke of genius Harris, Dougherty, Penn, and Hayter decided to add one other thing. The intriguing and virtually untold story of Wolverine's past. No one can say that this idea didn't light a little fire in their bellies. It's an interesting one, and it was told well- ambiguously, but thoroughly. Again, there is a good job done by Singer to balance stories. Wolverine's quest for his past, Jean's transformation to the Phoenix, Nightcrawler, Pyro, Rogue and Bobby's romance, and various others. Sure, Cyclops and Professor X took a bit of a back seat, but in GOD LOVES, MAN KILLS, they did as well.

X3: The Last Stand: Wolverine becomes the leader of the X-men. Well, more like second in command, to Storm. We also see Wolverine have a lot of trouble trying to take this role. This isn't out of character for him in the movies or the comics. He isn't all "berserker fury"...he can lead, just not always the way Xavier would want...that's where Storm would come in as his conscious.
Scott is seen and viewed by others as having too much emotional stress, understandably, from loosing the love of his life; his mind is unfit to lead. Storm is ready. She is a great character, despite people's distaste for Halle, Storm has always been somewhat of a leader of the X-men, and even was when Cyclops would be absent. Jean's story as the Phoenix (from all clips I've seen) is awesome. I also love that they made her the "straw that broke the camel’s back" in Eric and Charles' relationship. Beast seems great. Pyro and Iceman are finally full on players. And the Juggernaut and Shadow Cat are great additions. The only concerns I have are that Colossus (my second favorite mutant behind Cyclops), Rogue, and Angel seem underused. But in a movie like this there will always be under developed characters.

Yes, I just recapped six years and three movies. Why? Because of all of the complaining. I am not a "big-time" X-men poster, but I read here daily, and have been around here for a little while...and I don't think people understand that with an X-men movie...there will be a LOT of Wolverine. But to put it in perspective:

If there were an AVENGERS (live action) movie, who would be the lead? Captain America, right? No brainier. Would Iron Man fans get pissed? Would Thor fans? Probably a little, but they would realize that Captain America is the figure head of the group, not just the leader.
And while Wolverine is NOT the leader of the X-men, he is the figure head.

If there were a live action TEEN TITANS movie...who would take the lead? Starfire? No. Cyborg? No. Superboy? eh...No. Robin would. Because he is the figure head of the group. The movie would have all of these characters, but he would be the big "money" hero of the film.

We really have to accept that this is the way things are going to happen. Not just put butts in the seats and sell toys, but because to the general public, Wolverine is the most interesting character, because he has that "bad ass" edge. Why they hold him in higher regard to say, Beast, Colossus, Cyclops, etc I don't know. But since his debut in the 70's he has. It's just smart writing to build the movie AROUND him, which is what they've done...all THREE times. It's not like Ratner made this idea up, because the comics and Singer have done it too.

So I really just hope, and this is wishful thinking, that this can make people pause before they make the "X-MAN" comments, because it's really not necessary. All movies need a central character...for these movies it is Wolverine.

-R

I totally agree, and I've been trying to fight this fight for a long time.

Unfortunatley though, it will fall on deaf ears.

My only problem with it, at the end of all things, is

Spoiler

killing off Cyclops, who is a very vital character to the mythos, and totally ignoring his love for Jean, which is what brings her back from the corruption of the Phoenix, to be replaced with Wolverine's "love" for her, which is more of an infatuation. Wolverine is not that character. And I don't see him as a leader either.

But other than that, you're totally spot on.

 

[FieryBalrog]

The OP is moot. Under a good writer who appreciates the characters, giving Wolverine the limelight does NOT mean denigrating the other characters or having them remain boring cyphers. It just means using the screentime they DO get effectively.

These are movies based on a comic medium after all. And comic book writers always have to deal with this problem in team books. Mediocre writers often resort to the tactic used in the movies: develop one or two characters at the expense of the others, who either disappear or hang around with generic lines.

A GOOD writer manages to include character moments for everyone- to use the screentime effectively to say something about the characters. Vaughan, for example, is very good at this.

 

[Cinemaman]

I think the whole looks not so good. I was X-fan, but after Ratner becoming director of X3, I didn't want to see X3.

Storylines? I think there is only one big, about battle between mutants. Nothing intersting. And this DR looks like bad idea or even big disappointment for me.

Characters? There is no hystory or intersting facts about them. It is really bad.

Actors? I think Jackman is only one their hope, but they turned his chracter into nice comedy hero for beating bad guys. The proof is that Leno's clip with Sentinel.

Vissual effects? Only one thing what looks nice for me, but again there no new or special scenes with CGI.

The whole movie looks for me poor. It seems like this movie was created as just another stupid blockbuster without sense and with only vissual effects.

I can say that it will get huge opening, but then bad WOM cut X3 legs for box office.

It means, that X3 will not make even $20m with negative reviews.

 

[Strgts]

I think the whole looks not so good. I was X-fan, but after Ratner becoming director of X3, I didn't want to see X3.

Storylines? I think there is only one big, about battle between mutants. Nothing intersting. And this DR looks like bad idea or even big disappointment for me.

Characters? There is no hystory or intersting facts about them. It is really bad.

Actors? I think Jackman is only one their hope, but they turned his chracter into nice comedy hero for beating bad guys. The proof is that Leno's clip with Sentinel.

Vissual effects? Only one thing what looks nice for me, but again there no new or special scenes with CGI.

The whole movie looks for me poor. It seems like this movie was created as just another stupid blockbuster without sense and with only vissual effects.

I can say that it will get huge opening, but then bad WOM cut X3 legs for box office.

It means, that X3 will not make even $20m with negative reviews.

Aren't you the guy that thinks pretty much that no other Movie besides Superman Returns will do good this Summer

 

[Cinemaman]

Aren't you the guy that thinks pretty much that no other Movie besides Superman Returns will do good this Summer

No, I am also POTC and DVC fan.

 

[LostSon88]

Why do people think that the writers purposely gave Cyclops the shaft and just handed his role to Wolverine?

At the time they had no choice...Marsden was off doing Superman Returns and thus they were put in a situation to write a story with the possibility if Marsden not being able to participate.

And sure they could've re-casted the role but IMHO, that would've ruined the Cyclops character even more! (for me) As harsh as it sounds I prefer what they did (killed off?) as opposed to have some other actor "pose" as Cyclops for X3 (I hate it when MAIN characters are re-cast).

The writers were put in a tough situation and did what they could.

 

[Strgts]

The writers were put in a tough situation and did what they could.

Thank FOX for that.

 

[InvisibleWoman]

So I really just hope, and this is wishful thinking, that this can make people pause before they make the "X-MAN" comments, because it's really not necessary. All movies need a central character...for these movies it is Wolverine.

-R

You make a fair point, but I think people are a little annoyed at how Cyclops has been robbed. Its like Wolverine has replaced the Cyclops character the same way Spider-Man's Mary Jane is like the Gwen Stacy character (tho they seem to have rectified that by making GS a main charcter in SM3). Cyclops SHOULD have been a central character, especially as they're doing The Phoenix Saga. After all, in the comics he is the leader of the X-Men.

 

[The Batman]

More apologist tripe. Still your opinion, though....

 

[The Kid]

Well here's how I veiw it. take or or leave it... don't care either way. Wolverine is so cool, his story so interesting, so tragic, and he's so badass that he'll always be a main focus in some x-men stories to keep things interesting. But here's the rub.

The movies are called X-MEN. It's about a team of mutants, not just one member and a bunch of his chums. What's wrong with exploring other characters more and giving wolverine a backseat for a while, I say... Look at harry potter. It's about his journey and he rightfully takes the spotlight, but I still feel like I'm getting a good amount of time with his friends to understand their issues as well. Now it's as if they've killed Ron in the third film even though that's absolutely not what happens in the books because Rupert Grint decided to go do another movie that rivals the potter franchise. wtf. It's ridiculous.

What we have here is a change in cyclops that goes against who he was in the first film. He's a soldier, a boyscout, a leader. He knows the risk of losing his love in battle. If he didn't he'd never want her out there putting her life in danger. He should be prepared for the possibility of her death and not become so emo when it happens... of course grieve as one does, and move on... His duty to Xavier came first and he tells xavier that no matter what, he'll take care of everything because he's the second in command. Now his character is made to be weak and stupid and dead. What way to go. And now Wolverclops takes his place. I can't wait to see how this plays out. Maybe it's not as bad as it sounds.

Storm said it nicely, "Logan, Logan, We work as a team. Damnit don't do this... us other x-men want to be seen and heard too."

Wolverine: Storm don't get your panties in a bunch. Now watch me do something cool.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

More apologist tripe. Still your opinion, though....

Read the below please:
__________________________________
tripe ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trp)
n.
Something of no value; rubbish.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=tripe
__________________________________

You and Kurosawa seriously need to bring it down a notch. I'm sick of the hypocritical knocks like the one above. If you want your opinions (and diehard committment to Cyclops) respected around here, learn to start giving that same respect to others--and do so without likening their views to garbage.

Herosonfilm, you also are a touch away from trolling. Back it up.

 

[Kurosawa]

I read comics and I´ve seen him being screwed over and humiliated enough on the last few years, thank you very much.
Whedon writes him like he´s Homer Simpson, Millar wrote him as a co-star in his own title, Bendis made him look stupid with the Avengers. He´s out of Uncanny, he does nothing at X-Men, he´s humiliated in Spider-Man comics.
The only good Wolverine nowadays is the one from the movieverse.


What´s the point of making comparisons between real people and fictional characters?

Anything they have Wolverine endure just makes him stronger and he always ends up looking better than the characters he's in conflict with. He's humiliated every male character in the MU at one point or another. All the females, of course, have either slept with him, want to sleep with him or look to him as a surrogate father if they're very young.

The character gets nothing but respectful treatment and is always portrayed as a bad-ass. Every now and then Gambit used to get the best of him, and that's it. And don't think Gambit's success against Wolverine isn't part of why they've kept him out of the movies. If Gambit's around, Wolverine can't be the coolest guy anymore.

 

[Strgts]

I wonder if the Scene after the End Credits is really is of Xavier waking up in a new body is the set up for the next one. Pheonix died at the end of X2 & now is the focus of X3.

 

[martinbluther]

I realize that there are people, like yourself who don't like him. But I mean, there are people who hate...say, Batman. And yet his movies will always be huge. Because the film-makers won't cater to the minority.

I don't not like Wolverine, I DO think he is over-rated, but he is a good enough character and Jackman plays him so well it brings him to another level.

Told you I'm not on here that often, lol . But yeah, I was just kind of going on feeling, of posts I've seen, the movies, 90's show, X-men Evolution (which I loved), comics, etc.

-R

Can't speak for all fans--most on here can't-- but I will say all of your points on the original post are well-said. However, none of them are prerequisites for the way the other characters have been treated. They could have done much much better, if what we're hearing is true. Even some small changes could yield a much more satisfying product, imo...

 

[silver_arrow]

Is Wolvie the most loved mutant by the fans? I doubt it. Gambit is way up there, too. Is he known to non-fans? Doubt it.

Are you sure? Because I know some people who are no xmen fanatics but watched xmen1 and2, and I didn't see any of them complaining about Wolverine in fact they loved him, and judging by the reaction of the crowd in the theatre when Wolverine's claws appeared on the screen during the trailer, they...seemed to be rather...excited.

 

[The Batman]

Read the below please:
__________________________________
tripe ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trp)
n.
Something of no value; rubbish.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=tripe
__________________________________

You and Kurosawa seriously need to bring it down a notch. I'm sick of the hypocritical knocks like the one above. If you want your opinions (and diehard committment to Cyclops) respected around here, learn to start giving that same respect to others--and do so without likening their views to garbage.

Herosonfilm, you also are a touch away from trolling. Back it up.

And yet, i dont see you lecturing those who feel the nedd to insult cyke fans for having a negative view of the current events....

 

[Azrael23]

].[/FONT] With Jean as the focus in the 3rd film, there's absolutely no artistic reason to have Wolverine be the center as well. The only reasons to put Wolverine in the center again are outside considerations; money and toy-selling. I'd rather have a good movie. And there's absolutely no indication that the film-makers have managed one. Not really their fault; studio politics will happen, and writers have no power at all. But trying to find artistic value in their politically directed writing choices seems a futile endeavor at best.

I am in complete agreement. While I really enjoy the X-films the only real
reason for Wolverine's pressence and dominance is for pure exploitation.
He is merely a token to make money and sell toys. The Producers even once stated that they would never do an X-Men film without Wolverine, which pretty much confirms that they are of the mindset that the comics and mythos of X-Men revolves soley around Wolverine.