Batman Begins Things Batman Begins got Right/Wrong

[MacLeod]

Nolan got nothing wrong. Begins is perfect and the best super hero film to date (until Jul 08 ).

I love when people state their opinions as fact. All that does is show how much is wrong with it because people are blinded by their devotion to it and by making their statment sound so improper makes people like me just look harder into finding fault with it. Nolan, in my opinion of course, did more than one thing wrong. The lack of martial art knowledge, the lack of dective skills, the lack of choosing to be a crime fighter from an early age, the fact that we can't see any of the fight scenes, the fact of being a lost soul until age 23, the fact of burning the mansion down, the fact of the monochromatic suit, the fact that even though this is an origin story Nolan decided to change the origin around, the fact taht TDK is wearing an S&M rubber suit that looks like the Green Goblin and Robocop had a child, and the fact that I could go on for a long while before I find something I liked. Point is, it doesn't matter who's right or who's wrong, don't state your thoughts as fact, it will only make others want to prove you wrong.

 

[Mr. Socko]

That's just his opinion(which in context of his post did make it sound as if he were making statements and facts), I don't agree with him, not many do. But if he thought the movie was perfect, that's fine. If someone thinks of a nice piece of art as flawless, they are more than free to. So for him, the movie may have been perfect from beginning to end. But yes, it's his opinion- not fact.

 

[JamalYIgle]

But, private detectives do it on their own detective work. They work on basically little to no info. That's why people hire them.

Bruce knew exactly who he was looking for and where to find them. He knew Falcone was bent. He knew Judge Fayden was bent. He found out this info thru no use of detective skills. All he had to do was snap a few pics of them in secret. No detective work required there.

uhm I know a few PI's whod disagree with that and a few cops as well.

 

[MacLeod]

That's just his opinion(which in context of his post did make it sound as if he were making statements and facts), I don't agree with him, not many do. But if he thought the movie was perfect, that's fine. If someone thinks of a nice piece of art as flawless, they are more than free to. So for him, the movie may have been perfect from beginning to end. But yes, it's his opinion- not fact.

I realize it's his opinion, it has to be. That doesn't mean his presentation of it comes across as such. A lot of people try to shut others up by demanding their thoughts as fact. All that does is make me show why it's not.

 

[RobC]

Seriously, how much more detective work did he have to do to satisfy you?

How abouts if at the end, he'd turned around to Falcone and gone 'There's just one last thing I don't quite understand...'

BANG

Detective Batman gets 'em again...

 

[MacLeod]

Seriously, how much more detective work did he have to do to satisfy you?

How abouts if at the end, he'd turned around to Falcone and gone 'There's just one last thing I don't quite understand...'

BANG

Detective Batman gets 'em again...

Detective work is when you put the pieces together to get the big picture. All Bruce/Batman did was follow people he already knew were bad. Anyone can do that, especially if you have money. Begins didn't show him as a smart enough Batman, just a guy following information that anyone could have gotten.

 

[Batphil]

I can see why people weren't satisfied with implicature in the movie, but once you begin to think about the little signs and nods, they actually take up quite a lot of time on screen.

Switching topic slightly, I think the biggest thing BB got wrong, was their usage of the moustache. Where was Alfreds, Falcones, Thomas Waynes? I dont care if Gary Oldman wants all the glory for himself, I better see some sweet facial hair in the sequel...

 

[The Empire Ape]

One thing that really annoys me is the fact that "Batman" is basically the product of R'as Al'Ghul.

 

[MacLeod]

One thing that really annoys me is the fact that "Batman" is basically the product of R'as Al'Ghul.

Not only was he a product of Ra's but if it wasn't for him he wouldn't be Batman and wouldn't have taken up the fight for justice. Batman became the man he is the day his parents died. In Begins he, by chance, became the guy with a mask because Ra's had plans to take over Gotham. There was no huge desire for Bruce to fight criminals from childhood like he was supposed to. The reason I love the Batman character is because of his devotion to everything he does, devotion that started long before anyone even knew what devotion was. Begins showed no desire to fight criminals, and even if it did it happend when Bruce was around 29 years old.

 

[Samurai Pasta]

rory_bat, you're just insane by thinking that Begins is perfect. You're only saying that because you're angry that Begins is being picked apart. Damien Dark, you're just an hypocrite who keeps bashing Begins while being angry that people are bashing Burton's films. Mr. Sock, I never know what the heck you're thinking because you play both sides. MacLeod, you're just a dick period.

Newflash: All of you suck.

 

[GoogleMe94]

I hope he gets better and in which case I'll agree with you. My problem is two fold. One, people on here believe he is a great dective when in the movie it didn't show it. Two, he should have been training to be a great dective since childhood, that is what Batman did. Starting at 29 or 30 to become a dective compared to reading and studying criminals and dective work from a child is a problem in my book. So, maybe he will become better but my point is he should have trained himself more from the begining, not just as an adult. That's why I don't view this as a Batman movie, it's just a vigilante movie, a guy who one day gets pissed and does something about it. Batman becomes Batman the night his parents are born, not at age 29.

i know im not the first one to say this but damn, you hit the nail right on the head. totally agree. i too was a bit confused, i mean, i know this is supposed to be a "realistic" take on batman, so it would be UNrealistic to show bruce wayne training since he was 12 all the way to his 30's. but.......thats the character. see, this is why i think B89 got the origin right, it didnt show HOW he became the character, just glimpses of his past, and you can just assume that he has been training since he was a small child. keatons wayne certainly seems obsessed enough to believe that he would. in BB he was began his "training" when he was a college student. however, comics aside, i think nolan did a fine job with the origin done in a realistic light, but there were times where it kinda dragged. cant wait for TDK, no origin this time! we can go right into the action.

 

[Samurai Pasta]

This message has been deleted by a Burton fan.

 

[GoogleMe94]

samurai sh** head, im gonna report you if you do not stop with the flaming/bashing. i kid you not. all you have done so far is saying that "everyone sux" on this forum. well, if you dont like anyone here, why ARE you here? pfft, i call Troll.

 

[lonzoe]

I guess I'm a d--k too. Because I agree with everything MacLeod said. Thats exactly the way I feel about BB. There's nothing I can find good about BB. Everytime I try to watch BB it just p---es me off. MacLeod you and I are on the same page with BB. I can't believe there's actually a Batman fan who actually feels the same way I felt about BB. I didn't think that was possible. I've been waiting for this thread for two in a half years now. Thanks to MacLeod I don't have to write anything about what BB got wrong because he already said it BETTER than I could. I love this thread because these things that you guys describe were my exact thoughts since opening day. Thanks for this thread.

 

[GoogleMe94]

ok, you have some points and ideas, but the way you say them comes off Troll-ish and mean spirited. your sig shows this very clearly. if you explained a bit better your issues with begins, then maybe ppl would take you seriously, though i dont think you would make many fans lol.

 

[Nightwing1977]

Everytime I try to watch BB it just p---es me off.

If it piss you off, why you continue to watch it? You're in denial, aren't you?

I can't believe there's actually a Batman fan who actually feels the same way I felt about BB.

Those who like BB aren't Batman fans?

And you been waiting for 2 yrs. & a half? More like 10 months, since you didn't join the forum at the time BB came out.

 

[MacLeod]

rory_bat, you're just insane by thinking that Begins is perfect. You're only saying that because you're angry that Begins is being picked apart. Damien Dark, you're just an hypocrite who keeps bashing Begins while being angry that people are bashing Burton's films. Mr. Sock, I never know what the heck you're thinking because you play both sides. MacLeod, you're just a dick period.

Newflash: All of you suck.

I could easily come back with an equal type of retort but that would be immature and make me come to your level of intelligence. Just for now though let's assume I am a dick, I would rather be that and still stand by my opinions rather than have nothing useful to say other than trying to put everyone down. If someone truly has an opinion, positive or negative, they should state it without attempting to bully others by name calling. I suggest you go to the, "I have nothing useful to say" thread, you'll do well there.

 

[MacLeod]

I guess I'm a d--k too. Because I agree with everything MacLeod said. Thats exactly the way I feel about BB. There's nothing I can find good about BB. Everytime I try to watch BB it just p---es me off. MacLeod you and I are on the same page with BB. I can't believe there's actually a Batman fan who actually feels the same way I felt about BB. I didn't think that was possible. I've been waiting for this thread for two in a half years now. Thanks to MacLeod I don't have to write anything about what BB got wrong because he already said it BETTER than I could. I love this thread because these things that you guys describe were my exact thoughts since opening day. Thanks for this thread.

I'm glad there is someone else out there that thinks like me. If people like Begins that's fine but I don't see it as a Batman movie. It's a good movie and it held my interest but I just don't think of Batman any time while watching it. Due to the fact that origin, evengthough it's supposed to be THE origin story, was changed from what Batman really is I can only view Begins as a vigilante movie, a guy who in his late 20's thought about fighting crime. TDK seems like it's going to be even further removed from what I was hoping for. If people like Begins more power to them, I don't see Batman in it. To each his own I guess.

 

[MacLeod]

If it piss you off, why you continue to watch it? You're in denial, aren't you?



Those who like BB aren't Batman fans?

And you been waiting for 2 yrs. & a half? More like 10 months, since you didn't join the forum at the time BB came out.

I still watch Begins when it's on because it's a decent movie and it's the closest thing to Batman on as far as movies are concerned. That doesn't mean I like what I see though, it's because I am a Batman fan that I get caught watching it hoping to like it more than I do. Also, I don't think he was saying that Batman fans should dislike Begins, he was just impressed that there is a Batman fan that thinks like him. The time issue is just an attempt to be picky.

 

[GoogleMe94]

one of my only real major gripes is that while this is supposed to be a batman movie, it doesnt FEEL like one. in fact, the look of the film, ppl in regular clothes and suits, everyone lookin like lawyers (even crane), its like im watching insomnia or any of those other nolan films, like just some average crime drama, or NYPD blue or something. it just doesnt look like a batman movie unless batman or his villians are on the screen. yes, spiderman movies also look a bit today and realistic, but it still feels like a comic book movie, and there are still all those wacky insane fights and elements, those "buuuhahaha" villians and all that. BB didnt know what it was trying to be, its like nolan was embarassed to make it like a comic book movie, so he tried to give it a kind of "crime drama" feel instead.

 

[MacLeod]

one of my only real major gripes is that while this is supposed to be a batman movie, it doesnt FEEL like one. in fact, the look of the film, ppl in regular clothes and suits, everyone lookin like lawyers (even crane), its like im watching insomnia or any of those other nolan films, like just some average crime drama, or NYPD blue or something. it just doesnt look like a batman movie unless batman or his villians are on the screen. yes, spiderman movies also look a bit today and realistic, but it still feels like a comic book movie, and there are still all those wacky insane fights and elements, those "buuuhahaha" villians and all that. BB didnt know what it was trying to be, its like nolan was embarassed to make it like a comic book movie, so he tried to give it a kind of "crime drama" feel instead.

I agree with you, although I never felt like it was a Batman movie. If you felt like that for Begins wait until TDK comes out and you have super chest plate man fighting a guy with paint on his face in something that may or may not feel like a Batman movie again.

 

[Numez]

Why is this thread and its Burton counterpart such failures? They should have been about what you like and dislike, but instead they just turn into threads full of negativity.

 

[MacLeod]

Why is this thread and its Burton counterpart such failures? They should have been about what you like and dislike, but instead they just turn into threads full of negativity.

I can see how that is annoying, especially if you are a Nolan or Burton fan respectively. I'll try to help you out. The pro's - Bale is young and fit, they showed how Batman aquired some tools, Gordon was cast well. The con's - for me, everything else, and I mean everything else. The reason I think this has become such a negative topic is because many people have more cons than anything else as of late. For me, I could go on for hours writing about the negatives and sum up the positives in about 10 seconds.

 

[PizzaManReturns]

I love the warm feeling of Batman Begins and some of the corny dialogue, for me, is actually great. Burton's films are fun, but I prefer Batman Begins.

 

[MacLeod]

I love the warm feeling of Batman Begins and some of the corny dialogue, for me, is actually great. Burton's films are fun, but I prefer Batman Begins.

Warm feelings of a Batman movie? I think right there there is something wrong with it if you get all warm and fuzzy thinking about Batman. Begins didn't do the realistic job it was supposed to if a cozy blanket and Batman are synonomous.