Batman Begins Things Batman Begins got Right/Wrong

[K.B.]

Many of you have already listed what I didn't like about BB so I'l ljust cut and paste here

1)Bruce's motivation to become Batman came from Chill being offered early parole....so had Chill never gotten out of jail there would be no Batman. The comics show that the day his parents died he put himself on the path to becoming Batman.
2)Microwave emitter/gas Gotham plan.
3)Rachel Dawes finding out Bruce was Batman and then the next morning able to diagnose that Bruce is the mask and Batman is the person...wtf.
The admitting that she loves him...that came out of left field.
4)Michael Caine as Alfred. I know everyone loves him but I kept seeing Michael Caine and not Alfred.
5)Gordon as only comic relief
6)Bruce pretty much getting all his equipment from Lucius Fox
7) The only reason we are given to like Fox is because he knew Bruce's dad.
8) stupid rubber suit
9)fight scenes

-Falcone didnt come off as dangerous as as he is in the comics, and he talked like a common hood, like a bad godfather impression. came off more funny then threatning.
-Ras is not a deadly enviromentalist but some kind of nihlist. i dont remember him being like this in the comics.
-"nice coat" "excuse me" "its what i DOOO that defines me". please.
-Flass was totally unlike the comics version, which i felt worked better. he was more deadly and a threat to gordon and his ideas while in the film he was the least threatning corrupt cop ever. lame.
-fight scenes. nuff said.
-scarecrow. looked nothing like in the comics, and certainly wasnt as scary or creepy. and when did scarecrow become a young pretty boy with a whisper?

Cons:

The repeated verbalization of every idea
Lecturing/speechifying from every character Bruce encounters
The way every character fits neatly into their wafer-thin predefined role
Poor and inconsistent motivations
Overly plot driven, too much exposition to rush through so no room to breath
Saintly good guys, cartoon bad guys. Lack of complexity
The excruciating detail of the unimportant and the merest hint of the interesting
Couldn't decide if it was a popcorn film or something serious
Poor flow
Completely out of place 3rd act
Overly sentimental
Music
Disjointed editing

Now lets hear how terrible I am for hating BB

 

[Damiean Dark]

I agree with most of them BB is a good film but i think it was a wasted oppertunity of what could have been amazing film it had it all good director great cast and a clean slate for a new batman interpretation.

but i do think TDK has great potential.

 

[K.B.]

I agree it was a wasted oppertunity. No one was more disappointed opening night then I was and of course (especailly at that time) I became the outsider because I didn't like BB and saw all these flaws with it. It's good people are starting to come around now though but it's still ******ed that if you list even ONE of these as reasons you didn't like BB then all of a sudden "you aren't a batman fan and don't know the character".

I really wish I was as optimistic about TDK but I'm not. I'm simply not. The look for the Joker is just godawful to me and it's only furthered by the stuff the BB lovers say. I will still be first in line opening night and I do pray that TDK kicks a lot more ass then BB did, don't get me wrong, I just am not getting all excited over something thats more then likely going to disappoint this fan.

 

[Lobster Charlie]

Its not realistic for a guy to be obsessed with inducing fear and dress like a Scarecrow to help do so, but its realistic for a guy to dress like a bat and use fear as a weapon? Which is more realitic? Im confused as to the Nolan thought programming on this.

The problem with Begins is they tried to take a comic book character and make him real. In the real world. He's a comic book character. He wouldnt exist in the "real" world.

It's simple---a guy dressed as a bat simply looks better than a guy dressed as a scarecrow--which rarely, if ever, looks "cool."

 

[Lobster Charlie]

Cons-
1)Bruce's motivation to become Batman came from Chill being offered early parole....so had Chill never gotten out of jail there would be no Batman. The comics show that the day his parents died he put himself on the path to becoming Batman.

I don't see how this is a problem, really. This movie is not really about "ifs," it's about what we are shown. And we have no idea if Bruce would've ever found motivation to become Batman in some other fashion, it's all up to the writers.

5)Gordon as only comic relief

Gordon was far mare than just comic relief. Don't let a couple of dud one-liners spoil the entire role for you.

6)Bruce pretty much getting all his equipment from Lucius Fox

The alternative being what, exactly? He made his own cowl and ears, he got the gauntlets from his ninja training, the suit was re-purposed, and he created his own cape. Was he supposed to build his own car?

7) The only reason we are given to like Fox is because he knew Bruce's dad.

This is a bizarre "con." Fox came off as a warm, decent guy. He saved Bruce's life, for God's sake! There's more than just a few reasons to like him, and to smile when he gets that last jab in on Mr. Earle.

 

[sasquatchs]

"The movie is not realistic, because how could it be, but it acts as if it is."

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050613/REVIEWS/50525003/1023

That's what's so bad about it, it doesn't have the well drawn characters or logical plotting of a serious film. Instead of lazily pretending it could have actually been something different. The only necessary leap of faith was a costumed vigilante, but they had to bring in a truckload of poor genre conventions to keep it company. It could have been so much more adventurous and fresh, so far it feels like a wasted opportunity, and their half hearted pretensions just serve to highlight the flaws

 

[roach]

I don't see how this is a problem, really. This movie is not really about "ifs," it's about what we are shown. And we have no idea if Bruce would've ever found motivation to become Batman in some other fashion, it's all up to the writers.

However by moving the moment from the night his parents were killed to the day Joe Chill got offered a deal you take away the importance of his parents death. Bruce got on with his life. That was something I wasnt comfortable with seeing.

Gordon was far mare than just comic relief. Don't let a couple of dud one-liners spoil the entire role for you.

Then what was Gordon. Other than the scene where he gives a Young Bruce his dad's coat he was pretty much the comic relief.



The alternative being what, exactly? He made his own cowl and ears, he got the gauntlets from his ninja training, the suit was re-purposed, and he created his own cape. Was he supposed to build his own car?

No he assembled them. The only thing we know he made was the batarangs(which IMO is a bad design for something that is supposed to be thrown). Yes when you are about to embark on a career of vigilanteism, which is illegal the few people who know or given the opportunity to figure it out the better.You that at least someone other than Morgan Freeman's character built the car/ designed the car/ ran the tests. Maybe they even showcased it to the military.The point I am making is more than Lucius knows about the existance of the Tumbler. Anyone of those people could have seen the televised car chase and known that was the tumbler. See we now have a trail that leads to Waynetech and potentially Bruce Wayne.



This is a bizarre "con." Fox came off as a warm, decent guy. He saved Bruce's life, for God's sake! There's more than just a few reasons to like him, and to smile when he gets that last jab in on Mr. Earle.

We were supposed to like Fox and hate Mr. Earle. What made Mr. Earle a bad guy that Bruce got put him out of a job?? Mr. Earle welcomed Bruce back offered him a position in the company??? What did he do that was so wrong???

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

We were supposed to like Fox and hate Mr. Earle. What made Mr. Earle a bad guy that Bruce got put him out of a job?? Mr. Earle welcomed Bruce back offered him a position in the company??? What did he do that was so wrong???

He hid the fact they lost a microwave emitter that could destroy the entire city and fired Freeman for knowing about it I think.

 

[roach]

I dont think he hid anything. As soon as he found out he went to Fox. If he was covering up the loss of the Microwave Emitter that wasnt brought out.

 

[sasquatchs]

He did try to swindle Bruce out of the company. Poor misunderstood Mr Earle I would have liked more from him, his motivations were a little less cartoony than the other "villains"

 

[roach]

How did he try to swindle Bruce out of the company???
Bruce was declared dead. He was running the company as he saw fit. I didnt see any attempt to swindle Bruce. Hell he offered him a job.

 

[sasquatchs]

Eh? He floated the company without mentioning to Bruce that company control would be taken away from him

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

lol pro Mr. Earle!

 

[roach]

Eh? He floated the company without mentioning to Bruce that company control would be taken away from him

you are reading into things. Bruce never had company control. Mr. Earle tells him as a boy that the Board of Directors will oversea the company until he is ready to take control. Bruce ran away to China when he was still in college. When he was declared dead there was no reason for the Board or Mr. Earle to believe that Bruce was goning to come back.

 

[sasquatchs]

Yea but Earle schemed to permanently remove the possibility of Bruce gaining control, even after his return

Actually I suppose you could say Bruce knew and didn't care about losing the company. Bruce is the sneaky one for pretending to not care. Earle just didn't want the company to fall into the hands of a moron

 

[roach]

lol pro Mr. Earle!

Im not pro Mr. Earle just that the writing was weak in that we werent given a real concrete reason to hate him. I could see if he did swindle Bruce out of control or was running the company into the ground but he wasnt.

 

[sasquatchs]

Not having a strong reason to hate him is a plus point for me, stops it from feeling too artificial. It's not a stretch to say the audience is supposed to dislike him only because he opposes Bruce and his father's ideals

 

[roach]

Yea but Earle schemed to permanently remove the possibility of Bruce gaining control, even after his return

Actually I suppose you could say Bruce knew and didn't care about losing the company. Bruce is the sneaky one for pretending to not care. Earle just didn't want the company to fall into the hands of a moron

again Bruce was declared dead...most people dont come back from that.
The conversation in the office when Bruce gets back tells us that it was too late to stop the company from going public. If Bruce was concerned he could have bought all the shares outright instead of being sneaky about it.

 

[sasquatchs]

It was Earle that moved to have him declared dead!

 

[roach]

Not having a strong reason to hate him is a plus point for me, stops it from feeling too artificial. It's not a stretch to say the audience is supposed to dislike him only because he opposes Bruce and his father's ideals

then that is a weak reason to hate him.

 

[sasquatchs]

Why do we have to hate him?

 

[Lobster Charlie]

Earle led the company into "heavy arms manufacture," which was totally against what Thomas Wayne would've done---this was stated when we get our first glimpse at the current state of Wayne Enterprises. If Earle didn't lead the company this way, we'd never even have seen the microwave emitter.

Earle also kicks Fox off of the board and in an effort to cover up the emitter being lost, FIRES him for no other good reason. There is a also a quick throwaway line where Fox mentions the train system was going to rot due to Earle.

Gordon not only showed he was endearing with Bruce, we are shown that he is one of the last good cops (in his admonishing of Flass' actions, in his defending of Batman's capturing of Falcone, during the conversation on his back porch where we see that he believes in what Batman is doing, in the fact that he helps save Rachel during the Swat raid, in the fact that he knocks Flass out before he could kill those kids in the narrows, in the fact that he gets a bat-signal made just for Batman) and, in his own way, is just as much a hero as Batman.

So they had him go "yes!" in a cheesey way when he blows up the train tracks. So he says "I gotta get me one of those." Big deal. That doesn't erase every other thing the character says and does, and by no means make him purely comic relief.

And clearly Bruce never "got on with his life." He was screwing up in college, and he had no drive or direction as it was clearly shown in the listless look on his face and his flippant attitude toward the house he inherited. Regardless, we are dealing with what *is*, not what could have been. As far as the story goes, it works fine.

As far as getting all of his things from Fox go---it's a decent point. Maybe they'll address that "con" in the next film.

 

[Damiean Dark]

I hate that everything comes from fox even though freeman was great as always wayne not creating his own weapons and equipment dilutes the all round knowledge bruce has for me he is smart sure but i just didnt see the brilliant wayne of the comics.

 

[BubbaGump]

I hate that everything comes from fox even though freeman was great as always wayne not creating his own weapons and equipment dilutes the all round knowledge bruce has for me he is smart sure but i just didnt see the brilliant wayne of the comics.

Wayne created a lot of his own weapons and gadgets.

 

[Nightwing1977]

I hate that everything comes from fox even though freeman was great as always wayne not creating his own weapons and equipment dilutes the all round knowledge bruce has for me he is smart sure but i just didnt see the brilliant wayne of the comics.

Maybe you never read the comics then. Bruce can't make everything like you thought he would. I have Batman #0 & Detective Comics #0. Both show his origin & how he got his stuff. Guess what? One of the stuff he took from his own company was a Batmobile, just like in BB. He did made his Batarangs in the comics too as we see in BB as well. Fox was even in the comics if anyone never pick up a comic or read the origin story. BB surely borrow many things from the comics on how & where he get his toys.

Again, Batman may be smart but he can't do everything. Iron Man is smarter than him. Batman is only smart with using detective skills & making small gadgets, not inventing Batmobile or heavy stuff like that.