Batman Begins Things Batman Begins got Right/Wrong

[Joe Von Zombie]

That's entirely your opinion. Which I think is BULL. What's the point of making a comic book /superhero movie if you want the superhero to be real. Superheroes aren't REAL.All that does is water down what makes that hero super. You want real do a movie about a real life hero and not Batman or any of the others. Punisher would probably work too but Nolan would **** that up as well. Like he got his skull shirt because that's the only shirt he had after his family died and he had no choice but to wear it. He would go so far as to make it as realisic as possible to the point where who cares how he got it and get back to the ****ing movie/plot/story.
By the way BB Batman wasn't as realistic as Nolan wanted Batman to be because that scene where he was hanging 50-100 ft on a rope to a train going 300 mph should've rip his shoulder out of his sockets when he fired that grappling hook. I remember opening day looking at that scene and thinking "What is this Batman Forever?". I guess Nolan decided "**** realism" in the terrible third act eventhough 2/3's of the movie he was already aiming for REALISM. Thats why realism doesn't work for comic book movies as proved by Bateman Begins as well as the X-men movies, yes even the 3rd film. IMO of course.

Thats the thing, Batman isn't a "Superhero," he wasn't bitten by a radioactive spider, doesn't have mutant special abilities,wasn't sent here from a distant world, he's a vigilante, an ordinary man with a mission that makes mistakes along the way. If Batman is a "superhero" than so is Dexter Morgan and Connor and Murphy McManus.

 

[Spider-Bat]

Batman Begins, got the suit wrong, got Ra's wrong, got scarecrow wrong, Nolan sucks and is too dull.

They got the music wrong, and the fight scenes were wrong.

 

[Spider-Bat]

That's entirely your opinion. Which I think is BULL. What's the point of making a comic book /superhero movie if you want the superhero to be real. Superheroes aren't REAL.All that does is water down what makes that hero super. You want real do a movie about a real life hero and not Batman or any of the others. Punisher would probably work too but Nolan would **** that up as well. Like he got his skull shirt because that's the only shirt he had after his family died and he had no choice but to wear it. He would go so far as to make it as realisic as possible to the point where who cares how he got it and get back to the ****ing movie/plot/story.
By the way BB Batman wasn't as realistic as Nolan wanted Batman to be because that scene where he was hanging 50-100 ft on a rope to a train going 300 mph should've rip his shoulder out of his sockets when he fired that grappling hook. I remember opening day looking at that scene and thinking "What is this Batman Forever?". I guess Nolan decided "**** realism" in the terrible third act eventhough 2/3's of the movie he was already aiming for REALISM. Thats why realism doesn't work for comic book movies as proved by Bateman Begins as well as the X-men movies, yes even the 3rd film. IMO of course.

I agree big time. Realism doesn't belong in comic book movies whether the hero has powers or not. Batman is considered a Superhero. And even if he doesn't have powers what he does do is hightened reality anyway and his villians have powers, not all but some. It is a coic book and you have some morons who just don't care and don't read comics and they come on here thinking they know what they're talking about but they don't know these characters!

Pathetic idiots. They are sheep who jump on the bandwagon and think they know film and all that comes out of their mouths is crap.

I don't care what any of the sheep say or think. BB's no big deal and TDK isn't going to be much better. The Joker's not even the Joker.

Heath was all wrong.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Why so serious?

 

[Nightwing1977]

I agree big time. Realism doesn't belong in comic book movies whether the hero has powers or not. Batman is considered a Superhero. And even if he doesn't have powers what he does do is hightened reality anyway and his villians have powers, not all but some. It is a coic book and you have some morons who just don't care and don't read comics and they come on here thinking they know what they're talking about but they don't know these characters!

Pathetic idiots. They are sheep who jump on the bandwagon and think they know film and all that comes out of their mouths is crap.

I don't care what any of the sheep say or think. BB's no big deal and TDK isn't going to be much better. The Joker's not even the Joker.

Heath was all wrong.

Wow. You're so immature & hateful. And for your info., even a lot of Batman fans who read comic books like BB. So much for sheep & morons who don't read comics if they like what you don't. Nice to see you have no class with dissing Heath. :rolleyes

 

[Kelly]

That's entirely your opinion. Which I think is BULL. What's the point of making a comic book /superhero movie if you want the superhero to be real. Superheroes aren't REAL.All that does is water down what makes that hero super. You want real do a movie about a real life hero and not Batman or any of the others. Punisher would probably work too but Nolan would **** that up as well. Like he got his skull shirt because that's the only shirt he had after his family died and he had no choice but to wear it. He would go so far as to make it as realisic as possible to the point where who cares how he got it and get back to the ****ing movie/plot/story.
By the way BB Batman wasn't as realistic as Nolan wanted Batman to be because that scene where he was hanging 50-100 ft on a rope to a train going 300 mph should've rip his shoulder out of his sockets when he fired that grappling hook. I remember opening day looking at that scene and thinking "What is this Batman Forever?". I guess Nolan decided "**** realism" in the terrible third act eventhough 2/3's of the movie he was already aiming for REALISM. Thats why realism doesn't work for comic book movies as proved by Bateman Begins as well as the X-men movies, yes even the 3rd film. IMO of course.

Lonzoe, please do not bypass the censors again.....let them do their job.

I agree big time. Realism doesn't belong in comic book movies whether the hero has powers or not. Batman is considered a Superhero. And even if he doesn't have powers what he does do is hightened reality anyway and his villians have powers, not all but some. It is a coic book and you have some morons who just don't care and don't read comics and they come on here thinking they know what they're talking about but they don't know these characters!

Pathetic idiots. They are sheep who jump on the bandwagon and think they know film and all that comes out of their mouths is crap.

I don't care what any of the sheep say or think. BB's no big deal and TDK isn't going to be much better. The Joker's not even the Joker.

Heath was all wrong.

Spider-Bat, you have your opinion and thats great, and you have every right to give it, but there is no need to call those that have a different opinion pathetic idiots, sheep, and the rest.........

Tone your posts down....just because you say "them" and not a specific poster doesn't make it right. Tone it down.

 

[zanos]

The one aspect of BB which Nolan got unbelievably wrong was how realistic he made it because you are just limiting the kind of stories you can tell not to mention you remind ppl how incredibly stupid someone in the real world would look wearing a bat suit fighting crime. The idea should be to make Batman realistic within the context of his imaginary world not bring an imaginary character into the real world.

 

[GoogleMe94]

The one aspect of BB which Nolan got unbelievably wrong was how realistic he made it because you are just limiting the kind of stories you can tell not to mention you remind ppl how incredibly stupid someone in the real world would look wearing a bat suit fighting crime. The idea should be to make Batman realistic within the context of his imaginary world not bring an imaginary character into the real world.

totally agree. i dont mean to sound like a "burtoman" guy, but this is one thing that burton got completely right. he made batman realistic yet surreal at the same time. and your right, it does limit the kind of stuff you can tell. in burtons world, i could imagine some pretty far out stuff, but i cant really picture mr freeze freezing ppl, or a guy made completely of clay. however, with schumacher i can picture some really crazy unrealistic fantasy stuff happening, but i cant picture anything normal or more grounded in his movies because his style was WAAY over the top. he even managed to take a realistic character like twoface and make him very over the top. and in nolans batman world.....anyone with any kinda of superpower is not allowed, period. but i think out of all them, burton got the right feel, grounded fantasy is what i like to call it. he wasnt TOO over the top, but he certainly wasnt normal/completely realistic either.

 

[GoogleMe94]

Wow. You're so immature & hateful. And for your info., even a lot of Batman fans who read comic books like BB. So much for sheep & morons who don't read comics if they like what you don't. Nice to see you have no class with dissing Heath. :rolleyes

just because someone died doesnt make all there work "good" or "great", nor does it make spiderbats opinions mean or hateful. its just his opinion, and mine as well. some of heaths past stuff really SUCKS, while some of his more recent stuff is actually very good. cant say anything about his joker yet, but from what i can tell from the trailer, he doesnt exactly strike me as "Joker", more "psychopath with bad makeup job". if christian bale died today, i would feel sad and mournful, but i would still think his batman was just really crappy. bruce wayne was OK, his batman was way over the top and IMO was more like an SNL parody version of batman, with that silly roar.

 

[GoogleMe94]

Thats the thing, Batman isn't a "Superhero," he wasn't bitten by a radioactive spider, doesn't have mutant special abilities,wasn't sent here from a distant world, he's a vigilante, an ordinary man with a mission that makes mistakes along the way. If Batman is a "superhero" than so is Dexter Morgan and Connor and Murphy McManus.

im tired of all this "batman isnt really exactly technically a SUPER hero cuz he just a human has no powers, etc etc" BS. most ppl perceive him as a superhero cuz he does super incredible deeds and does things that no other human being would probably ever do, hence why hes labled as a superhero. this is such an old argument, and a useless one, cuz ppl will continue to call him a superhero long after we are gone.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Joe Chill was apparently only there as a pawn for a bigger reason. I'm not crazy about that either. I was excited to hear Joe Chill was in the movie but then seriously disappointed on how and why he was shown. The way it was written made it seem as if anyone could have killed the Wayne's, having the name of Joe Chill didn't matter.

I think that was kinda the point. The elusive, larger-than-life boogeyman was replaced by...just a guy. SImilarly, the dramatic slow-motion theatrics of B89 are replaced with a murder that is blunt and ugly. It really emphasises that the Waynes' death was an act of pointless brutality, something that really could have happened to anyone.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I can see how that is annoying, especially if you are a Nolan or Burton fan respectively. I'll try to help you out. The pro's - Bale is young and fit, they showed how Batman aquired some tools, Gordon was cast well. The con's - for me, everything else, and I mean everything else. The reason I think this has become such a negative topic is because many people have more cons than anything else as of late. For me, I could go on for hours writing about the negatives and sum up the positives in about 10 seconds.

I don't think these threads get negative because there's more bad than good in "Begins". A look at the critical consensus and the iMDB rating for "Begins" is enough to confirm that much more people like this film than hate it.

Threads like this and its Burton counterpart tend to focus on the negative, because that's the way just about all forum discussion tends to go. People love to moan and complain, while people who gush and praise are made to feel guilty for doing so by the bashing they get from the moaners.

 

[Keyser Soze]

And now that I've taken several steps back from it (BB being a 2-y-o movie now), yeah, it isn't the best movie ever. But it is my favorite? Good luck wiping the idiotic, geeky, gleeful grin off my face after that last scene with Gordon and Bats. t:

You make a great point here, and one I've argued about with others extensively in the past. There's a difference between "the best films" and the films we rank as our favourites. Last time I started compiling a Top 100 Films, I ranked "Begins" in at around #10, putting it above a whole lot of films which were technically superior, but didn't connect with me as a viewer and as a fan the way "Begins" did.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I agree with this. keaton was a better Bruce while Bale had the potential to be a better Batman. Keaton's Bruce regularly reviews his parents files and relives the moments.The first Bruce scene from BR showed how nutty he was without any dialogue

Are we thinking of the same scene? It's been a while since I watched "Returns", but are you talking about the scene where, as Bruce Wayne, he's just sitting in his study, in the dark, staring into space, waiting for the Bat Signal? If you are, I agree. I think that's the most perfect Bruce Wayne moment of either of the Burton films.

 

[Keyser Soze]

That's entirely your opinion. Which I think is BULL. What's the point of making a comic book /superhero movie if you want the superhero to be real. Superheroes aren't REAL.All that does is water down what makes that hero super. You want real do a movie about a real life hero and not Batman or any of the others. Punisher would probably work too but Nolan would **** that up as well. Like he got his skull shirt because that's the only shirt he had after his family died and he had no choice but to wear it. He would go so far as to make it as realisic as possible to the point where who cares how he got it and get back to the ****ing movie/plot/story.
By the way BB Batman wasn't as realistic as Nolan wanted Batman to be because that scene where he was hanging 50-100 ft on a rope to a train going 300 mph should've rip his shoulder out of his sockets when he fired that grappling hook. I remember opening day looking at that scene and thinking "What is this Batman Forever?". I guess Nolan decided "**** realism" in the terrible third act eventhough 2/3's of the movie he was already aiming for REALISM. Thats why realism doesn't work for comic book movies as proved by Bateman Begins as well as the X-men movies, yes even the 3rd film. IMO of course.

Don't get your panties in a twist, the guy was just expressing his opinion. If you want to disagree with people's pro-Begins views, that's fine. But take a page out of the book of someone like Macleod or roach, and don't do it like a petulant child throwing a tantrum.

Oh, and "The Punisher" was awful. "Batman Begins" pretty much got everything right that "The Punisher" got spectacularly wrong. "Begins" may have its flaws, but watching the abortion that is "The Punisher" gives me a whole new appreciation for it.

 

[lonzoe]

Don't get your panties in a twist, the guy was just expressing his opinion. If you want to disagree with people's pro-Begins views, that's fine. But take a page out of the book of someone like Macleod or roach, and don't do it like a petulant child throwing a tantrum.

Oh, and "The Punisher" was awful. "Batman Begins" pretty much got everything right that "The Punisher" got spectacularly wrong. "Begins" may have its flaws, but watching the abortion that is "The Punisher" gives me a whole new appreciation for it.

Yeah if you're talking about the Dolph Lundgren one. Again that's your opinion. I'm a big Batman and Punisher fan and I remember walking out happy with that film and with the free spidey comic (that introduced the Punisher) that came with the ticket opening weekend. Now with Baleman-- or was it Bateman Begins, I refuse to say the real title because I sure as hell didn't think Batman when I saw it opening day on my ****ing BIRTHDAY.That was a disappointing birthday present walking in thinking this going to be THE DEFINITIVE BATMAN MOVIE and it can't go wrong. WRONG. This movie turned out to be another Batman/Comic Book/Superhero movie with a lot of flaews that I can write a hundred books with.I expected and wanted something that I never seen before from any of the Batman movies and cartoons as well superhero/ comic book movies that came before it. It was the same BS to me .After seeing that DISAPPOINTMENT I had even more appreciation for the 2004 Punisher movie. This is really going to p--s some of you off but even Superman Returns wash that BAD taste out of my mouth called Bateman Begins and I'm not a HUGE Superman fan either. The punisher (2004) took a lot stuff out of Ennis' comics notably "Welcome Back Frank" . And did a better job than Nolan did with the NODS that seemed forced so the fanboys would drool all over there d--k. Bottomline Begins lovers are easily impressed and easily pleased compared to the Superman/Spiderman/X-men, etc. fans this fanbase is the most easiest to please, IMO. I guess Nolan's got to really foul up in order for you to notice how WRONG this guy was for this FRANCHISE. But knowing some of you guys a Nolan foul up is better than most comic book movies or movies. So it's like beating a DEAD horse.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Yeah if you're talking about the Dolph Lundgren one. Again that's your opinion. I'm a big Batman and Punisher fan and I remember walking out happy with that film and with the free spidey comic (that introduced the Punisher) that came with the ticket opening weekend. Now with Baleman-- or was it Bateman Begins, I refuse to say the real title because I sure as hell didn't think Batman when I saw it opening day on my f--king BIRTHDAY.That was a disappointing birthday present walking in thinking this going to be THE DEFINITIVE BATMAN MOVIE and it can't go wrong. WRONG. This movie turned out to be another Batman/Comic Book/Superhero movie with a lot of flaews that I can write a hundred books with.I expected and wanted something that I never seen before from any of the Batman movies and cartoons as well superhero/ comic book movies that came before it. It was the same BS to me .After seeing that DISAPPOINTMENT I had even more appreciation for the 2004 Punisher movie. This is really going to p--s some of you off but even Superman Returns wash that BAD taste out of my mouth called Bateman Begins and I'm not a HUGE Superman fan either. The punisher (2004) took a lot stuff out of Ennis' comics notably "Welcome Back Frank" . And did a better job than Nolan did with the NODS that seemed forced so the fanboys would drool all over there d--k. Bottomline Begins lovers are easily impressed and easily pleased compared to the Superman/Spiderman/X-men, etc. fans this fanbase is the most easiest to please, IMO. I guess Nolan's got to really foul up in order for you to notice how WRONG this guy was for this FRANCHISE. But knowing some of you guys a Nolan foul up is better than most comic book movies or movies. So it's like beating a DEAD horse.

Once again, you carry yourself with totally the wrong attitude. Saying "The Punisher" from 2004 is better than "Batman Begins" is a pretty out-there statement to make in the first place - somewhat akin to saying "The Phantom Menace" is better than "The Empire Strikes Back", or "Octopussy" is better than "Goldfinger - but if you at least presented your reasons in a civilised, coherent manner, they would be somewhat respected.

However, you fail to do even this. In earlier posts, you insult people and call them names for merely liking "Begins", and here you make the ludicrous claim that "Begins" is only popular because Batman fans are easier to please than any other fans and because they, in your crude words, "drool on Nolan's dick." Yeah, I guess all those critics that gave "Begins" 5-star reviews (to go with the 2-star reviews for The Punisher) despite having never read a comic in their lives were just biased Batman fanboys. This may be a crazy, radical statement for you, but perhaps the people who say they like "Begins" aren't just lying to themselves to push some pro-Nolan agenda. Perhaps they ACTUALLY like it!

Here's the way I look at it. Back in 2004, when I saw "The Punisher", I was actually EMBARASSED. I was watching with my non-comic-fan friends, and they laughed their asses off at the lameness of the whole affair. And I don't blame them, I laughed too, when I wasn't cringing. It was corny beyond belief. I got mocked for months afterwards - "so, THATS why you like comics, huh?" - because of the utter crapness of that film. And you know what finally shut them up? "Batman Begins". The film blew them away just as much as it blew me away. And since seeing the film, one of those friends actually got into the Batman comics.

As for comic-book faithfulness, I can't seem to remember The Punisher being a spineless ***** who only shoots people when they're about to shoot him, or who cowers in his hiding place letting an innocent victim get tortured in his place. And ask yourself this - which film's getting a sequel that is set to be the biggest film of the summer, and which film's getting a sequel that was barely greenlit after the spectacular flop of the original at the box office?

 

[Nightwing1977]

Yeah if you're talking about the Dolph Lundgren one. Again that's your opinion. I'm a big Batman and Punisher fan and I remember walking out happy with that film and with the free spidey comic (that introduced the Punisher) that came with the ticket opening weekend. Now with Baleman-- or was it Bateman Begins, I refuse to say the real title because I sure as hell didn't think Batman when I saw it opening day on my f--king BIRTHDAY.That was a disappointing birthday present walking in thinking this going to be THE DEFINITIVE BATMAN MOVIE and it can't go wrong. WRONG. This movie turned out to be another Batman/Comic Book/Superhero movie with a lot of flaews that I can write a hundred books with.I expected and wanted something that I never seen before from any of the Batman movies and cartoons as well superhero/ comic book movies that came before it. It was the same BS to me .After seeing that DISAPPOINTMENT I had even more appreciation for the 2004 Punisher movie. This is really going to p--s some of you off but even Superman Returns wash that BAD taste out of my mouth called Bateman Begins and I'm not a HUGE Superman fan either. The punisher (2004) took a lot stuff out of Ennis' comics notably "Welcome Back Frank" . And did a better job than Nolan did with the NODS that seemed forced so the fanboys would drool all over there d--k. Bottomline Begins lovers are easily impressed and easily pleased compared to the Superman/Spiderman/X-men, etc. fans this fanbase is the most easiest to please, IMO. I guess Nolan's got to really foul up in order for you to notice how WRONG this guy was for this FRANCHISE. But knowing some of you guys a Nolan foul up is better than most comic book movies or movies. So it's like beating a DEAD horse.

Didn't Kel warned you to knock it off with that attitude of calling fans who love BB as sheep & putting them down? Not to mention the language too. Grow up & deal with that some not always love what you don't. You really don't know how to respect other's opinions, even if you disagree with it. And turn off your bold letters. We're not blind.

And some of us who like are fanboys? Aren't you the same way with bringing up "Welcome Back, Frank" for the 2004 Punisher film? Man, you're a hypocrite for that. And at least the Batman franchise under Nolan is going well, while Punisher is going the crapper. Sorry, but Punisher is only better than "Batman & Robin" bar none.

 

[lonzoe]

Didn't Kel warned you to knock it off with that attitude of calling fans who love BB as sheep & putting them down? Not to mention the language too. Grow up & deal with that some not always love what you don't. You really don't know how to respect other's opinions, even if you disagree with it. And turn off your bold letters. We're not blind.

And some of us who like are fanboys? Aren't you the same way with bringing up "Welcome Back, Frank" for the 2004 Punisher film? Man, you're a hypocrite for that. And at least the Batman franchise under Nolan is going well, while Punisher is going the crapper. Sorry, but Punisher is only better than "Batman & Robin" bar none.

First off mind your own business. Second it's a FREE country. I talk the way I want.Third thats your opinion about punisher being better than B&R bar none.Of course it's better than B&R in fact that's why people cut Baleman Begins some slack because Joel didn't make it.I didn't call fans sheep.We'll see if the franchise goes well now that your person on your avatar has passed away. The sequels are probably screwed now. Now go finish putting on your Joker make up on in your basement. CLOWN.There Kel I sugar coated it for you.

 

[Keyser Soze]

First off mind your own business. Second it's a FREE country. I talk the way I want.Third thats your opinion about punisher being better than B&R bar none.Of course it's better than B&R in fact that's why people cut Baleman Begins some slack because Joel didn't make it.I didn't call fans sheep.We'll see if the franchise goes well now that your person on your avatar has passed away. The sequels are probably screwed now. Now go finish putting on your Joker make up on in your basement. CLOWN.There Kel I sugar coated it for you.

Wow, someone acting happy and triumphant that Heath Ledger is dead, because it hurts Nolan's Batman films. I think that's a new low, even for the Batboards...

 

[StylishHokie21]

Yeah if you're talking about the Dolph Lundgren one. Again that's your opinion. I'm a big Batman and Punisher fan and I remember walking out happy with that film and with the free spidey comic (that introduced the Punisher) that came with the ticket opening weekend. Now with Baleman-- or was it Bateman Begins, I refuse to say the real title because I sure as hell didn't think Batman when I saw it opening day on my ****ing BIRTHDAY.That was a disappointing birthday present walking in thinking this going to be THE DEFINITIVE BATMAN MOVIE and it can't go wrong. WRONG. This movie turned out to be another Batman/Comic Book/Superhero movie with a lot of flaews that I can write a hundred books with.I expected and wanted something that I never seen before from any of the Batman movies and cartoons as well superhero/ comic book movies that came before it. It was the same BS to me .After seeing that DISAPPOINTMENT I had even more appreciation for the 2004 Punisher movie. This is really going to p--s some of you off but even Superman Returns wash that BAD taste out of my mouth called Bateman Begins and I'm not a HUGE Superman fan either. The punisher (2004) took a lot stuff out of Ennis' comics notably "Welcome Back Frank" . And did a better job than Nolan did with the NODS that seemed forced so the fanboys would drool all over there d--k. Bottomline Begins lovers are easily impressed and easily pleased compared to the Superman/Spiderman/X-men, etc. fans this fanbase is the most easiest to please, IMO. I guess Nolan's got to really foul up in order for you to notice how WRONG this guy was for this FRANCHISE. But knowing some of you guys a Nolan foul up is better than most comic book movies or movies. So it's like beating a DEAD horse.

Batman Begins had flaws, but you're saying the Punisher had none? Give me a break.

 

[lonzoe]

Once again, you carry yourself with totally the wrong attitude. Saying "The Punisher" from 2004 is better than "Batman Begins" is a pretty out-there statement to make in the first place - somewhat akin to saying "The Phantom Menace" is better than "The Empire Strikes Back", or "Octopussy" is better than "Goldfinger - but if you at least presented your reasons in a civilised, coherent manner, they would be somewhat respected.

However, you fail to do even this. In earlier posts, you insult people and call them names for merely liking "Begins", and here you make the ludicrous claim that "Begins" is only popular because Batman fans are easier to please than any other fans and because they, in your crude words, "drool on Nolan's dick." Yeah, I guess all those critics that gave "Begins" 5-star reviews (to go with the 2-star reviews for The Punisher) despite having never read a comic in their lives were just biased Batman fanboys. This may be a crazy, radical statement for you, but perhaps the people who say they like "Begins" aren't just lying to themselves to push some pro-Nolan agenda. Perhaps they ACTUALLY like it!

Here's the way I look at it. Back in 2004, when I saw "The Punisher", I was actually EMBARASSED. I was watching with my non-comic-fan friends, and they laughed their asses off at the lameness of the whole affair. And I don't blame them, I laughed too, when I wasn't cringing. It was corny beyond belief. I got mocked for months afterwards - "so, THATS why you like comics, huh?" - because of the utter crapness of that film. And you know what finally shut them up? "Batman Begins". The film blew them away just as much as it blew me away. And since seeing the film, one of those friends actually got into the Batman comics.

As for comic-book faithfulness, I can't seem to remember The Punisher being a spineless ***** who only shoots people when they're about to shoot him, or who cowers in his hiding place letting an innocent victim get tortured in his place. And ask yourself this - which film's getting a sequel that is set to be the biggest film of the summer, and which film's getting a sequel that was barely greenlit after the spectacular flop of the original at the box office?

You're telling me that if saying TP (2004) is better than Bateman Begins is a pretty out there statement is your opinion. I hear people say Batman Returns, Catwoman, Fantasic Four movies, Spidey 3, Transformers,etc. is better than Superman Returns. I heard some people say the Punisher (2004) was better than Spidey 2. Whats your point opinions are opinions. I didn't say "drool on Nolans BLANK" .I said" drool on their blank," as in the fans. Read carefully next time instead of speed reading through it. The reason critics loved BB because it finally told his origins or what I like to say was took the MYSTERY away from Batman, and focused on Batman and less on the villains. As long as it didn't have nipples and buttshots and neon lights it was fine with them. I'll say it again the reason why people cut BB some slack because Joel did't make it. By the way SR got good reviews a lot of the FANBOYS moan and whine about that movie what's your point. Mike Clark from USA today gave BB **1/2 while he gave TP (2004) ***. This is the guy who Spidey #1 ***1/2 and Spidey 2 and The Incredibles ****. Also Peter Travers from the Rolling Stones gave Hellboy, The Punisher, Superman Returns, and Bateman Begins ***. What is your FREAKIN point? I just laugh at some of the critics who say "they finally got it right," like Ebert and Roeper do. When Roeper reviewed X3 he says"fans who read the X-men files." These guys think they get comics when really they're pretending they do as evidence is above. The only critic that I read that reads comics and really GOT BB was Marnohla(Sp?) Dargis from the NY times eventhough I don't agree with her opinion on it because she loved it.

Your friends were laughing at TP(2004) at the theater huh. So they were laughing at how Franks entire family got killed and Frank got beat up afterwards, Saint killed his wife by throwing her off a bridge and on to train tracks so she could get ran over by a train, when Saint killed his best friend by stabbing him to death with a knife because he thought he was having an affair with his wife,and Dave got his piercings pulled out by Saint's gang. Your friends are very immature. Now if they were laughing at the scenes that were suppose to be funny then they aren't. I think the real question is did you make that up because for all I know you could've imagined that you had friends I mean your user name is "Keyser Soze" hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I think you did make them up. You probably don't even have any friends so you imagine them instead.

In the comics the Punisher was inspired by westerns and the Death Wish movies so if you are complaining about how the punisher has a line up with Saint and the scene at the bank. The comics were inspired by that. The punisher did not cower off in his hiding place. He was unconcious . Joan, Dave and Bumbo were hiding him from the mob just like the comics did. So the punisher in the comics must be a ***** too then huh. BTW, after being stabbed, getting your head slammed with the refridgerator 3 -5 times, choked repeatedly, throwned through a wall, knocked through someone else's apartment door, and falling through a flight of stairs. I wouldn't blame Frank from passing out from that. Most people would be dead from that or knocked out from the first punch the Russian gave him. At least Frank still beat the Russian instead of letting Bumbo sit on the Russian untill he died of no oxygen. No offense to the comics. Bales the ***** in BB. He got flamed by a dork who wears a potatosack bag on his face and a calls himself scarecrow when he sure as heck doesn't look are even act scary IMO. A taser in the mouth by a pathetic excuse of an assisant DA could take him out only for Gordon to tell Baleman and the audience that scarecrow was on the loose. Realism my BUTT. Bale let Ra's Al Ducard die instead of bringing him in. I guess he was scared that Ra's would tell the police and prisoners that Wayne was Batman and didn't want to risk it. He didn't achieve nothing that night. Lucius Q made the antidotes. Alfred had to get Rachel home asumming that she'll wake up in time to give one of the antidotes to Gordon so he could drive the tumbler and destroy the tracks on the Monorail so it could destroy the train that has the stupid MiCROWAVE EMITTER. BTW how did Alfred know where Rachel lived. He even had a key to her house or apartment apparently. When her purse was not with her when Batman "SAVED"her. He also saved Baleman from being cooked. The prisoners in Arkham escaped. Bales's house was destroyed. The monorail and narrows was destroyed. Scarecrow escaped. Ra's al Ducard was left for dead again by bateman. Somehow he's allowed to have his own signal. He did not EARN it because he was not a hero,IMO. It's too early for him to have it anyways. Should've waited until Gordon was Commish. A lot of people konw his identity Ras al Ducard and the LOS, Rachel Dawson, and Lucius Q. That guy is not Batman but Baleman and Bateman. Another scene Bale act like a scared little boy was the scene where the zombies A.K.A. Chicagothamites who were hallucinating over the fear gas were grabbing him. Bale was screaming and grabbed his bat gun shot it on the train which broke the laws of physics that whole scene after. He should've pushed them all off him like the animated series did in a similar episode and then grab the grappling hook and escaped.

I don't have to ask myself that because I really am not happy with both sequels coming out I think you know why on TDK but Punisher is going to be a vague sequel and Jane's not back the same for Hensleigh.

 

[lonzoe]

Batman Begins had flaws, but you're saying the Punisher had none? Give me a break.

Where did I say the punisher (2004) didn't have flaws ? Just because I didn't mention it and won't. Doesn't mean it didn't have flaws. All I said is that "I prefer it over Baleman Begins." Now get off my back. This thread is now turning into The Punisher vs Bateman Begins. Not things that Bateman Begins got wrong. I didn't add "right" because I heard 2 1/2 years of CRAP this movie got right. And IMO what this movie got right wasn't even right, so there.

Man! I'm getting tired of this CRAP.

 

[lonzoe]

Wow, someone acting happy and triumphant that Heath Ledger is dead, because it hurts Nolan's Batman films. I think that's a new low, even for the Batboards...

Actually I was not happy to hear Heath was found dead last week. I was as shocked as everyone else was up here. He was the only REASON TDK was getting my ticket because he look like he was going to put much needed energy Baleman Begins lacked. I admit I crossed the line with that comment I made. I'm sorry for saying that and offending any FANS. The point I was making was this movie was going to make a lot of DOUGH because the Joker was in it and Ledgers take was interesting audiences. Now that he passed away the 3rd batman film in Nolan's saga was suppose to have the joker in there. It might not happen or if it does happen it might not make as much as TDK assuming that TDK is a HUGE hit. I was wrong to say that. Really I was just so TICKED at Nolan's first film that I wanted him to leave the franchise. Because my expectations were so high for that movie and diodn't live up to them IMO.I took it too far with Ledger and I'm sorry. But I'm not sorry for what I said about Bateman Begins and the Punisher (2004) being a "better" film. To end this Punsher and BB argument is this you guys love BB and despise the Punisher I was disappointed by BB but ENJOYED Punisher "04". We are never going to see eye to eye on this and we keep going around in circles so let's end this punisher /BB argument and get back on topic about things BB got right and wrong. And I'm sorry for what I said about Ledger. May he R.I.P.

 

[Nightwing1977]

It may be a free country, but there are certain rules you have to follow when you joined here, lonzoe. And if you sick of this crap & such, why are you still posting here?

And bringing up Heath's death? You're a real, insensitive jerk, you know that? Such immature & childish person you are with your whining & hateful comments. You should know they can continue the franchise without Heath or even the Joker. Ever heard of Two-Face, Riddler, Bane, Black Mask, etc.?