Transformers This is how transformers should have been approached

[Hotwire]

You act as if this is THE script John Rogers was born to write. This is the guy that gave us Catwoman. He didn't need to be writing this script. Sadly Orci and Kurtzman's "additions" (Bayisms) to the script (a requirement before Bay would sign on to the project) probably just made it worse.

All I'm saying, since you obviously have a proble with they way the script was written, show me a better job. Are there a bunch of other scripts by different writers floating around out there?? Are there other director who wanted the job?? If not, then this is the best we could get. To quote my favorite band, "Sad, but true."

 

[Anti-Moderator]

I would rather have NO Transformers movie than one that has been half-assed. That is what this film feels like to me so far.

 

[CFlash]

My point was simply about making assumtions on minimal info. Nothing more.

That's the thing ain't it though. It's not minimal info that we have. We have lots and lots of info. Plus we also both Michael Bay's, Don Murphy's (LXG), and John Rogers (Catwoman) track record... not to mention the guys who touched up the draft for Bay. You put it all together and... well... you know.

 

[thegameq]

[Stands up and applauds!!]

If only they all took that approach to the fantasy/scifi genre, it would be more respected and we would have much better films than the usual treatment the genre is given.

BRAVO PETER JACKSON! BRAVO!

 

[The Guard]

That's the thing ain't it though. It's not minimal info that we have. We have lots and lots of info. Plus we also both Michael Bay's, Don Murphy's (LXG), and John Rogers (Catwoman) track record... not to mention the guys who touched up the draft for Bay. You put it all together and... well... you know.

You have lots of info, but you seem to pick and choose what to bring into consideration. You base how this will do on each person's worst project? Bravo. Michael Bay has directed ARMAGEDDON, THE ISLAND, THE ROCK, BAD BOYS and BAD BOYS II. Each a commercial success, none of which can truly be considered a bad movie. Each with solid to fantastic acting, story, etc. I consider him a fairly young director. He's an action director. But he's a damned good one.

John Rogers is not a wunderkind, but he's a solid writer, and his CATWOMAN script actually wasn't that bad. What was awful...was what happened when everyone ELSE got ahold of the CATWOMAN script (allegedly something like 8 or 9 ghostwriters). Trust me. I read about nine drafts of CATWOMAN from 1993 on, and Rogers came the closest, as far as I'm concerned, to anything that might conceiveably work. He's also written AMERICAN OUTLAWS and THE CORE, which weren't brilliant, but weren't terrible, either.
Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci have the following to their credit: MI: 3, THE LEGEND OF ZORRO, THE ISLAND, ALIAS, HERCULES. Hardly a track record to simply dismiss.

Don Murphy is hardly the only producer on this film, and he hasn't only produced LXG, he's also been involved in NATURAL BORN KILLERS, FROM HELL, and APT PUPIL. And he produced the original TRANSFORMERS: THE MOVIE. You're also apparently forgetting about a fellow named Spielberg (we know his track record) and I believe a fellow named DeSanto is involved (we know his track record, too).

 

[CFlash]

^ ^ ^ ^

Funny you mention Natural Born Killers. That movie is god-aweful. According to Quenten Tarantino they completely murdered his script. He hates Don Murphy so much he punched him in public once.

Apt Pupil is not AT ALL what it could have been considering its source (the novella). It's pretty well known that Singer was hampered by what he could and couldn't do.. in order to make the movie marketable. What you end up is a well made movie (because he's a good filmmaker) but not a particularly STRONG movie.

As for everything else... well, you seem to think mediocrity is OK. Excuse me for always believing that Transformers could have been a GREAT and thought-provoking sci-fi movie.... NOT Armageddon!!!

[edit]
P.S. I just reread your post. I found it funnier the second time.
I was reminded of something I used to say as joke when I was younger: Mediocrity rules!!!

 

[The Guard]

Is anything what it could have been? Do you actually like anything?

 

[CFlash]

Is anything what it could have been? Do you actually like anything?

I like lots of things. Particularly, good filmmaking as an art. Movies that make me think. There's lots of it out there. Contrary to my posts here I'm not a die-hard about faithfulness when the "adaptations" add to the overriding subtext of the source.

I don't care that Spidey met so-and-so before Mary Jane. I loved Spider-man... and I consider Spider-man 2 one of the best movies of ALL TIME. I even like the silly.... Pirates is pure genius.

What I can't stand is Hollywood Fluff that is devoid of any artistic merit. The Van Helsings, The Independence Days, the Godzilla 98's. The Pearl Harbors. Those I do think are devoid of ANY merit. They are "watchable" (barely) but they're not great by any means.

I wanted Transformers to be great. You seem to be content with it being about as good as League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

 

[big D Evil]

You have lots of info, but you seem to pick and choose what to bring into consideration. You base how this will do on each person's worst project? Bravo. Michael Bay has directed ARMAGEDDON, THE ISLAND, THE ROCK, BAD BOYS and BAD BOYS II. Each a commercial success, none of which can truly be considered a bad movie. Each with solid to fantastic acting, story, etc. I consider him a fairly young director. He's an action director. But he's a damned good one.

John Rogers is not a wunderkind, but he's a solid writer, and his CATWOMAN script actually wasn't that bad. What was awful...was what happened when everyone ELSE got ahold of the CATWOMAN script (allegedly something like 8 or 9 ghostwriters). Trust me. I read about nine drafts of CATWOMAN from 1993 on, and Rogers came the closest, as far as I'm concerned, to anything that might conceiveably work. He's also written AMERICAN OUTLAWS and THE CORE, which weren't brilliant, but weren't terrible, either.
Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci have the following to their credit: MI: 3, THE LEGEND OF ZORRO, THE ISLAND, ALIAS, HERCULES. Hardly a track record to simply dismiss.

Don Murphy is hardly the only producer on this film, and he hasn't only produced LXG, he's also been involved in NATURAL BORN KILLERS, FROM HELL, and APT PUPIL. And he produced the original TRANSFORMERS: THE MOVIE. You're also apparently forgetting about a fellow named Spielberg (we know his track record) and I believe a fellow named DeSanto is involved (we know his track record, too).

Commercial success does not make a movie good. It just proves that the average joe can be fooled into liking something if there are enough explosions and weird camera angles.
Please tell me you can see the huge differences in style and substance between Titanic and Pearl Harbor....
Or Spider-man and Daredevil
Or X-men and Fantastic Four
Or almost any Alien or Predator film and AVP

 

[Hotwire]

Commercial success does not make a movie good. It just proves that the average joe can be fooled into liking something if there are enough explosions and weird camera angles.
Please tell me you can see the huge differences in style and substance between Titanic and Pearl Harbor....
Or Spider-man and Daredevil
Or X-men and Fantastic Four
Or almost any Alien or Predator film and AVP

Not only can I spot the differneces, but I liked all of those movies. Thought I felt the later Alien sequels were a bit forced. That's my only real problem with Hollywood, forcing unnessecary sequels.

 

[CFlash]

Commercial success does not make a movie good. It just proves that the average joe can be fooled into liking something if there are enough explosions and weird camera angles.
Please tell me you can see the huge differences in style and substance between Titanic and Pearl Harbor....
Or Spider-man and Daredevil
Or X-men and Fantastic Four
Or almost any Alien or Predator film and AVP

Not only can I spot the differneces, but I liked all of those movies. Thought I felt the later Alien sequels were a bit forced. That's my only real problem with Hollywood, forcing unnessecary sequels.

Quite right.
And, big D, nowhere are those differences in talent more evident than in Pearl Harbor. While some movies look bad because of budget constraints it takes a certain talent to make a mega blockbuster like Peal Harbor as bad as it is.

 

[thegameq]

I like lots of things. Particularly, good filmmaking as an art. Movies that make me think. There's lots of it out there. Contrary to my posts here I'm not a die-hard about faithfulness when the "adaptations" add to the overriding subtext of the source.

I don't care that Spidey met so-and-so before Mary Jane. I loved Spider-man... and I consider Spider-man 2 one of the best movies of ALL TIME. I even like the silly.... Pirates is pure genius.

What I can't stand is Hollywood Fluff that is devoid of any artistic merit. The Van Helsings, The Independence Days, the Godzilla 98's. The Pearl Harbors. Those I do think are devoid of ANY merit. They are "watchable" (barely) but they're not great by any means.

I wanted Transformers to be great. You seem to be content with it being about as good as League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

Art plain and simple.

 

[big D Evil]

Not only can I spot the differneces, but I liked all of those movies. Thought I felt the later Alien sequels were a bit forced. That's my only real problem with Hollywood, forcing unnessecary sequels.

I definitely agree with you about the later Alien sequels. and for the record I didnt hate daredevil or FF but it was evident that they were not on par with spider-man or X-men.

My problem with Hollywood is them forcing unnecessary changes when they adapt properties for the big screen. t:

 

[roach]

I definitely agree with you about the later Alien sequels.
My problem with Hollywood is them forcing unnecessary changes when they adapt properties for the big screen. t:

what you might think is an unnecessary change may not be unnecessary to the makers of the movie

 

[CFlash]

what you might think is an unnecessary change may not be unnecessary to the makers of the movie

WOW! What a big revelation. You've opened my eyes!!!


- Devlin/Emmerich thought a nuke blasting Godzilla would be unrealistic. Never mind that a 150 foot lizard isn't fantastical to begin with.

- He also felt it necessary that the U.S. military should be able to beat it... quite easily. That wasn't unecessary? Come on!!!

Obviously they felt a lot of things were "necessary." Why? They didn't respect the source AT ALL to begin with.

 

[Hotwire]

I think what Roach was talking about were things like Wolverine not wearing yellow spandex and Spider-Man having organc web shooters. Changes that some may get upset about at first, but once the movie hits, we realize were made for the better.

 

[Boiiinng]

I think what Roach was talking about were things like Wolverine not wearing yellow spandex and Spider-Man having organc web shooters. Changes that some may get upset about at first, but once the movie hits, we realize were made for the better.

Organic webshooters are an improvement over the original, so is not having spandex (i.e. Ultimates series). However, multi-faceted/morph-at-will/creator-searching robots is not an improvement over the original Transformers mythology. It's new fluff that I fear will only create more plot and story holes as the film goes on, and sequels as well. Recreation always breeds new mistakes. Taking an original and fixing the plot and story holes, to improve what's already thought out, not only saves money and time, but it allows for better storymaking and a more well-rounded film.

 

[Hotwire]

However, multi-faceted/morph-at-will/creator-searching robots is not an improvement over the original Transformers mythology. It's new fluff that I fear will only create more plot and story holes as the film goes on, and sequels as well. Recreation always breeds new mistakes.

In your opinion, no, not an improvement. In my opinion, yes, it's an improvement. I got to thinkig the other day about why the G1 designs wouldn't work in this movie. It because the toys were only designed to look like vehicles, not function as vehicles. Almost none had functional interiors, and none could have passed as vehicles if even casually inspected. In the cartoons, they had the interiors, but made them work because they were not bound by the laws of reality. I think this is the best way to approach bringing Transformers to life.

 

[big D Evil]

In your opinion, no, not an improvement. In my opinion, yes, it's an improvement. I got to thinkig the other day about why the G1 designs wouldn't work in this movie. It because the toys were only designed to look like vehicles, not function as vehicles. Almost none had functional interiors, and none could have passed as vehicles if even casually inspected. In the cartoons, they had the interiors, but made them work because they were not bound by the laws of reality. I think this is the best way to approach bringing Transformers to life.

Have you seen the alternators toyline?
It would have been very easy for them to take the basic toy designs and refine and streamline them into something we could all agree on....
At least the prime we got is decent. i wish I could say the same for the decepticons...

 

[Boiiinng]

In your opinion, no, not an improvement. In my opinion, yes, it's an improvement. I got to thinkig the other day about why the G1 designs wouldn't work in this movie. It because the toys were only designed to look like vehicles, not function as vehicles. Almost none had functional interiors, and none could have passed as vehicles if even casually inspected. In the cartoons, they had the interiors, but made them work because they were not bound by the laws of reality. I think this is the best way to approach bringing Transformers to life.

Why would a Transformer allow himself to be inspected? Bumblebee avoided it in the script. The alt modes don't have to function like vehicles! Do you think that when they change their alt forms that they actually create fuel lines and batteries and wires and mufflers, etc. etc.? No, the overall outward appearance looks like a typical car, but instead of a million car parts it's just a few pieces that rotate to become limbs, an abdomen, and a head...that's it!

 

[roach]

Organic webshooters are an improvement over the original, so is not having spandex (i.e. Ultimates series).

yet everyone b!tched about it until they saw the movie

 

[Boiiinng]

yet everyone b!tched about it until they saw the movie

Not everyone. I didn't. I'm a huge fan of X-Men and I applauded them not using colorful outfits. In fact, I didn't think they should have uniforms yet. The whole existing team aspect seemed out of place for a starter film.

 

[big D Evil]

Not everyone. I didn't. I'm a huge fan of X-Men and I applauded them not using colorful outfits. In fact, I didn't think they should have uniforms yet. The whole existing team aspect seemed out of place for a starter film.

Well in the comics wolvie had the yellow suit because he was an agent for canada before he was an x-man but the rest of them were new to the biz.
I definitely won't say that I would have liked them to all wear spandex but they should have came up with something in between. Like maybe take the leather suits and each member could add thier own touch or color or whatever....
Either way the movie captured the essence of the comics so the suits (or lack of) really became a non-issue.

 

[ragdus]

So if there are masses of people who feel this movie captures the essence of what they feel transformers is (and believe it or not that actually is an individual conclusion) then prime's flames and BB's camaro status can be declared non-issues as well.

I'm all for it.

 

[gkokujin]

THEY GAVE SPIDERMAN ORGANIC WEBSHOOTERS?!?!?

WTF?!?!? what is WRONG with HOLLYWOOD?!?!