The Amazing Spider-Man This Is Not Ultimate Spider-Man - This Is Spider-Man 4: 2.0

[The Joker]

Nope. The animated series, and MotP by extension, knew full well what it was, and that's a cartoon (movie) about a guy who dresses as a bat to fight crime, and did not try to pretend that it wasn't. This may not be "cheese", but it's the same type of tongue-in-cheek self-awareness that many people consider "cheesy".

You're right, it's not "cheese". That's why it's so highly praised. Nothing to do with it being an extension of the animated series. You could watch MOTP without ever having to watch BTAS.

And Nolan's movies tried to pretend they were not about a guy who dressed as a bat to fight crime? Were we watching the same movies?

They made such a production about Batman more than any of the other Bat flicks did.

But you just admitted there was no cheese in MOTP. There was nothing tongue in cheek about MOTP either. It was deadly serious. Yet both it and TDK are considered the best Batman flicks ever put on screen.

Why is that?

 

[SuperFerret]

How the hell should I know why that is? I don't consider TDK to be all that good. High quality, maybe, but good? Entertaining? Not after that first viewing. It becomes far more ridiculous with each watching than anything people typically complain about with Spider-Man 2.

And maybe I need to rewatch MotP again, to see how "deadly serious" it is.

 

[The Joker]

How the hell should I know why that is? I don't consider TDK to be all that good. High quality, maybe, but good? Entertaining? Not after that first viewing. It becomes far more ridiculous with each watching than anything people typically complain about with Spider-Man 2.

That's all your opinion, which you're entitled to. It was your declaration that cheese is a necessity to make a comic book movie work that I refute. I think that depends entirely on the hero, too.

Ironically both of Nolan's movies had cheesy moments, and most of them are not liked by the fans. Stuff like the Narrows kid, 'Nice coat', the SWAT guy in the armored truck with Gordon etc.

And maybe I need to rewatch MotP again, to see how "deadly serious" it is.

Yes, you really do. It's a grim tale, where the only chuckles come from Joker's twisted sense of humor.

 

[SuperFerret]

Yes, you really do. It's a grim tale, where the only chuckles come from Joker's twisted sense of humor.

It could be that it's a cartoon that it retains the appropriate feel.

Either way, this point is why I mostly dislike Batman. As for Spider-Man, a corny, quirky sense of humor has been behind the character since his creation and it should remain, and it surprises me that so many don't see it or just don't like it. It makes me wonder what they liked about the character in the first place.

 

[The Joker]

As for Spider-Man, a corny, quirky sense of humor has been behind the character since his creation and it should remain, and it surprises me that so many don't see it or just don't like it. It makes me wonder what they liked about the character in the first place.

This I agree with. I had no real problem with most of the cheesy moments done in Spider-Man 1 and 2. I think they went too far with it in Spider-Man 3, which was supposed to be the darkest movie, and ironically had the most humor of the three movies. One of many reasons why a lot of people dislike it.

Personally, I think Spider-Man 2 struck the right balance. Spidey could have quipped a bit more, but other than that I think Raimi got the tone of Spidey and his world just right. Probably one of the reasons why it's the fan favorite of the three movies.

 

[SuperFerret]

I still like SM3, and think it's just as good as the first (though the second is far superior). Most of the complaining about it come from either people upset with how Venom was handled, or small bits here and there that are blown out of proportion.

 

[DACMAN]

I'm also surprised at the number of people who nitpick over details when the whole picture is still pretty damn good.

And cheese is good, people. If you don't have any cheese in a comic book superhero, you get something that's entirely ridiculous in it's seriousness. (Ala The Dark Knight.)

Right. Because almost everyone agrees The Dark Knight sucked.


I will give you some of the things he was talking about was nitpicking. But the movies did have too much cheese. And the action scenes in all three were amazing so I don't know what he's talking about there. If there is one thing I want Webb to take note of it's Raimi's action scenes.

 

[SuperFerret]

Never said that the Dark Knight sucked. I said it's ridiculous in its seriousness. It's far too serious for its own good, especially for a movie featuring the Joker.

 

[chaseter]

Yeah it is. Not to mention pretentious and obnoxious.

If you are such a huge fan of a character and you are demanding things in the movies need to be like certain things in the comics then yes...at least be able to spell his name

Nolan better put Baine in the next Batman movie because he is my favorite villain

It is pretentious and obnoxious to demand that the movies to be more like the comics in only the aspects that you desire.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Cheese is fine in CBMs.

But Sam's was the equivalent of a 70's porno.

 

[chaseter]

Cheese is fine in CBMs.

But Sam's was the equivalent of a 70's porno.

You highly familiar with 70's era pornography?

 

[Rodrigo90]

I find Linda Lovelace quite irresistible,lol.

 

[Jaxxon]

I can't stand lazy people. Google is huge for a reason.


http://www.beyondhollywood.com/spidey-to-battle-the-vulture-and-the-vulturess-in-spider-man-4/

http://screenrant.com/spider-man-4-...h-vulture-anne-hathaway-vulturess-kofi-36929/

http://screenrant.com/spider-man-4-villains-vulture-vulturess-tobey-maguire-robf-38350/

http://www.obsessedwithfilm.com/mov...hathaway-as-the-vulturess-in-spider-man-4.php

http://polivision.blogspot.com/2009/12/vulturess.html

http://www.thinkhero.com/2009/12/08/the-lizard-out-vulture-and-vulturess-in-for-spider-man-4/

http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/12/08...haway-as-spider-man-4s-vulture-and-vulturess/

http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/12/08...haway-as-spider-man-4s-vulture-and-vulturess/

It was confirmed multiple times that we were getting "Vulturess." Raimi getting the boot was the best thing for this franchise.

There's no need for *****ebaggery, friend. I was merely trying to be enlightened.

Moreover, those articles didn't confirm anything. In fact, most of the headlines ended with question marks...as if to say "We don't know if this crap is actually true, stay tuned for more updates". So yeah...thanks for nothing.

 

[chaseter]

I find Linda Lovelace quite irresistible,lol.

How bout we just skip SM4.1 and just go check out the back room of the dvd store

 

[chaseter]

There's no need for *****ebaggery, friend. I was merely trying to be enlightened.

Moreover, those articles didn't confirm anything. In fact, most of the headlines ended with question marks...as if to say "We don't know if this crap is actually true, stay tuned for more updates". So yeah...thanks for nothing.

He calls me pretentious and obnoxious for demanding that fans be able to spell the characters names correct that google would also easily solve

Google is huge for a reason!

 

[Rodrigo90]

How bout we just skip SM4.1 and just go check out the back room of the dvd store

hahaha!!!

All Spider-Man 3 was missing for me was that sound from a 70's porno.

"BAM CHIKA WOW WOW..."

 

[Doc Ock]

Nonsense. There's no cheese in Mask of the Phantasm, for example, and it's considered the cream of the Batman flicks (after TDK).

Agreed! Mask of the Phantasm is also my favorite Batman film, followed by Batman '89. But the very idea that every comic book superhero needs cheese is well....kinda hurtful to fans of comic books.

 

[TheSlag]

Cheese is fine in CBMs.

But Sam's was the equivalent of a 70's porno.

LOL ... ExSMACKly... especially that damn dance scene by Emo Peter outside the shop after he "dolls up" *Sheeesh* just thinking about it STILL makes me Cringe.

Yeahhh.. Raimi Understood the effects of the symbiote on Peter. NOT!!!

 

[david icke]

LOL ... ExSMACKly... especially that damn dance scene by Emo Peter outside the shop after he "dolls up" *Sheeesh* just thinking about it STILL makes me Cringe.

Yeahhh.. Raimi Understood the effects of the symbiote on Peter. NOT!!!

I love that bit, hilarious.

but, what he was trying to do was show the symbiote to be like booze/drug abuse, boosting the person's ego and confidence, and showing them turn into a disturbed megalomaniac. Which can be funny to watch, embaressing, but funny.

In the books the symbiote had no such effect on spiderman emotionally. In the 90s animated series we got Spider-man getting more aggressive, almost killing the Rhino, but we did get those scenes in SM3 as well, when he tried to kill Sandman, was very casual about putting Harry's life in danger, and when he struck out at the bouncers and Mj in the club.

Anyway, I think I have had this convo several times on here...onto the future, the new Garfield Spider-man(with sarcastic quips worthy of a bug-eyed cat) onto the wonderful world of the reboot! lol

 

[TheSlag]

I hated it. And thanks for explaining something that had the subtlety of a Sledge Hammer to me.

Obviously, I think/thought there were better ways to show the effects of the symbiote on Peter than the "disturbed megalomaniac" Saturday Night Fever reject.

As I have said before, I loved the Peter (symbiote indiced) and Harry exchanges in SM3. I think it was the best parts of SM3. I just wish we had got more, and we had got even darker with the effects of the symbiote on Peter and his relationships.

Say, seeing him snapping at MJ because she is a "whiney biatch"... kinda kidding.. kinda not. Or turning on his beloved Aunt May in a moment of rage or frustraton. Or Striking MJ (and not because she came up behind him unexpectedly... and using a girl do make her jealous... he (Peter) kinda sunk to the level of her character there). And it smacks of High School Twilight Crap. :

It was just lazy film making to me, and had all the subtlenss of a Bull in a China shop.

 

[Rodrigo90]

The one thing I will NEVER forget is the Alfred rip-off...Bernard.

He knew what was going on and never told Harry?

I loved 1 and 2,but 3 was just horrendous!!! The only thing that was camp in 2 was the Raindrops Keep Falling scene. But that was forgivable. 2 took itself seriously.

3 was a joke...a complete and utter joke. It made a mockery of everything that is Spider-Man.

It felt too me as though it was a rushed story,you couldn't get to grips with it cause it was leaping there and everywhere. It was poorly written IMO.

I have absolutely NOTHING against Sam,Tobey or Kirsten,cause they all did a smashing job with 1 and 2. But they didn't give a **** about 3.

 

[TheSlag]

Sm3 had some great moments for me. Hints of what could of/should of been.

Like the scenes with Peter/Harry... Brother vs. Brother.

But there was a LOT wrong with SM3 too.

And I do have something against Raimi (for his childish approach to Venom.. "They want/force Venom on me... I'll show them" )

and Kirsten.. for her total lack of respect for the character (MJ) and the franchise (Spider-Man) in general.. thinking it was "beneath her".

 

[SuperFerret]

But the very idea that every comic book superhero needs cheese is well....kinda hurtful to fans of comic books.

Only to those who are in denial about the roots of what they are fans of. Comic books and superheroes have long been "kid's stuff" (even though they, like Bugs Bunny, began as adult friendly material), and no amount of Killing Jokes or Kraven's Last Hunts or Watchmen is going to change that, but it seems to me that many comic book fans get overly offended by cheesy stuff because of a kind of insecurity about liking "kid's stuff".

While comics and superheroes aren't strictly "kid's stuff", a degree of stupid, kid-friendly fun is inherent in nearly every superhero created (the exceptions being those created as commentaries on existing characters, such as Rorschach), and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[SuperFerret]

And I do have something against Raimi (for his childish approach to Venom.. "They want/force Venom on me... I'll show them" )

The movie's depiction of Venom is a very boiled down version of Venom's most (and only) important storyline: The Symbiote story and his origin. Aside from that, Venom is a fairly thin character as a Spider-Man villain (which is the only reason for him to be in a movie in the first place).

 

[Frodo]

Well As far as the cheese versus serious arguement , for me it depends on the context of the story. TDK was an imo allegory for The War on Terror. It dealt with pretty heavy and serious subjects so it's no suprise it didn't wink at the audience and took itself seriously. It had to in order for the audience to be pulled into the story without being pulled out . Aside from that, Nolan's films are pretty serious to begin with Comic book or not. His films will have humor in them but Insomnia, The Prestige, etc or pretty grounded.

Raimi on the other hand is use to blending humor with action such as Hercules , Xena, The Evil Dead Films and the Spiderman films so the campy and funny moments for me were par for the course. If anything I think the cheese in Spiderman 3 was placed in there because they may have felt the story was gettting too dark.

Overall both approaches are fine depending on the context of each story or character. TDK was amazing at what it did and Spiderman 1 and 2 were amazing at what they did and ultimately they're really different animals imo.