Tilda Swinton Cast as The Ancient One

[RockSP]

Almost every black character from Marvel (think Falcon, Luke Cage, etc.) came on to the scene as some kind of racial stereotype or the other. Was the response just not to adapt those characters? Or have them played by white women? Of course not! That would be silly, right? Then, why not just fix the character when it comes to offensively portrayed Asian characters from the comics instead of completely exorcising them from the medium itself? Is an elderly Asian man inherently stereotypical? Of course not. Is an elderly Asian man who dabbles in mysticism inherently stereotypical? Again, absolutely not.

Agreed.

 

[Logan0327]

they updated a stereotypical character in luke cage just fine

 

[MichaelChen]

I think it's a combination of factors.
(1)They do have some fear of being called racist if they used an Asian in any role that remotely could be called stereotypical. It's not the only or even primary motivation, as there are several excellent ways of getting around this that do not requite Asian-Erasure, but it is part of it.
(2)They just don't like casting Asians for anything. Asians are incredibly rare in Hollywood films. There seems to be some real racism there among Hollywood executives.
(3)They believe bankable stars with some name recognition helps sell movies. This by itself wouldn't prevent Asians from slowly climbing the ladder, but it is probably a serious factor in individuals films.

Those three factors form a toxic stew of motives, and cause people who probably don't even like each other to become allies in blocking Asians from getting roles in Hollywood films. It's one of the few situations where a liberal executive who wants social justice ends up almost accidentally conspiring with an old racist executive who just wants all white stars on his movie screens.

 

[SuperT]

While Marvel could change the race of any character, there is absolutely no reason why they MUST do so.

Who cares about Miles Morales when you could have Peter Parker?

Kamala Kahn? I don't even think she was even a thing back when Marvel decided to make a Captain Marvel movie. She just hasn't been around that long. Some folks need to calm down about Kamala. Give it another 5-10 years and she'll get her movie. The Inhumans need to come first.

Speak for yourself! I have no doubht that a Miles Morales Spider-Man movie would have been huge. Kamala's also going to be huge if they ever get around to her, but yes please continue to underestimate the desire/thirst for these minority characters.

It's there in droves, especially for minority female characters which after 13 movies, still don't even exist in any sort of meaningful role in these movies. For all the praise they get, Marvel's terrible at diversity in their movies. Their Netflix shows are pretty decent but not by much.

So yea, I totally understand people being annoyed about this Ancient One casting.

 

[Web-Head]

I still dislike this casting. She's a good actress, but I'm just not a fan of hers.

 

[Mike5575]

Speak for yourself! I have no doubht that a Miles Morales Spider-Man movie would have been huge. Kamala's also going to be huge if they ever get around to her, but yes please continue to underestimate the desire/thirst for these minority characters.

It's there in droves, especially for minority female characters which after 13 movies, still don't even exist in any sort of meaningful role in these movies. For all the praise they get, Marvel's terrible at diversity in their movies. Their Netflix shows are pretty decent but not by much.

So yea, I totally understand people being annoyed about this Ancient One casting.

Why do you assume that I have a problem with minority characters? Peter Parker is just a better option. He's more popular, has a greater history, and is Marvel Studios chance to get Spider-Man right. I'm sure Miles will come, but Peter Parker is the priority.

As far as Captain Marvel, Marvel had been working for years on getting Carol Danvers in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Marvel had plans for the character long before Kamala Kahn came around. Marvel isn't going to dump Carol for Kamala now just because she's popular right now. The newb can just wait her turn.

If you ask me, the fact that there isn't a female character leading her own film at this point is a bigger travesty than the lack of other-than white lead roles. Women aren't minorities. They're 50% of the population.

 

[Mike5575]

I don't see the problem with the Tilda Swinton casting. She encapsulates the character of someone called the Ancient One real well.

 

[Blade X]

George Takei calls Marvel out on their BS and explains why their excuse for this casting is BS.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/05/george-takei-dr-strange-casting-is-insulting.html

 

[Blade X]

I don't see the problem with the Tilda Swinton casting. She encapsulates the character of someone called the Ancient One real well.

No she doesn't. Hell, she doesn't even look "ancient"/old, much less look like a person of Asian descent.

 

[Typhoon22]

George Takei calls Marvel out on their BS and explains why their excuse for this casting is BS.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/05/george-takei-dr-strange-casting-is-insulting.html

I bet this guy, along with many many other SJWs out there, have never read a Dr. Strange comic in their entire life. I bet this guy doesn't even know a more important role is being played by an Asian actor. There are a lot of these people who jump on specific news like most SJWs to morally stroke themselves on a job well done and completely disregard this issue on most other outlets.

Let's be honest here. Most of you are SJWs. There are so few people who know and love Dr.Strange and read all of their comics who would've preferred a more stereotypical approach and I respect that. They state their opinion very respectfully and move on.
Then there are people who would've preferred an inferior Asian actor/actress for the role instead of Tilda as long its exactly like the comics which they probably never read lol (but they are ok if it's not exactly like the comics on other castings as even evident with even in this film lol hypocrisy much ?).

This is the guy who out of anger used the word blackface to describe a black man (slightly racist and very stereotypicalto assume all black people have to think and act alike). Theatre lingo yeah.

Takei loves to call people out on their stereotypes but in a very hypocritical and hilarious way complains about diversity on Dr.Strange which has a black man, a woman, a white man and an asian man in its cast which for the main characters is fairly diverse more diverse than most movies nowadays certainly yet is totally ok with promoting Ghostbusters which changed the genders and made the 3 female leads all white and the only token black girl is a huge offensive stereotype. Why isn't Takei complaining about this at all (Why aren't you ?). It's infinitely more offensive. Yet he promotes it. This is my issue with SJWs. They have a moral compass they love to stroke and butt in stuff they know little about and totally disregard it on other more important subjects because for whatever reason (call it personal satisfaction or hypocrisy) they look the other way. Let's not pretend most people upset with TAO really care about being comicbook accurate as they've never read a single edition of the comics but they'll act like they did. As for TAO it's not a role you can change like Wong. Wong is a person TAO is a supernatural entity whose traits are defined by stereotypes. You can't make him less stereotypical by casting any Asian actor/actress because of that. You can with Wong because he is not defined by those traits.

I bet if Marvel had cast an Asian actor for TAO there'd be a lot of backlash too. Certainly from Takei who was furious with the oscars for portraying Asians as stereotypical and TAO is much worse in that regard. Hypocritical is what they are. Even your last post is a stereotype in itself claiming that TAO can only be associated with old people or people of Asian descent despite TAO being a title passed on not a literal translation of its name...ancient or wise does not equal looking old just because it was portrayed like that in the comics (hey i'm very progressive but I'd love to associate certain people to certain roles in a stereotypical comic portayal 50 years ago). Can't you see your own hypocritical viewpoints here ?

Let me rephrase it again because people love to ignore it because it doesn't suit them and it's being overlooked too much unfairly so.

THIS CAST HAS A WHITE MAN, A BLACK MAN, A WOMAN AND AN ASIAN MAN.

 

[Endeavor]

What are SJWs?

 

[Typhoon22]

What are SJWs?

Here you go sir.

http://urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=SJW

 

[Mike5575]

No she doesn't. Hell, she doesn't even look "ancient"/old, much less look like a person of Asian descent.

I'm not referring to her age or her gender, but how she carries herself as some zen master or something. Interesting. I didn't know that only Asians could get old. She could still be ancient, but if she's anything like Strange is in the comics, then she has defeated death, and as such doesn't age or ages very slowly.

 

[marieylee]

I bet if Marvel had cast an Asian actor for TAO there'd be a lot of backlash too. Certainly from Takei who was furious with the oscars for portraying Asians as stereotypical and TAO is much worse in that regard.

When has this actually happened? Not just Marvel, but in general. I don't remember people being outraged that an Asian person (or Black person) is casted for a role originally meant to be Asian/Black. And if the role was originally stereotypical (Luke Cage...), just update it. You can absolutely have an Asian man or female play the TAO.

 

[SuperT]

Thank you.

The comment that they didn't want to cast an Asian actor or actress because of stereotypes is bullcrap. Clearly, they weren't going for a traditional interpretation of the character to begin with so they certainly could have written it so the character wasn't a stereotype in order for them to cast an Asian actor/actress. Just call a spade a spade and say they didn't want to cast a minority character in the role to begin with.

 

[Mike5575]

I mean, who gives a ****, really? If Marvel is serious about an Asisn superhero on the MCU, then they'll go with The Totally Awesome Hulk or something. You guys realize that The Ancient One is probably getting killed off in this movie, right?

 

[Typhoon22]

When has this actually happened? Not just Marvel, but in general. I don't remember people being outraged that an Asian person (or Black person) is casted for a role originally meant to be Asian/Black. And if the role was originally stereotypical (Luke Cage...), just update it. You can absolutely have an Asian man or female play the TAO.

It happens (given how few roles are awarded to minorities in general). I don't go around looking for them specifically but if you want a recent example of people getting upset about stereotyping I can give you Leslie Nelsons portrayal in Ghostbusters. Unlike TAO they could've changed it like in the original where Hudson played a smart, very capable man who was often the voice of reason and this was 33 years ago.

You can't change TAOs characteristics because then it wouldn't be TAO.
He/she is a supernatural entity who teaches Stephen the ways of mysticism and martial arts. At its core mysticism and martial arts is his/her main key in this story. You have to strip away his/her abilities to change things up and make it not stereotypical for an Asian actor and if you do that then its no longer TAO and this story falls apart.

Ra's al Ghuls casting in BB was even worse because they replaced an Arabic origin character with a white man not even a woman. And I don't remember it getting much criticism when it should and certainly not as much as here.

 

[Mike Murdock]

In fairness, Ra's was theoretically a secret. Plus, it's Liam Neeson.

 

[Typhoon22]

I have no issues with Liam either. Thought he was fantastic.
Just pointing that out as an example for the hypocrisy in our selective criticism which to me comes off as very insincere.

 

[Dasher10]

I usually have a knee jerk reaction to changing a character's race although with Mordo, it was to make him less stereotypical since he's from Transylvania in the comics. I'm onboard with that one.

But not making The Ancient One Tibetan for political reasons? That's insane and it reeks of censorship.

I'm also not a fan of making Valkyrie black in Thor: Ragnarok since she's not Asgardian, she's an ancient Norse viking. And there are no other Swedish characters in the Marvel U.

 

[Blade X]

I bet this guy, along with many many other SJWs out there, have never read a Dr. Strange comic in their entire life. I bet this guy doesn't even know a more important role is being played by an Asian actor. There are a lot of these people who jump on specific news like most SJWs to morally stroke themselves on a job well done and completely disregard this issue on most other outlets.

Let's be honest here. Most of you are SJWs. There are so few people who know and love Dr.Strange and read all of their comics who would've preferred a more stereotypical approach and I respect that. They state their opinion very respectfully and move on.
Then there are people who would've preferred an inferior Asian actor/actress for the role instead of Tilda as long its exactly like the comics which they probably never read lol (but they are ok if it's not exactly like the comics on other castings as even evident with even in this film lol hypocrisy much ?).

This is the guy who out of anger used the word blackface to describe a black man (slightly racist and very stereotypicalto assume all black people have to think and act alike). Theatre lingo yeah.

Takei loves to call people out on their stereotypes but in a very hypocritical and hilarious way complains about diversity on Dr.Strange which has a black man, a woman, a white man and an asian man in its cast which for the main characters is fairly diverse more diverse than most movies nowadays certainly yet is totally ok with promoting Ghostbusters which changed the genders and made the 3 female leads all white and the only token black girl is a huge offensive stereotype. Why isn't Takei complaining about this at all (Why aren't you ?). It's infinitely more offensive. Yet he promotes it. This is my issue with SJWs. They have a moral compass they love to stroke and butt in stuff they know little about and totally disregard it on other more important subjects because for whatever reason (call it personal satisfaction or hypocrisy) they look the other way. Let's not pretend most people upset with TAO really care about being comicbook accurate as they've never read a single edition of the comics but they'll act like they did. As for TAO it's not a role you can change like Wong. Wong is a person TAO is a supernatural entity whose traits are defined by stereotypes. You can't make him less stereotypical by casting any Asian actor/actress because of that. You can with Wong because he is not defined by those traits.

I bet if Marvel had cast an Asian actor for TAO there'd be a lot of backlash too. Certainly from Takei who was furious with the oscars for portraying Asians as stereotypical and TAO is much worse in that regard. Hypocritical is what they are. Even your last post is a stereotype in itself claiming that TAO can only be associated with old people or people of Asian descent despite TAO being a title passed on not a literal translation of its name...ancient or wise does not equal looking old just because it was portrayed like that in the comics (hey i'm very progressive but I'd love to associate certain people to certain roles in a stereotypical comic portayal 50 years ago). Can't you see your own hypocritical viewpoints here ?

Let me rephrase it again because people love to ignore it because it doesn't suit them and it's being overlooked too much unfairly so.

THIS CAST HAS A WHITE MAN, A BLACK MAN, A WOMAN AND AN ASIAN MAN.

A few quick points.

1. I am no left leaning SJW. I am middle ground thinker with both flexible conservative a liberal views.

2. I am against race and gender bending of any kind.

3. I'm Black and I HATE IT when hypocritical liberals think or insist that we should all share their same liberal views because we are Black and that if we don't agree with them that it gives them a pass to call us an "Uncle Tom" or "idiots".

4. I think that far left liberals are just as hypocritical,full of crap,and as bad as far right conservatives. They are both opposite sides of the same coin.

5. I am not overly/unreasonably PC. However, I am reasonably and moderately PC. And yes, I think that society has become too PC.

6. When you say that this cast has "a white woman,a Black man,a woman, and an Asian man", I notice that you didn't mention the woman's race, and that is the crux of the problem. You make it seem like that casting a white woman in the role is some how proof that this movie is diverse. Here's the thing that you don't seem to understand, it is easier for a white woman to get a role in a Hollywood movie then it is for an Asian man or an Asian woman. So giving the role of the Ancient One to a white woman doesn't say "diversity" to me.

 

[Blade X]

When has this actually happened? Not just Marvel, but in general. I don't remember people being outraged that an Asian person (or Black person) is casted for a role originally meant to be Asian/Black. And if the role was originally stereotypical (Luke Cage...), just update it. You can absolutely have an Asian man or female play the TAO.

Thank you.

The comment that they didn't want to cast an Asian actor or actress because of stereotypes is bullcrap. Clearly, they weren't going for a traditional interpretation of the character to begin with so they certainly could have written it so the character wasn't a stereotype in order for them to cast an Asian actor/actress. Just call a spade a spade and say they didn't want to cast a minority character in the role to begin with.

Both of these posts are quoted for the truth.

 

[Blade X]

I'm not referring to her age or her gender, but how she carries herself as some zen master or something.

But according to Marvel/Disney, she's not supposed to be using mystical Zen (read "Asian") magic, but is supposed to be a master of Celtic magic. Which is why this is a text book case of white washing an Asian character.

Interesting. I didn't know that only Asians could get old.

Spare me your condescending sarcasm.

She could still be ancient, but if she's anything like Strange is in the comics, then she has defeated death, and as such doesn't age or ages very slowly.

The Ancient One is supposed to look very old and who was alive for many centuries. According to Marvel, this Ancient One has been alive for about 100 years. That's old, but not ancient and she doesn't look that old.

 

[Silvermoth]

I wonder if it's too late to change the look of the ancient one? I mean, they always do reshooting anyway. I wonder how many scenes she has? I don't know how to make someone look more Celtic tbh but they should probably seriously consider that

 

[Pokkle]

They shouldn't, people will complain anyways.