Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

[Crook]

Why exactly are ya'll ragging on Burton for utilizing a style that he's stuck with since the beginning of his career?

The dark, surreal, gothic visuals are a staple of his directorial works. It's not marketing towards Hot Topic teens, that's stupid. Burton's been like that for years.

 

[ComixGirl]

Why exactly are ya'll ragging on Burton for utilizing a style that he's stuck with since the beginning of his career?

The dark, surreal, gothic visuals are a staple of his directorial works. It's not marketing towards Hot Topic teens, that's stupid. Burton's been like that for years.

They're his main audience. Burton has shown he can do interesting films outside the norm that don't have to fit into his hackneyed and tired style. It may work for him, but that doesn't mean he has to constantly regurgitate it with the same cast.
Ed Wood, Big Fish, Mars Attacks!, all amusing and awesome movies. Ed Wood is possibly his best and it didn't fit into that tired motif.
Being dark and gothic is fine and all and it worked with Edward Scissorhands, Beetlejuice, and The Nightmare Before Christmas...but the rest just become increasingly mediocre and repititive.
"OH BOY, ANOTHER 'dark and gothic' FILM FOR HOT TOPIC KIDS FEATURING HELENA AND JOHNNY YAY" You can say it's not intentionally marketed to them, but they're the market and buyers. I can't wait to see some awesomely ironic Gothic Alice in Wonderland shirts.

Just because it's what he's "known for" doesn't mean he can't actually try to get out there and do something outside of his comfort zone. Sweeney Todd made me gag.
And while I like Frankenweenie, the remake of that, Dark Shadows, and Alice, all make me feel uneasy. What happened to Ed Wood Burton?

 

[Agentsands77]

The last few films marketed towards Hot Topic tweens kind of make me gag, and you're overusing directing cliches and actors and actresses.

SWEENEY TODD, one of the great stage musicals of the 20th century, was hardly a work "marketed towards Hot Topic tweens."

 

[ComixGirl]

SWEENEY TODD, one of the great stage musicals of the 20th century, was hardly a work "marketed towards Hot Topic tweens."

Sweeney Todd being "one of the great stage musicals of the 20th century" (and there are far better stage musicals), is irrelevent in terms of the mediocre and overhyped film adaptation. And once again, just because you say it's not "marketed towards Hot Topic tweens." doesn't change the fact that they are the main audience for such repetitive "dark and gothic" faire.

What can I say, I'm an Ed Wood/Big Fish/Mars Attacks Burton fan. He doesn't need to reuse the same formulas over and over.

 

[Crook]

They're his main audience. Burton has shown he can do interesting films outside the norm that don't have to fit into his hackneyed and tired style. It may work for him, but that doesn't mean he has to constantly regurgitate it with the same cast.
Ed Wood, Big Fish, Mars Attacks!, all amusing and awesome movies. Ed Wood is possibly his best and it didn't fit into that tired motif.
Being dark and gothic is fine and all and it worked with Edward Scissorhands, Beetlejuice, and The Nightmare Before Christmas...but the rest just become increasingly mediocre and repititive.

"OH BOY, ANOTHER 'dark and gothic' FILM FOR HOT TOPIC KIDS FEATURING HELENA AND JOHNNY YAY" You can say it's not intentionally marketed to them, but they're the market and buyers. I can't wait to see some awesomely ironic Gothic Alice in Wonderland shirts.

His demographic cannot be helped. Burton's doing his own thing and that's all he has control of. Besides, Alice suits his visual style very well. I'm just itching to see a glimpse of what he has in store for the story.

Just because it's what he's "known for" doesn't mean he can't actually try to get out there and do something outside of his comfort zone.

Well, he has. Multiple times. You can't expect him to do something radical on every film project.

Sweeney Todd made me gag.
And while I like Frankenweenie, the remake of that, Dark Shadows, and Alice, all make me feel uneasy. What happened to Ed Wood Burton?

Ed Wood was basically a biopic. You can't exactly take a creative license to depicting someone else's life. Not if you want to honor them right and accurately, anyway.

 

[ComixGirl]

Oh come now, Ed Wood was more than just a simple biopic, it was epic and hilarious. Burton and Depp made it come alive, far past a simple biopic. It's not about it being based on someone else's life, it might as well have been an original and hilarious tale of madness like Big Fish and Mars Attacks.

I'm just that kind of Burton fan, I guess. The dark and gothic thing gets repetitive after working so well on Scissorhands, Nightmare, and BeetleJuice. Burton has shown he can work outside of the box and bring his talent for crazy visuals and dark humor into any genre or medium. I wish he'd do that more. *shrug*

 

[Agentsands77]

Sweeney Todd made me gag.

Well there's no accounting for taste.

Sweeney Todd being "one of the great stage musicals of the 20th century" (and there are far better stage musicals), is irrelevent in terms of the mediocre and overhyped film adaptation.

I'd argue that there are no better musicals than SWEENEY TODD. There may be musicals that are its equal (and even that's a big maybe), but none surpass it. And the movie version certainly did it justice, being Burton's most focused, coherent, and beautiful film.

And once again, just because you say it's not "marketed towards Hot Topic tweens." doesn't change the fact that they are the main audience for such repetitive "dark and gothic" faire.

I don't give a damn who the audience is. I just give a damn as to how good the film is.

 

[ComixGirl]

Well there's no accounting for taste.


I'd argue that there are no better musicals than SWEENEY TODD. There may be musicals that are its equal (and even that's a big maybe), but none surpass it. And the movie version certainly did it justice.


I don't give a damn who the audience is. I just give a damn as to how good the film is.

Well there's no accounting for taste, indeed, go watch some challenging and original cinema. I could give you a few recommendations! To call it the greatest musical of all time would make most fans of musicals raise an eyebrow.
As for how good the film was, well, I guess it couldn't be worse or more overhyped than Juno.

I miss the quality Burton days.

 

[Crook]

Oh come now, Ed Wood was more than just a simple biopic, it was epic and hilarious. Burton and Depp made it come alive, far past a simple biopic. It's not about it being based on someone else's life, it might as well have been an original and hilarious tale of madness like Big Fish and Mars Attacks.

It wasn't an ordinary biopic, no. But like I said, the story and settings calls for a more realistic approach in filming the narrative. Sure, Burton could have taken artistic liberties and inserting his own quirky visuals, but that would not have been accurate.

I'm just that kind of Burton fan, I guess. The dark and gothic thing gets repetitive after working so well on Scissorhands, Nightmare, and BeetleJuice. Burton has shown he can work outside of the box and bring his talent for crazy visuals and dark humor into any genre or medium. I wish he'd do that more. *shrug*

If it can work so well on those 3 movies, what makes you think it won't work well here? He could go "Charlie" on Alice, but I feel that'd just be a waste of potential. A darker and twisted take on the story has limitless possibilities and could really blow us away. Though to be honest, I wouldn't mind a "Big Fish" approach to this movie either. It strayed from the dark overtones but still kept in line with the surreal imagery and colorful cinematography. That could also work well here.

 

[Agentsands77]

Well there's no accounting for taste, indeed, go watch some challenging and original cinema. I could give you a few recommendations!

Yes, like MARS ATTACKS!

To call it the greatest musical of all time would make most fans of musicals raise an eyebrow.

Spoken someone truly ignorant of theatre/music criticism. Few musicals enjoy the critical popularity of SWEENEY TODD. Some notable critics have even gone as far as to proclaim it "The great American opera."

 

[ComixGirl]

Yes, like MARS ATTACKS!


Spoken someone truly ignorant of theatre/music criticism. Few musicals enjoy the critical popularity of SWEENEY TODD. Some notable critics have even gone as far as to proclaim it "The great American opera."

Mars Attacks! was a hilarious silly film that didn't take itself seriously, you can't bring your pretension into comedy, it's all subjective sense of humor. Nice try though.

There are always "some critics" to prove your point. "Some critics" probably think 300 is the greatest film ever made. I'm sure they're quite notable. I take note of them and make sure I stop reading their critiques.

 

[Mogwai]

can't wait for this film. tim burton creating wonderland sounds like it's going to be amazing.

 

[Agentsands77]

If you want to really talk about challenging cinema, we can move on to talk about the New Wave. I daresay the works of Jean Luc-Godard and Francois Truffaut should provide interesting fodder for discussion.

There are always "some critics" to prove your point. "Some critics" probably think 300 is the greatest film ever made. I'm sure they're quite notable.

Ah, ignorance. It produces the most humorously naive comments.

SWEENEY TODD is not 300. SWEENEY TODD is now almost universally praised as one of the great musical accomplishments of the 20th century, and enjoys a reputation of such popularity and acclaim that it now stands alongside the real title holder, PORGY & BESS. But it also has frequently been compared such great triumphs as THE THREEPENNY OPERA, WOZZECK and PETER GRIMES.

Indeed, debating SWEENEY TODD's position as one of the most acclaimed of the genre borders on absurd.

 

[ComixGirl]

If you want to really talk about challenging cinema, we can move on to talk about the New Wave. I daresay the works of Jean Luc-Godard and Francois Truffaut should provide interesting fodder for discussion.


Ah, ignorance. It produces the most humorously naive comments.

SWEENEY TODD is not 300. SWEENEY TODD is now almost universally praised as one of the great musical accomplishments of the 20th century, and enjoys a reputation of such popularity and acclaim that it now stands alongside the real title holder, PORGY & BESS. That does not mean you have to love it, but that's certainly where it stands in terms of reputation.

They would if they weren't such terribly old news, I've already explored and devoured the French new wave. I'd rather talk Haneke or Noé or Zvyagintsev, something I haven't already seen a million times. It's like going HAY GUYZ LETS TALK HITCHCOCK.

And you imbecile, I was using 300 to point out that "notable critics" can be cited to prove any point. I never at any point said 300=Sweeney Todd. >.> 300 was at least entertaining on a mind-numbingly dumb level.

 

[Agentsands77]

They would if they weren't such terribly old news, I've already explored and devoured the French new wave. I'd rather talk Haneke or Noé or Zvyagintsev, something I haven't already seen a million times.

I have not seen anything from Noe, but Haneke and Zvyagintsev have produced some fine work.

It's like going HAY GUYZ LETS TALK HITCHCOCK.

There's nothing at all wrong with that. The classics are always worth discussing.

And you imbecile, I was using 300 to point out that "notable critics" can be cited to prove any point.

No, but you were disputing SWEENEY TODD's place as one of the greats, oddly suggesting that if someone named it the #1 musical they would be met with a raised eyebrow. It is not so.

 

[ComixGirl]

I have not seen anything from Noe, but Haneke and Zvyagintsev have produced some fine work.


There's nothing at all wrong with that. The classics are always worth discussing.


No, but you were disputing SWEENEY TODD's place as one of the greats, oddly suggesting that if someone named it the #1 musical they would be met with a raised eyebrow. It is not so.

It's a fine musical, but declaring it the absolute greatest of all time seems off, and besides you're consistently using the quality of the musical to justify the film adaptation.

 

[Agentsands77]

It's a fine musical, but declaring it the absolute greatest of all time seems off...

You're free to disagree (what, in your mind would be the greatest musical of all time?), but it's not an uncommon thing.

and besides you're consistently using the quality of the musical to justify the film adaptation.

Only in the sense that the stage musical and film adaptation are cut from the same cloth, so I find that accusation that the film is something crafted for Hot Topic folks rather ludicrous. There's nothing more Hot Topic about Burton's film than there was about the 1979 production.

Now, I've never really elaborated on the merits of the film adaptation, but suffice to say I think everything works. I think it's free of any major flaws (which cannot be said for the rest of Burton's work), and stands out as Burton's most poetic work on film. For once, his expressionistic style doesn't feel like some weird add-on with little purpose than to be quirky. It actually contributes something. This is no small part due to the work of Wolksi and Ferreti, giving Burton's style a level of beauty and elegance it never had before.

And unlike ED WOOD, which is definitely Burton's finest venture behind SWEENEY, it doesn't suffer from a being overall disorganized and messy. It's a tight, coherent piece of film. Burton's never one to craft a good story, and SWEENEY TODD thankfully handed him a work where all the pieces were already in order. All Burton had to do was add appropriate visual flair and an excellent cast. And he did. It was a case of material and filmmaker being in the right place at the right time and producing something special.

Now I daresay, I do agree that Burton needs to push on from his usual style. I have no interest in his ALICE IN WONDERLAND, and groaned the minute I heard Depp was cast. It's time for Burton to push into new territory. I can't imagine ALICE IN WONDERLAND being anything more than a dull, uninteresting mess.

 

[Untilteld]

According to a British newspaper, Matt Lucas has been cast as Tweedledee/Tweedledum.

 

[The Amazing Lee]

Interesting...

 

[The Amazing Lee]

 

[Ziggyman]

I've always kinda liked Little Britain...

Depp = Mad Hatter!

 

[Bastila]

According to a British newspaper, Matt Lucas has been cast as Tweedledee/Tweedledum.

I can see that working

 

[Hunter Rider]

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=49121

It's Official: Depp is the Mad Hatter in Burton's Wonderland
Source: ComingSoon.net, Heather Newgen
September 24, 2008


Disney officially announced today that Johnny Depp will star as the Mad Hatter in Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland.

It was also revealed Burton is shooting the film in 3-D.

The film is based, naturally, on the Lewis Carroll classic "Alice in Wonderland," and will combine performance-capture imagery, similar to Robert Zemeckis' Beowulf, with live-action footage.

Depp is joining previously cast actors Mia Wasikowska (as Alice) and Matt Lucas. Disney has set a release date of March 5, 2010.

 

[Untilteld]

Beowulf style Alice in Wonderland, that could be amazing, especially with Burton's twist.

 

[howigotmyscars]

Yea I kind of had a lot of doubts about this but the update got me a little psyched.