Tim Roth says The Incredible Hulk is a kids' movie, :hulk:

[Advanced Dark]

Did you not see all of the Jet pilots dying by Starscream's hand? Or all of the cars that contained humans i them being thrown everywere? Or the Helicopter being blown out of the sky by Starsream?

There was plenty of collateral damage in TF.

Yeah but it was sanitized. Hey I enjoyed it anyways.

 

[Diamondhead]

I agree that all comic book characters are silly. You're taking people in tight ass uniforms with bizzarely muscular figures and **** as big as their skull deadly serious. I'm not ashamed to admit this. The thing is, writers and artists found ways to make them believable.

we're not talking about manga here nitwit !

 

[terry78]

Comic books are just soap operas with more action.

And did you just use the term, "nitwit?" Wow.

 

[L0ngsh0t]

Spiderman movies could mix adult and kids things. The problem is that, as adult thinbgs work, the kids thing ruins the whole experience for me. Raimi simply has the crappiest sense of humor. You really have to be 6 to laugh at 90% of his jokes and one-liners.

I'd die if Norton was "I'll go green... and not with envy" or some kiddy BO-magnet one´-liner like that no matter how many children it would attract.



And because BB is a better movie, it should go its own way.

Neverheless one of the most horrid flaws in BB was the humour, again. Damn this kid stuff. Since when humour in movies must be for six years olders?



I don't know when "fun" and "kids" became synonims. Fun can be perfectly adult. A movie can be quite entertaining without banalizing it to its ruin.

Send kids to see some Disney average flick and let's keep the level of superhero movies high.

That said, I think this kid-humour stuff is merely a Hollywood thing. I don't think real kids in general are so poor about their humour.



For what it is, yes. But every movie is a separate cvase. We don't need Hulk transforming into a trailer because it worked in Transformers. Also, cheesey one-liners could work for Spiderman far more than for Batman or Hulk.



Absolutely. Action has to be great.



Yet I think they should do something kids could like and not some kids thing adults could like.

I set as an example the pilot for the Hulk TV series, just the pilot. I'd say it can be watched by a kid over 8 y.o. but it's always serious and realistic and tragic. Being tragedy and seriousness an inherent part of the Hulk story, you can't destroy that core bit trivializing it with some average Holly-kid stuff IMO.

In a perfect world I don't disagree with anything you have written, however the only way this movie is going to make money is by appealing to kids

it could be in fact the best movie made this year, but if it is not suitable for kids, it won't make the 300 million dollars nessecary to break even at the box office

fun and kids don't have to be synonyms but what I mean by that is you need stuff to keep the movie lively, or else kids will get bored with it like the first Hulk

 

[El Payaso]

In a perfect world I don't disagree with anything you have written, however the only way this movie is going to make money is by appealing to kids

it could be in fact the best movie made this year, but if it is not suitable for kids, it won't make the 300 million dollars nessecary to break even at the box office

fun and kids don't have to be synonyms but what I mean by that is you need stuff to keep the movie lively, or else kids will get bored with it like the first Hulk

Yes. But that's the bad thing about today's movies. They're so hungry of money they don't mind to ruin big part of the films in order to succeed at the BO in an exaggerated way. Sure, it is that way. But Christ, I don't have to accept it.

Yes, it could be in fact the best movie made this year, but if they go too far making it suitable for kids then it won't be the best movie made this year.

Dare to join to El Payaso's searching of a perfect world.

 

[L0ngsh0t]

Yes. But that's the bad thing about today's movies. They're so hungry of money they don't mind to ruin big part of the films in order to succeed at the BO in an exaggerated way. Sure, it is that way. But Christ, I don't have to accept it.

Yes, it could be in fact the best movie made this year, but if they go too far making it suitable for kids then it won't be the best movie made this year.

Dare to join to El Payaso's searching of a perfect world.

Well I don't think it flat out ruins movies today, because the best parts of Spiderman 3 Transformers and Pirates where all because they wanted to please the kids (i.e. the best action sequences to date in film) but also the worst parts of those movies came from overly trying to appeal to kids (simple plots, stupid humor etc) there is a fine line to walk along side and it isn't an easy one but the first two Spidermans walk it really good, the first Pirates movie walks it good, and all star wars movies outside of Phantom Menace are able to balance that silver lining well, and that should be what TIH goes for

you say its a problem that studios are too concerned with making money etc...but the only way to make a capable Hulk movie is to spend a minimum of 100 million dollars, there is no feasable way a good hulk movie could be made on less than that, so you have to be able to make money off of it to recoup the money you have to spend to make the movie

 

[Cracker Jack]

if they go too far making it suitable for kids then it won't be the best movie made this year.

Dare to join to El Payaso's searching of a perfect world.

If what you mean by "kids" you mean 8-10 years and older I'd say yes. they'll like it. Under 7 may not be really happy when the smashing starts. This movie is not for toddlers.

 

[FrostBite]

Anyone saying kids should be sent off to Disney movies, and not superhero movies... are freaking insane. Most of us...would be hypocrites to say these should be made for the adult as we started reading when we were kids. Comic books may have matured, to some extent but lets face it, it's the kids keeping it alive.

Close to nobody comes of age, and goes "Man I should get into superheroes...", if they had interest, chances are it started as a child. Thats why these movies need to be for the WHOLE family. That doesn't mean theres needs to be fart jokes like people are afraid of, and it doesn't need to be dumbed down.

I swear people don't give kids enough credit. X-Men was a series of more serious films, but how much you want to bet most of it's ticket sales and DVD sales were because of the kids?

I'd go to say except those casual fans looking for superhero nastolgia, and us die hards, most of these movies are only successful because of the family aspect.

 

[FrostBite]

If what you mean by "kids" you mean 8-10 years and older I'd say yes. they'll like it. Under 7 may not be really happy when the smashing starts. This movie is not for toddlers.

Dude, I was like 4 when my parents bought me "Mortal Kombat" I was exstatic to rip off a mans head in a video game. Kids love to see things smashed, they love action, and they love violence.

If it were an actual toddler newborn through 3 I might agree, but kids, altogether love to see s*** messed up.

I am really sick of society as of late saying we need to baby kids... it's not going to scare them, or mess them up, chances are they'd have a ton of fun, even if they never got the plot.

 

[Cracker Jack]

Dude, I was like 4 when my parents bought me "Mortal Kombat" I was exstatic to rip off a mans head in a video game.

So that's what happened t:

I am really sick of society as of late saying we need to baby kids... it's not going to scare them, or mess them up, chances are they'd have a ton of fun, even if they never got the plot.

Who said anything about babying them? It may scare them when he transforms. Who knows. I'm just saying that this is not a kids movie like the Transformers. As far as society, I think we should let kids be kids.

 

[FrostBite]

So that's what happened t:



Who said anything about babying them? It may scare them when he transforms. Who knows. I'm just saying that this is not a kids movie like the Transformers. As far as society, I think we should let kids be kids.

Why I outta'....

But no my babying statement wasn't geared towards you specifically, but I've just noticed it more and more lately. It might scare them, but let's face it, something about being scared even for kids... is fun. Just a pure thrill.

I remember when I was 6 I was sitting in the theater watching Independance Day, when one of the aliens was shown, thrusting the professer up against the glass. I almost started crying in fear , yet, when my dad offered to leave I told him I wanted to stay.

To this day, because of scenes that left an impact on me like that, I remember them in detail, despite it being a heck of along time since seeing it.

 

[Cracker Jack]

Well I'm a lot older than you are, not that that makes a difference but, When I was a kid we didn't wear helments when we rode our bikes, drank water from a garden hose and played outside with our friends

 

[Mysterio]

It's actually "Def-Con," unless you're referring to something else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Condition

DeathCon is funnier.

 

[Bannerless Hulk]

Dude, I was like 4 when my parents bought me "Mortal Kombat" I was exstatic to rip off a mans head in a video game. Kids love to see things smashed, they love action, and they love violence.

If it were an actual toddler newborn through 3 I might agree, but kids, altogether love to see s*** messed up.

So, your conclusion being... parents should cater to the interests of kids aged 4 and up?

I am really sick of society as of late saying we need to baby kids... it's not going to scare them, or mess them up, chances are they'd have a ton of fun, even if they never got the plot.

I think you've got this somewhat backwards. It's the parents who believe in babying their kids that allow little Susie and Johnny to go off and see/do whatever they want. And personally, I think society reflects just the opposite of what you're saying. Parents are exercising less and less discipline over their kids' choices, and kids are getting dumber IMO. We've got fewer science & engineering students than ever before, and video games have substituted for playing outside as boys' primary means of fun. Kids are needing constant emotional reinforcement, constant stimuli for having grown up in front of the TV - they're trained better than Marines to expect pampering throughout their lives. Now, having said that all of that, I should say that I'm not even a parent so don't label me as one. This is just what I'm seeing and hearing.

As for this movie, I think it's a judgment call that, like any other, rests squarely in the hands of the parents - I reject this thinking that "kids can handle it," so we should blindly drop them off at theaters. Kids have to reach an age of moral responsibility - typically the teen years - before they should be allowed to decide for themselves. At least with respect to PG-13 and R-rated movies, which TIH likely will be. Otherwise, I have no problem with kids getting a little bit scared. In fact, it's probably good for them.

 

[El Payaso]

Anyone saying kids should be sent off to Disney movies, and not superhero movies... are freaking insane. Most of us...would be hypocrites to say these should be made for the adult as we started reading when we were kids. Comic books may have matured, to some extent but lets face it, it's the kids keeping it alive.

Man, I got into drawing when I was 5. That doesn't mean I should keep drawing as I did when I was 5. It's all I say.

Superheroes are the same thing. They might have been created for kids but hell, they are so much more. And it shows when you see an adult superhero movie. The characters gets a real weight beyond a mere kiddy pastime.

Close to nobody comes of age, and goes "Man I should get into superheroes...", if they had interest, chances are it started as a child.

I've known people that got into X-Men because of the movies and that got him into comics. Me, for example.

Now, if I'd have got a kiddy movie, forget it.

Thats why these movies need to be for the WHOLE family.

Ah, 'nbeed' as in 'we need the money'. Yes, again, that's none of my interest since I'm not getting a penny from that. I only get the quality of the movies and that's my main interest here. The quality goes down as soon as Hollywood decided kids must like a movie.

That doesn't mean theres needs to be fart jokes like people are afraid of, and it doesn't need to be dumbed down.

But it has been dangerously close to that in Spiderman movies and Batman Begins. Begins, a much serious movie, lost all of his dignity for me with those never-ending one-liners. Pure crap for what was trying very well to be a top serious film.

I swear people don't give kids enough credit.

Very well said. And time to make clear that when I say 'kid film' or 'kiddy,' I mean the Hollywood thought of what a kid should like. Which is quite different of what a real kid likes.

Hollywood think the more idiotic one-liners or "funny" gags, the more kids will love it.

X-Men was a series of more serious films, but how much you want to bet most of it's ticket sales and DVD sales were because of the kids?

I agree with you again as I put X-Men films as an example myself. Those movies didn't need to go to dumb levels. Good example.

I'd go to say except those casual fans looking for superhero nastolgia, and us die hards, most of these movies are only successful because of the family aspect.

But that doesn't work with characters as Batman and Hulk. I mean, it could work financially, but if you're going to put some Hollywood kid humor in them, you start ruining them. I gave my example with B. Begins. And the more serious the movie and the character are, the more stupid everything becomes when adding the familiar factor (under Hollywood perspective that is).

 

[FrostBite]

So, your conclusion being... parents should cater to the interests of kids aged 4 and up?



I think you've got this somewhat backwards. It's the parents who believe in babying their kids that allow little Susie and Johnny to go off and see/do whatever they want. And personally, I think society reflects just the opposite of what you're saying. Parents are exercising less and less discipline over their kids' choices, and kids are getting dumber IMO. We've got fewer science & engineering students than ever before, and video games have substituted for playing outside as boys' primary means of fun. Kids are needing constant emotional reinforcement, constant stimuli for having grown up in front of the TV - they're trained better than Marines to expect pampering throughout their lives. Now, having said that all of that, I should say that I'm not even a parent so don't label me as one. This is just what I'm seeing and hearing.

As for this movie, I think it's a judgment call that, like any other, rests squarely in the hands of the parents - I reject this thinking that "kids can handle it," so we should blindly drop them off at theaters. Kids have to reach an age of moral responsibility - typically the teen years - before they should be allowed to decide for themselves. At least with respect to PG-13 and R-rated movies, which TIH likely will be. Otherwise, I have no problem with kids getting a little bit scared. In fact, it's probably good for them.

No, I am simply saying that kids can handle a hard pg-13 movie with their parents. They don't have to make it FOR the children, but that doesn't mean kids won't love it.

As for the babying, I can see what you are saying. But at the same time, parents enforce less and less, teach their kids less and less then when their kids do something stupid, organizations break in and try to say that the kid couldn't handle it... when in fact that could have if their parents gave a d****. I guess it's more because I've been following the controversy of a current videogame... it's prequal I played when I was 14 and was fine, but the violence is spurring so much controversy and organizations keep claiming it will turn children into killers... yet, seriously, if a parent goes "hey this is real life... don't to this... this is just a tv show,game, movie, etc." they'd be fine.

And though I am a gamer, I will say its a shame that it's replacing going outside as you said. When I was a kid, I played outside during the day, and gamed all night. After all kids have boundless energy to spare.

 

[FrostBite]

Man, I got into drawing when I was 5. That doesn't mean I should keep drawing as I did when I was 5. It's all I say.

Superheroes are the same thing. They might have been created for kids but hell, they are so much more. And it shows when you see an adult superhero movie. The characters gets a real weight beyond a mere kiddy pastime.

Well what I am saying is you don't have to dumb it down for kids, but you can still make it appealing to them... as I said, they love big explosions, big action.


I've known people that got into X-Men because of the movies and that got him into comics. Me, for example.

Now, if I'd have got a kiddy movie, forget it.



Ah, 'nbeed' as in 'we need the money'. Yes, again, that's none of my interest since I'm not getting a penny from that. I only get the quality of the movies and that's my main interest here. The quality goes down as soon as Hollywood decided kids must like a movie.


But it has been dangerously close to that in Spiderman movies and Batman Begins. Begins, a much serious movie, lost all of his dignity for me with those never-ending one-liners. Pure crap for what was trying very well to be a top serious film.

Well Spidey has always been a wise cracking little jokester. I wouldn't expect less from him.... thats why I was sickened to see that the humor was found else where and not coming out of his mouth during the heat of battle. Personally I felt Spidey came off more melo-dramatic than it should have, with a dash of comedy where it didn't work. (Save for Jameson... I did enjoy him.)

Yes I wanted it to be serious, but I always wanted the funny superhero I grew up reading.

Very well said. And time to make clear that when I say 'kid film' or 'kiddy,' I mean the Hollywood thought of what a kid should like. Which is quite different of what a real kid likes.

Hollywood think the more idiotic one-liners or "funny" gags, the more kids will love it.

Yeah it's pretty sad. Gosh... back when I was a kid the old Disney films used to be funny, the things Hollywood throws out to appeal to kids ruins good films for adults, and ruins what could be good films for kids too. (Which is sad because... I may be 18, but as I've gotten older I tend to like the occasional family film.)

I agree with you again as I put X-Men films as an example myself. Those movies didn't need to go to dumb levels. Good example.



But that doesn't work with characters as Batman and Hulk. I mean, it could work financially, but if you're going to put some Hollywood kid humor in them, you start ruining them. I gave my example with B. Begins. And the more serious the movie and the character are, the more stupid everything becomes when adding the familiar factor (under Hollywood perspective that is).

Oh I agree completely. Unlike Spidey, Batman and Hulk are not jokesters and shouldn't be treated as such.

But sometimes I do feel the seriousness can get a bit out of hand... such as the grounding in reality stuff. The upcoming Dark Knight makes me wish for even Cesar Romero, I can't stand the idea of a "serious" Joker.... I like the idea of "darker" but not "serious."

Woo, apparently I have to write outside of the quotes a bit for it to post!

 

[ShadowBoxing]

we're not talking about manga here nitwit !

He isn't. Most comics aren't 'high art', I hate to break it too you. The world's they operate are hyper idealized, and on top of this they have convoluted histories and storylines. Most superheroes are tailored to appeal to kids on some level, whether it's their pretty purple pants or the storylines.

 

[Tempest19]

I should once again clarify this...

The Incredible Hulk is NOT Transformers. There is a huge fight in the end that is on a similar scale, but that's it.

IH is even dark than the Spider-Man movies.

The ONLY comic film that you can say its similar to is Batman Begins. It's a very mature film that is dark and tragic in some cases. Gave me an indie feel even. But, it's not metaphorically driven like 'Hulk' was and it has better action sequences.

Also- WATCH DANNY THE DOG!!!!!! That should give you a really good indication of the tone. Or at least watch some Danny clips on youtube. This isn't Transformers or Spider-Man, it's more along the lines of Batman Begins.

 

[Porygon]

I don't think superhero movies should be suitable for kids along the lines of Dora the Explorer, but more along the lines of Indiana Jones and the Incredibles. They appeal to children because of the pretty colours and cool action scenes. But they also appeal to adults because of the depth of the characters, humour and intensity of the plot.

Basically I think superhero films should be for the whole family.

 

[toneloak]

There are certain beats you want to convey universally for all ages.

1. Bruce - smart, complicated
2. Hulk - Strong, good
3. they are one and the same
5. Military - think they are doing good, they have big guns, hates hulk, trying to get hulk
6. Abomination - Bad, stronger then Hulk, bad, bad
7. Hulk & Abomination fight, hulk wins
8. Show some examples of said power(with SFX) and emotions(Hulk reacting to something bad.
9. Also Hulk is the heart of this movie, he's lonely but loved by animals.

That last point was what was missing from the first movie.

If you can convey those points in a dynamic and expressive way you'll have a kid favorite. And, for us adults we need some depth some grey and mystery to maintain our interest. Those scenes have to be realistic and personable, so those aspects can be relatable.

I figure when you brake things down like that it's easy to see how simple and complicated an Incredible Hulk feature can. Lots of room to play but like the 70s series you need to have an easy guide of actions to keep everyone in the loop.

For me looking back on 70s show I liked all those relationship Banner made because he was such a good person. Heroic even and instantly despite his secrets and deep deep pain. Now that is another aspect I really hope is the backbone of this movie. Someone so torn up with guilt that saving lives is just the tape holding him together long enough to avoid crying himself to sleep every knight or worst. But, Hulk is for the kids the visually inescapable monolith leading the young ones through the story one SFX at a time. Like me with 70s Hulk, as they grow up they'll be more to this story then hand holding. Maybe an idea that there a good stronger then hate and pain out there and it's green.

 

[FrostBite]

9. Also Hulk is the heart of this movie, he's lonely but loved by animals.

That last point was what was missing from the first movie.

Maybe because it didn't need to be there to tell people who the Hulk was? I mean seriously, out of all things in the comics... I never once found myself thinking about Hulk's main characteristics while explaining him to non-fans going "Oh yeah, and animals love the big guy."

 

[toneloak]

Maybe because it didn't need to be there to tell people who the Hulk was? I mean seriously, out of all things in the comics... I never once found myself thinking about Hulk's main characteristics while explaining him to non-fans going "Oh yeah, and animals love the big guy."

Whether you notice it or not it's a constant theme throughout the Hulk Mythos. That was one of the main reasons people considered the Hulk a force of nature. Between, his innocent nature and the connection to animals Hulk really is a force of nature a force more powerful than man but good nor bad bad just is. All of those themes play out in the TV series, animated series, and in the comics. Just a few months ago in WWH: Frontline when the Hulk's ship was landing in NY all of the animals from miles around pulled kicking and scratching away from their masters to Hulk and Co's side.

Despite the simplistic nature of some animal licking him in the woods it carries some powerful messages. Many of which may escape you. If anything that was my only grip with the first Hulk movie.

 

[terry78]

I kind of missed the animal love for Hulk when he was busy ripping the poodle apart.

 

[FrostBite]

Whether you notice it or not it's a constant theme throughout the Hulk Mythos. That was one of the main reasons people considered the Hulk a force of nature. Between, his innocent nature and the connection to animals Hulk really is a force of nature a force more powerful than man but good nor bad bad just is. All of those themes play out in the TV series, animated series, and in the comics. Just a few months ago in WWH: Frontline when the Hulk's ship was landing in NY all of the animals from miles around pulled kicking and scratching away from their masters to Hulk and Co's side.

Despite the simplistic nature of some animal licking him in the woods it carries some powerful messages. Many of which may escape you. If anything that was my only grip with the first Hulk movie.

I love how you think messages escape someone who just doesn't care. They don't escape me. But I'll repeat, I just don't care.

The relationship (or should I say conflict) between Banner and Hulk interests me more for a movie, than animals flocking to him. They botch up the former as I felt they did in the first for me... I'll care. You botch up the second for me, it's a meh situation.

Not saying you arn't entitled to your opinion as well, just spouting my own. We're both fans of the same character, but that doesn't mean everyone has to care about every characteristic that is shown.