Tim Roth talks UP "The Incredible Hulk"!!!

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

As we all know banner is trapped inside the Hulk while he is in that state. Banner and the Hulk are one and the same, just the Hulk takes over when the radiation is released inside of him. Banner is always inside, just supressed. The cure I assume allows a little, just a little of banner to get through enough for him to speak, because he then recognizes Betty and shes in trouble. The personalities are different, but the man and beast, one and the same. As far as the speaking goes, they are tweaking as they go. My thoughts are he yells something at Abomb right before..........

Sorry EB, but to me, Hulk and Bruce Banner have never been one and the same, they share similar traits, but all in all, they couldnt be more different to one another, not to mention Hulk has his own relationship with Betty that doesnt involve Bruce.

This, and what you quote above from the your source are not the Hulk in my eyes.

Re: the part in the bold. I personally don't feel that is true and never really has been even with the 3 distinct Hulk personas we have seen in the books over the years (the 'merged' Professor personality would be the closest to that statement and even that was eventually revealed to be a different mind at work).

In his other 2 incarnations (Grey and savage green), just as Hyde was to Jekyll, the Hulk is Bruce's repressed emotions given form and thought of their own. With the grey it was his nastier selfish side, with the green it was more basic and primal. But in all cases the Hulk personality is not Bruce Banner, but parts of his ID grown into a new personalities altogether. This is a point expressed in the very first issue and emphasised by how much they hated each other in the books - even now, with the personalities far more at ease with each others existence they are still well aware that they are different minds at work.

Another way of viewing this...Someone utterly drunk is one and the same as their rational sober self, it's just that while under the influence the drunk has far less inhibitions (and co-ordination, and manners...bladder control...you get the idea). However different they behave in this state though, the mind is still the same person, no matter how drunk they get.

By making the Hulk a near mindless raging thing that Bruce becomes when the radiation kicks in, or as you described it earlier, like his being on a 'bad acid trip' you won't get the feeling this is a new personality on show. It's just Banner, under the influence of a very different kind of drug, one the 'cure' helps him to focus past a little.
If this is the case then the Hulk personality, in any form that the comic fans have known him, will remain unseen.

Exactly, i have never seen them as the same person, because they arent, they are distinctly different in the majority of their ways.

 

[FrostBite]

Sorry EB, but to me, Hulk and Bruce Banner have never been one and the same, they share similar traits, but all in all, they couldnt be more different to one another, not to mention Hulk has his own relationship with Betty that doesnt involve Bruce

But this was what bugged me in the last one. It seemed like Banner just got big and green.

I didn't see an entirely different personality.

Oh well, guess we'll never really get the split personalities in our Hulk films.

 

[Obi-Ron]

What happened to the whole "Banner hates Hulk/Hulk hates Banner" thing?

 

[Silver Knight]

Went away I guess..

 

[EmeraldBeast]

Sorry EB, but to me, Hulk and Bruce Banner have never been one and the same, they share similar traits, but all in all, they couldnt be more different to one another, not to mention Hulk has his own relationship with Betty that doesnt involve Bruce.

This, and what you quote above from the your source are not the Hulk in my eyes.

Exactly, i have never seen them as the same person, because they arent, they are distinctly different in the majority of their ways.

Don't be sorry. You are free to disagree, but what I refer to is the classic Hulk and not all these incarnations of which you speak of. I'm gonna keep this basic: The Hulk which was born from a freak accident became a Hulk at night. (Yes, I know you know this.) While in that state, his mind is clouded, unstable, just like he is in the movie. He becomes a Hulk obviously changing from Banner to Hulk. He is still Banner, just changed into a Beast he can't control which has its own mind set. Its almost like if you fell and hit your head and became ******ed. Are you not Jamon? You are but have a different mindset because of the accident. If you receive meds to cure your affliction and slowly start to speak again, are you a different person? No you are still Jamon. Same thing with the Hulk. Only difference is he physically changes with his affliction. With the cure his head clears during that state allowing him to recognize who he would normally while he was Banner. I know you understand what I mean. If he changed into the Hulk and stood that way, they would be different because of his altered state being permanent. But he changes back to Banner with the Hulk still inside him until he gets mad again. Its a never ending cycle for Banner. If the Hulk was killed, Banner dies with him. Same goes for the Hulk. If you kill Banner the Hulk dies too. How can they not be one and the same?

 

[Obi-Ron]

Hulk is not just "******ed Banner", but his own separate personality. That's always been a major aspect of the character.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

But this was what bugged me in the last one. It seemed like Banner just got big and green.

I didn't see an entirely different personality.

Oh well, guess we'll never really get the split personalities in our Hulk films.

That was actually one of my problems with the 2003 movie, there was too much Banner in the Hulk.

Don't be sorry. You are free to disagree, but what I refer to is the classic Hulk and not all these incarnations of which you speak of. I'm gonna keep this basic: The Hulk which was born from a freak accident became a Hulk at night. (Yes, I know you know this.) While in that state, his mind is clouded, unstable, just like he is in the movie. He becomes a Hulk obviously changing from Banner to Hulk. He is still Banner, just changed into a Beast he can't control which has its own mind set. Its almost like if you fell and hit your head and became ******ed. Are you not Jamon? You are but have a different mindset because of the accident. If you receive meds to cure your affliction and slowly start to speak again, are you a different person? No you are still Jamon. Same thing with the Hulk. Only difference is he physically changes with his affliction. With the cure his head clears during that state allowing him to recognize who he would normally while he was Banner. I know you understand what I mean. If he changed into the Hulk and stood that way, they would be different because of his altered state being permanent. But he changes back to Banner with the Hulk still inside him until he gets mad again. Its a never ending cycle for Banner. If the Hulk was killed, Banner dies with him. Same goes for the Hulk. If you kill Banner the Hulk dies too. How can they not be one and the same?

But this isnt the Hulk EB, from the first issue, he was regarded as a seperate personality, similar to Ghost Rider in that sense, Ghost Rider acts the complete opposite to what Johnny Blaze does, and same with Hulk and Bruce, they are not one and the same like you say, they are different enitities, otherwise they wouldnt be able to be seperated like the regularly are in the comics/cartoons.

Hulk is not just "******ed Banner", but his own separate personality. That's always been a major aspect of the character.

Exactly, i have never seen it like that, he is a seperate entity, and its been a mainstay of the character since the beginning.

 

[Cracker Jack]

Hulk is not just "******ed Banner", but his own separate personality. That's always been a major aspect of the character.

You got that right. The Hulk is a manifestation of Banners rage. He is not Banner, but part of Banner. To me, this is why it’s so important that his origin come from the Gamma Bomb. Like the Gamma Bomb, the Hulk is natures fury unleashed and uncontrollable. Unpredictable. To me, this is where the Hulk came from. He just manifests himself as Banners rage.

 

[FrostBite]

That was actually one of my problems with the 2003 movie, there was too much Banner in the Hulk.

See this everyone who criticized Jamon? He can dislike things about Ang's Hulk.

Well glad we agree on something from that film. The only time I got a shot of the Hulk I wanted was the dream sequence "Puny Human" made me geek out. Hopefully this "unclouded" Hulk is more of a Hulk that gets a grasp on his OWN personality rather than being mindless or having Banner's input.

 

[ArtTeacher]

Hey EmeraldBeast, it's all good; we know you're right.
Regardless of what the Hulk is to Bill or Jimbob or Sally, the FACT is that Marvel has officially stated that the savage Hulk (the most well known of the orgy of personalities that have popped up over the years) is Bruce's inner child.

Period.

If Dr. Strange entered some dude and possessed him, then Dr. Strange is a separate entity possessing said dude. The Hulk didn't enter into Bruce; the Hulk is a physical manifestation of Bruce's repressed emotions, anger, etc., coming to the surface. The Hulk likes and dislikes the same people Bruce does.
This is why the scene in Ang Lee's Hulk where Bruce, in mid-transformation, strangles Betty is absolutely ridiculous.
Bruce doesn't become the Hulk and start speaking Swahili, punching Betty in the face, shopping at antique stores, and palling around with Annihilus....at least not until Joe Quesada gets wind of this and applies his "If it ain't broke, break it" mentality.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

See this everyone who criticized Jamon? He can dislike things about Ang's Hulk.

Well glad we agree on something from that film. The only time I got a shot of the Hulk I wanted was the dream sequence "Puny Human" made me geek out. Hopefully this "unclouded" Hulk is more of a Hulk that gets a grasp on his OWN personality rather than being mindless or having Banner's input.

Of course i can, no such thing as a perfect movie, and no CB movie yet has satisfied me completely, even BB which i consider no.1 has bits i dont like. I dont expect TIH to completely satisfy me either, but i'm hoping there is more good than bad in there.

As for the dream sequence in the 2003 movie, yeah, it was possibly the only 'Hulk' moment in the movie, i hope this wont be the case with TIH, but with the way EB describes it, it could be.

 

[Bannerless Hulk]

The Hulk didn't enter into Bruce; the Hulk is a physical manifestation of Bruce's repressed emotions, anger, etc., coming to the surface. The Hulk likes and dislikes the same people Bruce does. This is why the scene in Ang Lee's Hulk where Bruce, in mid-transformation, strangles Betty is absolutely ridiculous.

I thought it made sense, but was kind of 'forced' in the way it was shown. In the scene you're talking about, Krenzler walks all the way back to the car - naked and already having de-Hulked - and is carrying a conversation with Betty before having that Hulk-asm in which he starts to strangle her. The problem to me is that scene, like much of the rest of the movie, tries to ground the Hulk too much in reality. They want us to believe that a real, living person would have that Hulk-asm, being somewhat deranged and not entirely in control of himself after having such an extended Hulk-out. But we know from the comics that "Hulk likes and dislikes the same people Bruce does," so it doesn't translate real well with us, the fans who've followed those comics.

But a lot of things about Ang's Hulk seemed 'forced' to me...

 

[ArtTeacher]

I thought it made sense, but was kind of 'forced' in the way it was shown. In the scene you're talking about, Krenzler walks all the way back to the car - naked and already having de-Hulked - and is carrying a conversation with Betty before having that Hulk-asm in which he starts to strangle her. The problem to me is that scene, like much of the rest of the movie, tries to ground the Hulk too much in reality. They want us to believe that a real, living person would have that Hulk-asm, being somewhat deranged and not entirely in control of himself after having such an extended Hulk-out. But we know from the comics that "Hulk likes and dislikes the same people Bruce does," so it doesn't translate real well with us, the fans who've followed those comics.
But a lot of things about Ang's Hulk seemed 'forced' to me...

"Krenzler".
Did anyone just throw up in their mouth a little bit?
*raises hand*
Krenzler. Wooooeeee.
B.H., this is not a criticism of your post, at all. (Disclaimer over)
The Hulk doesn't strangle Betty.
Bruce doesn't strangle Betty.
The Hulk is not a villain.
When Bruce Hulks out, Hulkgasm or not, he doesn't lose control and start attacking Betty, Jim Wilson, etc.

It was the #1 thing I hated about that movie.
Simply put, it wasn't the Hulk.

 

[Bannerless Hulk]

But you see where Ang Lee and/or James Schamus, the writer, was coming from, don't you - their intent on steeping the scene in reality? I'm actually glad you mention this, because it gets to what I think is the impediment of almost every Hulk fan - the inability to separate themselves and/or their view of the Hulk from the comics. It's simply amazing to me how... stacked... our views are when we go into theaters. It's got to be unlike that of any other fan who just shows up at the theater, hoping for a pleasurable movie. Hulk fans walk in with guns blazing and it's really unfair, imo. Meet their expectations or else... as if we have shares invested in the Hulk character.

Again, I think the scene made sense from Lee and Schamus's vantage; it was just done poorly or was forced altogether. Like, maybe a real, living person DOES experience some of that confusion that would cause Krenzler to strangle Betty - I can't claim to fully know the psychological underpinnings of a man in that state of mind, nor can you - but maybe it's shown differently or simply acted out better. Or not shown at all, since we got the point. As I said, it just seemed forced.

 

[Obi-Ron]

"Krenzler".
Did anyone just throw up in their mouth a little bit?
*raises hand*

*also raises hand*

 

[ArtTeacher]

But you see where Ang Lee and/or James Schamus, the writer, was coming from, don't you - their intent on steeping the scene in reality? I'm actually glad you mention this, because it gets to what I think is the impediment of almost every Hulk fan - the inability to separate themselves and/or their view of the Hulk from the comics. It's simply amazing to me how... stacked... our views are when we go into theaters. It's got to be unlike that of any other fan who just shows up at the theater, hoping for a pleasurable movie. Hulk fans walk in with guns blazing and it's really unfair, imo. Meet their expectations or else... as if we have shares invested in the Hulk character.
Again, I think the scene made sense from Lee and Schamus's vantage; it was just done poorly or was forced altogether. Like, maybe a real, living person DOES experience some of that confusion that would cause Krenzler to strangle Betty - I can't claim to fully know the psychological underpinnings of a man in that state of mind, nor can you - but maybe it's shown differently or simply acted out better. Or not shown at all, since we got the point. As I said, it just seemed forced.

Of course I see where Ang & co. are coming from. I just hate it, that's all. This isn't a case of not being able to see past fanboy glasses. This isn't, "Well, they didn't get the rips on the Hulk's pants exactly like they are in the comic, so I hate it".
Bruce strangled Betty.
Bruce BANNER tried to choke Betty because of a half-influenced Hulk swirling around in him...some Hulk-residue, if you will?
Wrong.
Clark didn't kick Lois in the baby maker.
Spider-Man wasn't addicted to crystal meth.
Wolverine didn't wear a tutu.
This isn't "Well, he didn't act exactly like the savage Hulk" or "I wish they would have used the merged Hulk". This is changing the very nature of the character. He's not a villain. He doesn't choke out his loved ones.

It was dumb.
I hated it.
It showed the opposite of what the character is. He attacked the very person he was trying to protect.
The guy sitting in front of me could actually hear my eyes rolling.
Do I see where they were coming from? Sure.
Would I rather cough blood from my eyes than see a scene like that in the new Hulk movie? You bet.

 

[Prefix]

Wait, when did Bruce choke Betty in HULK?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Wait, when did Bruce choke Betty in HULK?

It was just after the Dog fight, Betty screams out, and Bruce then realises what he is doing, and stops.

 

[Bannerless Hulk]

Of course I see where Ang & co. are coming from. I just hate it, that's all. This isn't a case of not being able to see past fanboy glasses. This isn't, "Well, they didn't get the rips on the Hulk's pants exactly like they are in the comic, so I hate it".
Bruce strangled Betty.
Bruce BANNER tried to choke Betty because of a half-influenced Hulk swirling around in him...some Hulk-residue, if you will?
Wrong.
Clark didn't kick Lois in the baby maker.
Spider-Man wasn't addicted to crystal meth.
Wolverine didn't wear a tutu.
This isn't "Well, he didn't act exactly like the savage Hulk" or "I wish they would have used the merged Hulk". This is changing the very nature of the character. He's not a villain. He doesn't choke out his loved ones.

It was dumb.
I hated it.
It showed the opposite of what the character is. He attacked the very person he was trying to protect.
The guy sitting in front of me could actually hear my eyes rolling.
Do I see where they were coming from? Sure.
Would I rather cough blood from my eyes than see a scene like that in the new Hulk movie? You bet.

Ha, ha... okay I get your drift. Re: the bolded part, let us all understand that it was only "changing the very nature of the character" PER THE COMICS. Or your perception of the Hulk, per the comics. And I would probably go on to say that they didn't change his nature at all. Bruce still willingly released his grip from Betty's neck. He was just confused. If you're going to say Ang & Co. changed his nature, then I think you've some obligation to prove that they really changed the Hulk's bent or inclination toward being confused... which is a part of the Hulk, is it not? Otherwise, he's not painted as "a villain" at all, as far as the movie I watched goes. The Hulk goes on being misunderstood - which is probably more the thing that you didn't like - and saves the people on the bridge later on. Honestly, of all the grievances I've ever heard of Ang's Hulk, casting him as a villain was never one of them until you just did.

 

[Prefix]

It was just after the Dog fight, Betty screams out, and Bruce then realises what he is doing, and stops.

Seriously?

That tiny thing is what people are arguing about?

 

[ArtTeacher]

Seriously? That tiny thing is what people are arguing about?

...yeah...you know...that tiny little thing that changes the hero of the movie into...you know...someone that strangles "the only person that can calm the Hulk down".


"Hey, Bill, people are mad after hearing that in the next Superman movie, Superman rapes Lois."
Seriously? That tiny thing is what people are arguing about?

 

[Bannerless Hulk]

Well, to be honest, I'm never arguing here. Just more intense than the average person is, I think. I'm sorry if I ever hurt anyone's feelings when I engage in what I think is going to be an intelligent conversation...

 

[Cracker Jack]

There you go thinking again.

LOL Oh that one was rich. t:

 

[Bannerless Hulk]

"There you go thinking again."

Yeah, sadly, my mind has a way of getting me into trouble. Guess I should just keep all this knowledge to myself...

 

[Cracker Jack]

Guess I should just keep to myself...

Reads better that way t: