Tim Story MySpace Blog updated

[SeverianB]

Highguard, thanks for the great, passionate, ON-TOPIC post.
Let me reply.... don't take any offense.

I mean these guys are better artists than some guys that are revered in paintings like Davinci and stuff.

Let's not go overboard. There are some good comic artists out there, but if they were really that great, they wouldn't be doing comics, would they?

I mean just look at what Jack Kirby created in his 100 issues, the inhumans, SS, Galactus, the Super Skrull, Doctor Doom the template for Darth Vader and all his tech drawings. His templates must have inspired hundreds of Sci Fi concept artists and the lab changes for FF2.

Yeah, Jack Kirby and friends created some cool, out-there characters and ideas. I still don't consider it high art. I consider it pulp fiction.

Who can argue that this is not cultural greatness at the highest level.

Billions of people watch or are familiar with these characters. James Marsden/Cyclops himself said the symbol of Superman is second only to the Cross (as it should be) in the modern day conciousness of humanity.

Now if that is not a staggering reality of the impact of the age of heroes then I do not know what is.

Doesn't stagger me at all. They are cute little stories to me and most other people. There may be a lot of cultural "awareness" of the image of Superman, but I don't see anything great about it. Most adults know Superman is like Santa Claus... an imaginary friend. He's not gonna rise up and save anybody.

In all of us the heroes represent that ultimate hope that somewhere, somehow, good.... the ultimate bation of light exists and that in every war against the depths of evil ultimately it prevails.

The story of Galactus is a great example, in its purist form it is the story of God judging the earth and man's desperate need for a saviour, someone who will stand in the middle and cry out on our behalf.

What higher art could there be.

To me personally, and most other well adjusted adults I know, there are many forms of art that are just as "high". Many movies, paintings, books and real-life stories have moved me more than any comic book I've read. Not to say graphic novels can't have a deeper meaning, for example, Mause. However, most are pulp fiction, made to be read and thrown away, in the trash.

You wrote some great stuff there, but to me, it's over the top. I just don't care. And I think most people in the movie-going public agree with me.

P.S. E-Thuggery and Thread Hijacking is Lame. But immature Moderators who are too quick flex their E-Muscle are lame also... think about it. Carp Man overreacted, but Horatio was being an ass. Simple as that.

 

[thegameq]

I respect that, as long as you accept and respect those of us that ARE NOT hard-core fans.



This is where I disagree. I feel most comics, and especially ones like the Fantastic Four, are PULP FICTION. Stan, Jack and their ilk, made some great stuff, but for the most part, they were just grinding out cheap entertainment as quickly as they could. I consider them a decent blueprint for a movie, but in no way do I take them as gospel. Seriousness doesn't even enter into the equation in my mind. They were never high art, IMHO.



The original comics were made to cash in and get a quick buck. Sin City and 300 follow the Miller comics, which were made *after* comics became more "adult" and "hip". The Spider-Man movies are like no Spider-Man comic I read as a kid. They are more like "Frank Miller does Spider-Man".



I gotta admit, Doom wasn't my favorite thing from the first movie, but I didn't think it was that bad. They had too introduce him somehow.




I found FF to be a nice break from the too-serious comic book stuff. SM3 isn't even on my radar. It looks to me like Rami has gone totally off the deep end. I'll rent it and watch it in my parents basement while listening to emo music and getting my goth makup just right. t:

Different strokes.......

Oh no doubt the idea was to make a buck/living first and tell great stories second. It's probably safe to say the creators themselves didn't start taking the material seriously until they realized the fans were.

Pulp, oh yeah, I can see that. I think that's why the stylized old school scifi, superhero approach used by Bird in the Incredibles worked so well. I could say it didn't take itself to serious, but I feel that's innacurate. I think the execution (technical) was handled extremely well and it was handled seriously (they cared because it's clear the subject matter was something they cherish) by the production team. The look and style wasn't serious (Batman Begins, etc.), but the story didn't talk down to the audience, nor did it need to.

The first FF film is one of those films that got 1/2 to 3/4 right. Unfortunately, the first film had that all to familiar "let me stick my tow in the water first" feel to it that to many comicbook movies have. In other words, the studio is only going to go so far.

Again, most hardcore fans just wan the material to be treated with the same respect, reverence they have for the material. I don't know how familiar you are with comicbooks, but if you are, ask yourself:

If most comicbook movies did their best to follow the material as closely and reasonably as possible, would it really be that bad? Would general audiences really wretch in absolute disgust at the source material or would they find it at least entertaining, if not great and intriguing? Would cats and dogs begin getting along, plagues rain from the sky if more comicbook movies stuck more closely to the source material?

Would a noir-ish, detective Batman movie be so bad?
Would a Thor movie handled similar to LOTR, Excalibur or 300 be terrible?
Would a gritty, violent Punisher mob movie, done similar to The Professional or Heat be so bad?
Would a movie were living sentient robots are the main stars, waging war on earth and the humans get caught in the middle really be so bad? would audiences think, "wow, this is different" or "I can't watch this, were are the humans, I can't take this crap serious"?

Eh, I feel a tangent coming on.......end rant.

 

[Kelly]

Highguard, thanks for the great, passionate, ON-TOPIC post.
Let me reply.... don't take any offense.

You pretty much just called something they've enjoyed passionately for decades, frivilous without of course using that term. Why would they take offense. And actually this isn't on topic either....lmao

Let's not go overboard. There are some good comic artists out there, but if they were really that great, they wouldn't be doing comics, would they?

They are artists of comics because they love that "art form" not because they aren't good enough to do something else.

Yeah, Jack Kirby and friends created some cool, out-there characters and ideas. I still don't consider it high art. I consider it pulp fiction. Doesn't stagger me at all. They are cute little stories to me and most other people. There may be a lot of cultural "awareness" of the image of Superman, but I don't see anything great about it. Most adults know Superman is like Santa Claus... an imaginary friend. He's not gonna rise up and save anybody.

That is your opinion, which is very much disagreed upon by millions....myself as a teacher as well. It IS an art form, high in your opinion or not, that has actually had 100's of art showings in some of the largest art galleries in the US....I believe we talked about one in LA just last year....As literature.....if I can get my kids pumped for something to read, that is the most important step...just last year F4 comics were shipped out to Jr. High and High School Science classes all over the US to be used in their curriculum. The transformation of Sue is probably one of the best examples of the Woman's movement out there.....and could so easily be used in Sociology classes at the high school and college level. My Sociology teacher in my department is looking into that now.

To me personally, and most other well adjusted adults I know, there are many forms of art that are just as "high". Many movies, paintings, books and real-life stories have moved me more than any comic book I've read. Not to say graphic novels can't have a deeper meaning, for example, Mause. However, most are pulp fiction, made to be read and thrown away, in the trash.

That is unbelievably disrespectful to the readers of this literature. I'm not a huge comic fan myself, never have been. But that is rude.

You wrote some great stuff there, but to me, it's over the top. I just don't care. And I think most people in the movie-going public agree with me.

Way to speak AGAIN, for the masses.

P.S. E-Thuggery and Thread Hijacking is Lame. But immature Moderators who are too quick flex their E-Muscle are lame also... think about it. Carp Man overreacted, but Horatio was being an ass. Simple as that.

You are a Jessica fan! And thats fine....I was an Alba/Chickie fan myself when I first came on, I knew very little of the comic at that time....but many well educated, adults that have found these comics enjoyable over the years gave me a respect for this art form that they've loved for decades.........but there is absolutely no reason for your rude comments on a FORUM, BASED ON A COMIC BOOK. Go start threads about Jessica's movies in the movie forum.....thats what it is there for.....

If you don't like comic books and find them so much TRASH, go find a Jessica forum, that just talks about her movies.....you post at IMDB, maybe your time would be better enjoyed and well spent there than degrading people's opinions here......your opinion is fine and dandy, but you degrade others in putting yours up.....THAT is immature and lame, and it is YOU that is acting very much like an ass.

P.S. This is probably the most rude post against the regular posters, and readers of this comic that I have read since coming to the hype in July 2004.

Congratulations!

Oh, wow, I just got an email from the Librarian of our school.........the world history classes are requesting the viewing of "300" as a part of their curriculum this second semester.....IMAGINE THAT.......

 

[Hunter Rider]

Highguard, thanks for the great, passionate, ON-TOPIC post.
Let me reply.... don't take any offense.



Let's not go overboard. There are some good comic artists out there, but if they were really that great, they wouldn't be doing comics, would they?



Yeah, Jack Kirby and friends created some cool, out-there characters and ideas. I still don't consider it high art. I consider it pulp fiction.



Doesn't stagger me at all. They are cute little stories to me and most other people. There may be a lot of cultural "awareness" of the image of Superman, but I don't see anything great about it. Most adults know Superman is like Santa Claus... an imaginary friend. He's not gonna rise up and save anybody.



To me personally, and most other well adjusted adults I know, there are many forms of art that are just as "high". Many movies, paintings, books and real-life stories have moved me more than any comic book I've read. Not to say graphic novels can't have a deeper meaning, for example, Mause. However, most are pulp fiction, made to be read and thrown away, in the trash.

You wrote some great stuff there, but to me, it's over the top. I just don't care. And I think most people in the movie-going public agree with me.

P.S. E-Thuggery and Thread Hijacking is Lame. But immature Moderators who are too quick flex their E-Muscle are lame also... think about it. Carp Man overreacted, but Horatio was being an ass. Simple as that.

Let me make this easy for you in my immature capacity,this post is so full of bias disrespect to a number of ppl i could infract you into 2008 but i am gonna give you a chance to adjust your posting style and start respecting your peers and the material involved.

I'd also advise you not to speak on matters you know nothing of,Carpman has been a constant problem here and has already had one account banned so him inciting Horatio who has never been a problem required dealing with.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Severian...I just read your post...um, what are you doing?

Your comments insult not only your peers here, but also attacks the Hype! staff? Why? I'm assuming you're leaving the Hype! and this post is your parting gift, correct? I ask because surely you realize you will not gain and/or retain friends on a comic book forum by condescendingly bashing the very medium that draws this community here on a daily basis. What is one man's "Trash" is another man's treasure...so why are you in our "dumpster"?

Not sure what you were trying to accomplish with that last post--but it is not casting you in a good light. At all. You might want to consider amending it.

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

Severian...I just read your post...um, what are you doing?

Your comments insult not only your peers here, but also attacks the Hype! staff? Why? I'm assuming you're leaving the Hype! and this post is your parting gift, correct? I ask because surely you realize you will not gain and/or retain friends on a comic book forum by condescendingly bashing the very medium that draws this community here on a daily basis. What is one man's "Trash" is another man's treasure...so why are you in our "dumpster"?

Not sure what you were trying to accomplish with that last post--but it is not casting you in a good light. At all. You might want to consider amending it.

Why are you so hard on him? Just because he said that most comic-books are the same of pulp literature?
I agree with him, and we can put in the same league the majority of the popular entertainment like most of the action movies and TV series.
Where's the shame in it? Popular entertainment is something done mostly for commercial purpose and hardly gains the status of art.
You have to agree that not all of Kirby stories were of the same level, some of them basically were good workmanship. When he had the time and wish to experiment and push the boundaries of the medium (like in some New Gods stories or in Fantastic Four Annual # 6), his work elevated to the status of art.

 

[Malus]

Hoo boy, SeverianB. You's openin' a can o' worms, pal.
I've got only a few minutes this morning to throw together a response, so forgive me if it's a bit scattershot.

First, I'll keep this vaguely on-topic by saying that I think Tim Story has been annoyingly erratic about maintaining his blog. Even if it was just a couple of sentences a week that told us little or nothing, I'd have still been satisfied. Tim, you could have jotted a few words on a Post-It note once a week and given it to an assistant to put on your blog. It coulda been that day's lunch menu for cryin' out loud. But at least it would have been something. Instead your blog went updated, as long as 2 months at a time if I'm not mistaken.
I will say this though: What you did give us, when you did update it was solid stuff. It was great to read how excited you were about the Fantasticar. And someday maybe you'll let us in on what was really going on with that "Who should do the Surfer's voice?" post that got yanked a few hours later.
Your MySpace blog was something you didn't have to do; that most directors don't do, and erratic or not, the thought (and effort) was much appreciated by this fan.

Okay...

Let's not go overboard. There are some good comic artists out there, but if they were really that great, they wouldn't be doing comics, would they?

That may be true of the majority of today's artists, but there are some very obvious exceptions. I know a few guys who get a page rate far in excess of the pay they'd receive in advertising or any conventional "high" art. There are plenty of terrific creators who stick with the medium of comics because it is their chosen art form.
They're writers, but Straczynski & Whedon are examples of two creators who certainly could be making more money in television for the hours worked. Art Spiegelman certainly makes more from a New Yorker cover than he does from the same amount of time expended on a comics piece. And guys like Peter Bagge and Charles Burns surely enjoy depositing those big paychecks for the occassional Entertainment Weekly or Rolling Stone illustration more than they do the latest check from their respective comics publishers. But they stay in comics.

There's lots of other examples, I'm sure. Probably quite a few of today's hot shot superhero artists. I don't keep up with that "scene" the way I used to, so I'll leave it to someone more "hip" to offer up examples from today's "mainstream" comics.

But the bottom line is: We don't all stay in comics because it's the only work we can get.

Yeah, Jack Kirby and friends created some cool, out-there characters and ideas. I still don't consider it high art. I consider it pulp fiction.

There is no "higher" form of art than the elegant, seamless marriage of words and pictures that is comics.
Just as there is no "higher" form of art than sculpture.
There is no "higher" form of art than screenwriting.
Art is art. Period.

As for reducing the great Jack Kirby's work to "pulp fiction," jeez, where do I even start? I consider it tragic that a Roy Lichtenstein can achieve worldwide acclaim in the circles of "high art" while simultaneously ripping off the panel art of artists like Kirby completely uncredited. (And considering everything else Kirby had to contend with, this uncredited "sampling" by Lichtenstein was particularly offensive.)

Lichtenstein:

Lichtenstein's "inspiration" : The original panel of Magneto by Jack Kirby:

John Morrow has an excellent essay about this:
http://www.markstaffbrandl.com/TJKCarticle/TJKC.html

To me personally, and most other well adjusted adults I know, there are many forms of art that are just as "high". Many movies, paintings, books and real-life stories have moved me more than any comic book I've read. Not to say graphic novels can't have a deeper meaning, for example, Mause.

It's "Maus." (Gotta nitpick on how you spell a Pulitzer winner. )

I basically agree wiith you here, SeverianB, in that my experience has been somewhat the same as yours. I've yet to read a comic that moves me like certain episodes of M*A*S*H, St. Elsewhere, Hill Street Blues or Northern Exposure, to give a few examples just from the world of television. (Another "junk" art form according to some.)

But - I think that's because either:
a) Those comics or graphic novels have not been created yet
or (much more likely)
b) They do exist and I haven't yet been exposed to them.

In my opinion, most of the comics medium's best works have gone unrecognized. The supposed mainstream pays lip service to the greatness of Will Eisner (an d he was great) but 95% of today's audience don't know who Craig Thompson or Chris Ware are.
And again, these are creators who could be making much more money in the "real" art world.

I can't really wrap this up neatly, I have an appointment. But there you go...

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Why are you so hard on him? Just because he said that most comic-books are the same of pulp literature?
I agree with him, and we can put in the same league the majority of the popular entertainment like most of the action movies and TV series.
Where's the shame in it? Popular entertainment is something done mostly for commercial purpose and hardly gains the status of art.
You have to agree that not all of Kirby stories were of the same level, some of them basically were good workmanship. When he had the time and wish to experiment and push the boundaries of the medium (like in some New Gods stories or in Fantastic Four Annual # 6), his work elevated to the status of art.

That's not my point. There are many, MANY people that collect comics--and to them they are art. Like some artists collect expensive paintings, some readers (like myself) collect comics--some even having pieces that are worth big $$$ on the market. Such collectors would never "throw these things in the trash". Not just because of their monetary value--but in many cases because of the sentimental attachment to them.

Therefore, I found Severian's statements to be unnecessarily condescending and dismissive--especially considering the posts were made in a COMIC BOOK forum. Of all the boards and forums to frequent to discuss "pop culture" why diss the source material one forum is specifically geared to?

Judging by Highguard's comments, he puts comics on par with other great literary works. That's his opinion--and he came to the right place to express it. But Severian's reply was intended to humble Highguard's, as if to say "I know they're gold to you, but they're worthless **** to me." Did he specifically mean it that way? Probably (hopefully) not. But the connotation is the same. How is Highguard supposed to reply to that--without getting defensive? His views and interests--which many of us hold--were insulted.

I just think he could've found a different way of articulating that point Antonello.

 

[Carp Man]

Sounds like a bunch of male dogs having a pissing contest. It's the law of the jungle on these boards. If you do not stand up for yourself, noone else will. And he who does not stand up for themselfs gets burried. I am one who does, and if that po's some oh well. Don't come in here and make flamming comments. If you want to come here and say the 1st movie should be flushed down the toilet, and I'll never go see another FF movie, fine. It's still a free country, but do not come in here and insult individuals.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Why are you so hard on him? Just because he said that most comic-books are the same of pulp literature?
I agree with him, and we can put in the same league the majority of the popular entertainment like most of the action movies and TV series.
Where's the shame in it? Popular entertainment is something done mostly for commercial purpose and hardly gains the status of art.
You have to agree that not all of Kirby stories were of the same level, some of them basically were good workmanship. When he had the time and wish to experiment and push the boundaries of the medium (like in some New Gods stories or in Fantastic Four Annual # 6), his work elevated to the status of art.

It's not about his views it's about how he presents them to a comic forum,basically if you go into an Irish pub you don't start making Irish jokes you act with some respect.

 

[Carp Man]

It's not about his views it's about how he presents them to a comic forum,basically if you go into an Irish pub you don't start making Irish jokes you act with some respect.

Not if you like a good fight. t:

 

[Carp Man]

Since we are off the subject, let's go further. Like you avy there LS. I saw where Cap. dies in the upcomming issue. As we all know, heros come back to life in comics. If he doesn't, well it was an awsome run, and they are comming out with a movie. t:

 

[Spider-Fan]

I guarantee Cap will resurface by the time the movie is starting to get hyped, and more than likely sooner than that.

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

That's not my point. There are many, MANY people that collect comics--and to them they are art. Like some artists collect expensive paintings, some readers (like myself) collect comics--some even having pieces that are worth big $$$ on the market. Such collectors would never "throw these things in the trash". Not just because of their monetary value--but in many cases because of the sentimental attachment to them.

Collecting something doesn't elevate that thing to art, especially today when people collect everything form dessicated poo to broken joysticks.
I collect comics too, but I know that most of them are forgettable popular entertainment. A lot of people like eating Big Macs but don't tell me it's high cooking.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Collecting something doesn't elevate that thing to art, especially today when people collect everything form dessicated poo to broken joysticks.

Tell that to the people collecting the poo!

 

[SeverianB]

Egads.

I didn't mean to ANGER anyone, and I will stick to everything I said, however, I think the mistake I made is outlined below:

It's not about his views it's about how he presents them to a comic forum,basically if you go into an Irish pub you don't start making Irish jokes you act with some respect.

I thought this forum was dedicated to superhero MOVIES, not comics. I've just been coming at things from a movie-fan perspective. If this is a just a comic-book forum that happens to have some movie stuff on it, I apologize profusely. In that case, Hunter-Riders analogy is dead-on, and I was wrong to post my opinions here. They are still my opinions, and I stand by them.

 

[Carp Man]

Superhero movies have pulled comics from the brink. Comics are hot, and I do not see them declining anytime soon. Avi has pulled Marvel up by the bootstraps. GR has done well. We all know Spider-Man 3, and FF 2 will be hits. Then we have Surfer movies. Iron Man. Captain America. Hulk 2, FF 3. Mabey Spider-Man 4, and who knows what else.

 

[Carp Man]

Tell that to the people collecting the poo!

I don't know anyone who collects poo. Sounds a bit messy to me.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I thought this forum was dedicated to superhero MOVIES, not comics. I've just been coming at things from a movie-fan perspective. If this is a just a comic-book forum that happens to have some movie stuff on it, I apologize profusely. In that case, Hunter-Riders analogy is dead-on, and I was wrong to post my opinions here. They are still my opinions, and I stand by them.

A movie based on a comic therefore there are movie fans and comic fans both here that have been introduced to the FF in a different way.
The key is mutual respect of each other,so if you have the view you do that is fine but put it with a bit more respect and a little more emphasis on it beign your viewe instead of passing it as factual.

 

[Kelly]

Egads.

I didn't mean to ANGER anyone, and I will stick to everything I said, however, I think the mistake I made is outlined below:



I thought this forum was dedicated to superhero MOVIES, not comics. I've just been coming at things from a movie-fan perspective. If this is a just a comic-book forum that happens to have some movie stuff on it, I apologize profusely. In that case, Hunter-Riders analogy is dead-on, and I was wrong to post my opinions here. They are still my opinions, and I stand by them.

You are correct, and I understand exactly where you are coming from.....I apologize myself for coming off WAY TO STRONGLY in my reply to your post....BUT there is a balance I guess.....or maybe a semblance of a balance....I think it might have been in the wording of your post....

Heres the thing.....we would not have these Comicbook/Superhero MOVIES as it were, IF it were not for the passion of the comicbook fan.....and I think they deserve some respect simply in that.....and people simply should respect opinions......

Heck I've been known to disagree with alot of comicbook fans on certain issues, Hunter almost slapped me through the computer about a comment I made about Spiderman one day on IM's......(don't deny it Hunter, you know you wanted to)......BUT the fact still remains that they grew up with these characters, they are very excited to see them on the big screen......and "actor fans" like you and I would not have a chance to see our favorites portray these characters if it were not for the fans of those characters. we would probably not be here.

Just because they may be following something that seems childish to you....doesn't mean that it IS childish (its just childish in your opinion )....I think one of the reasons these types of movies do so well, is it pulls on the child in us, and then takes us on from there....(I think one of the downfalls of the first movie, was it forgot to "take us on from there")

It may not be high art to you...
It may not be literature to you...
It may not even be enjoyable to read to you...

BUT it is the reason you are on this forum following this movie.....and that IMO, deserves some respect for those that got us here....

 

[SeverianB]

A movie based on a comic therefore there are movie fans and comic fans both here that have been introduced to the FF in a different way.
The key is mutual respect of each other,so if you have the view you do that is fine but put it with a bit more respect and a little more emphasis on it beign your viewe instead of passing it as factual.

I thought I made it quite clear it was all my opinion. In fact I prefaced it with "Let me reply, don't take any offense"
My view is the movies are based off comics, but the movie needs to do what's best for a *movie*, not how best it copies the comic book/graphic novel. For Sin City, the movie being just like the book worked great.
For Spider Man, Rami's interpretation was very popular, even though it didn't resemble any Spider Man comics I had ever read.
For FF, many changes had to be made for the big screen. I thought it worked, and I like what Tim Story and co-workers did for the most part.
Once again, *I* am not offended by the fact that someone may think Kirby is better than DaVinci. However, I disagree with that, and I have to point out HOW MUCH I disagree with that to show just how little I care that the movie sticks to the comic book.
If the words I used to describe my disagreement, (TRASH, PULP FICTION) seem strong to you... good. They are supposed to be strong, because I strongly disagree. Again, I don't see any personal attack in my words.

 

[SeverianB]

BUT the fact still remains that they grew up with these characters, they are very excited to see them on the big screen......and "actor fans" like you and I would not have a chance to see our favorites portray these characters if it were not for the fans of those characters. we would probably not be here.

I understand. The thing is, I *am* a comic fan, I've never thrown away a comic in my life, in fact, I have a few in in bags with special acid-free backboards. That doesn't stop me from thinking most of them a pulp fiction and were orginally meant to be read by kids and thrown away. Maybe Stan Lee, Jack Kirby and their ilk meant us to squirrel them away like treasure as we have done, but I just don't get that impression.

Just because they may be following something that seems childish to you....doesn't mean that it IS childish (its just childish in your opinion )....I think one of the reasons these types of movies do so well, is it pulls on the child in us, and then takes us on from there....(I think one of the downfalls of the first movie, was it forgot to "take us on from there")

It may not be high art to you...
It may not be literature to you...
It may not even be enjoyable to read to you...

BUT it is the reason you are on this forum following this movie.....and that IMO, deserves some respect for those that got us here....

I respect that opinion, and I do enjoy reading the stuff. I just don't think most of it is high art, and I don't think most of it is important enough that the movies must stick to it, to the letter. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Kelly]

Let me reply.... don't take any offense.



{Opinion???}Let's not go overboard. There are some good comic artists out there, but if they were really that great, they wouldn't be doing comics, would they? {stated as fact}



{Opinion}Yeah, Jack Kirby and friends created some cool, out-there characters and ideas. I still don't consider it high art. I consider it pulp fiction. {Opinion}



{Opinion} Doesn't stagger me at all. They are cute little stories to me and most other people. (?????) There may be a lot of cultural "awareness" of the image of Superman, but I don't see anything great about it. {Opinion}

This is actually not something that comic fans quibble about....no one has said ANY OF THESE CHARACTERS ARE REAL....
Most adults know Superman is like Santa Claus... an imaginary friend. He's not gonna rise up and save anybody.


To me personally, and most other well adjusted adults (this was a slam, and I have a feeling you knew that ) {Opinion} I know, there are many forms of art that are just as "high". Many movies, paintings, books and real-life stories have moved me more than any comic book I've read. Not to say graphic novels can't have a deeper meaning, for example, Mause. {stated as fact} However, most are pulp fiction, made to be read and thrown away, in the trash.{stated as fact}

You wrote some great stuff there, but to me, it's over the top. I just don't care. And I think most people in the movie-going public agree with me. ?????????

P.S. E-Thuggery and Thread Hijacking is Lame. But immature Moderators who are too quick flex their E-Muscle are lame also... think about it. Carp Man overreacted, but Horatio was being an ass. Simple as that.

Hmmmmm......... this kind of weakened your entire post IMO.

It seems you stated your opinion, with little stabs to comic book fans describing them as no more than children....

Don't take offense.....might have lost its power with "other well adjusted adults".... and kind of went down from there.....

All is my perception......but what I've found in my many years of life is that "people's perception.....tends to be their truth whether or not you meant it as truth or not...."

 

[Hunter Rider]

I thought I made it quite clear it was all my opinion. In fact I prefaced it with "Let me reply, don't take any offense"
My view is the movies are based off comics, but the movie needs to do what's best for a *movie*, not how best it copies the comic book/graphic novel. For Sin City, the movie being just like the book worked great.
For Spider Man, Rami's interpretation was very popular, even though it didn't resemble any Spider Man comics I had ever read.
For FF, many changes had to be made for the big screen. I thought it worked, and I like what Tim Story and co-workers did for the most part.
Once again, *I* am not offended by the fact that someone may think Kirby is better than DaVinci. However, I disagree with that, and I have to point out HOW MUCH I disagree with that to show just how little I care that the movie sticks to the comic book.
If the words I used to describe my disagreement, (TRASH, PULP FICTION) seem strong to you... good. They are supposed to be strong, because I strongly disagree. Again, I don't see any personal attack in my words.

Everything you said was fine until the highlighted part,hell i even agree with some of it,the movies to me are often an elseworlds take on the characters but calling anything trash is simply baiting flames which leads to problems

 

[Kelly]

I understand. The thing is, I *am* a comic fan, I've never thrown away a comic in my life, in fact, I have a few in in bags with special acid-free backboards. That doesn't stop me from thinking most of them a pulp fiction and were orginally meant to be read by kids and thrown away. Maybe Stan Lee, Jack Kirby and their ilk meant us to squirrel them away like treasure as we have done, but I just don't get that impression.



I respect that opinion, and I do enjoy reading the stuff. I just don't think most of it is high art, and I don't think most of it is important enough that the movies must stick to it, to the letter. That's all I'm saying.

But, that is not what you said......
Had your post kept itself to what you just said......there would have been no problem on my part....

As far as "sticking to it to the letter"....I could probably count on 2 fingers the amount of people on this forum that think they should.....is there opinion not valid because of their purist views......are the childish, or maladjusted adults because of this opinion.....no.....just a different opinion from yours......I don't agree with a purist view myself....