Superman Returns to us, Superman is the greatest superhero, but does the public think the same?

[mathhater]

I loved Superman Returns...but even so, I found many, many problems with this movie. And the fault lies entirely with Singer and his screenwriters. They simply do not have a handle on the Superman of today's world.

Lex's portrayal was a version of the character that's been dead for 20 years (Spacey deserved so much more to work with), Lex's plan was sliiiightly insane...not fitting for the genius he's supposed to be, there was virtually no relationship between Clark and Lois (even in the Donnor movies, they had a much closer relationship,) and it didn't bother me that much, but I do concur that the action in this movie was not really fitting for the comic book crowd, and worst of all, (as exemplified by Singer's recent statements about the pregnancy and the kid) the director did NOT take the time to solidify or establish any kind of back story for this film.

He said the Donnor films were a vague history, but the vague-ness was SO vague that it constricted his own vision. Speaking of the kiss, "Oh I just ignored that part and assumed she remembered sleeping with him..." You can't do crap like that...you have to know what has gone on in this universe before...and not pick and choose certain bits and pieces of the past to make your own story work.

I hope that's why the film underperformed...that Singer messed up the character and not so much the public's view of the character. But even so, it's obvious that the general public prefers their pirates and mutants over Superman. Which is a shame. But hopefully, that's all Singer's fault.

(I still think Superman's the greatest superhero though... )

 

[NateGray]

I loved Superman Returns...but even so, I found many, many problems with this movie. And the fault lies entirely with Singer and his screenwriters. They simply do not have a handle on the Superman of today's world.

Lex's portrayal was a version of the character that's been dead for 20 years (Spacey deserved so much more to work with), Lex's plan was sliiiightly insane...not fitting for the genius he's supposed to be, there was virtually no relationship between Clark and Lois (even in the Donnor movies, they had a much closer relationship,) and it didn't bother me that much, but I do concur that the action in this movie was not really fitting for the comic book crowd, and worst of all, (as exemplified by Singer's recent statements about the pregnancy and the kid) the director did NOT take the time to solidify or establish any kind of back story for this film.

He said the Donnor films were a vague history, but the vague-ness was SO vague that it constricted his own vision. Speaking of the kiss, "Oh I just ignored that part and assumed she remembered sleeping with him..." You can't do crap like that...you have to know what has gone on in this universe before...and not pick and choose certain bits and pieces of the past to make your own story work.

I hope that's why the film underperformed...that Singer messed up the character and not so much the public's view of the character. But even so, it's obvious that the general public prefers their pirates and mutants over Superman. Which is a shame. But hopefully, that's all Singer's fault.

(I still think Superman's the greatest superhero though... )

Excellent post

 

[Visionary]

I´m not even gonna touch the rest of this rambling cuz these things were talked ad nauseum here, but on the Joker thing, first, Joker´s been in only one Batman movie, Lex was in three Superman movies before SR, second, he´s not the only villain in The Dark Knight, and third, we have seen all the most important villains in the Burton/Schumacher movies and Begins, if they look for a new villain our choices don´t go much better than Man-Bat or Clayface, who aren´t exactly A-list.

Ras Al Ghul is far from being an A-List villain, and he was used in BB, and it delighted a lot of people. Joker is in damn-near everything consisting of Batman, like Lex Luthor--in and out of comics/movie/TV shows/cartoons/video games/licesning. They're characters that we've seen a 100 times over, this is why Al Ghul was so refreshing to see on screen. Joker and Lex are great villains, but they really need to take a backseat in the movies. There are other villains that need to take form in these films.

BTW, who are the other villain(s) rumored to be in TDK?

 

[Tempest19]

As more of a Bats fan than Supes fan - even though I loved SR.... the others up possibly:

Two-Face: Ryan Phillipe- was this rumor kept or dismissed? No one knows- could go either way.

Penguin: Philip Seymore, or- forgot other actor. Penguin rumors been dismissed or just these two actors? Unsure.

It is possible that the Scarecrow may also show up since he wasn't "killed" in the previous Batman film. Also up possibly is Falcone again, possibly the bigger mafia family will begin to become involved.

Comic inspiration for the Joke- The Killing Joke. In other words, don't expect Nicholson it's going to be something completely different.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

This is a piss poor ass excuse, there is no Batman villain or Spider-Man villain that could have brought greatest to a comic book franchise like DARKSIED. People are tired of seeing Lex Luthor as Superman's main villain. Thus is why I'm the only one NOT happy with The Joker being in BB's sequel. Both villains are too ubiquitous amongst their various mediums. Not to metion, hanging on every whim of Donner's film didn't help matters. And don't get me started about that bastard child. The blame of this franchise failing lies with Bryan Singer, his writers and the overall story decisions. It has nothing to do with Superman being a boyscout, the villain (Darksied) would have brought all the darkness, blood, power, slavery, destruction and badass battles that was needed in the film. Bryan Singer is the reason for this uninteresting film's failing to connect with Superman's vast audience. Warner Bros., Legendary Entertainment and Bryan Singer are ignoring the real problems why it failed. I'm tired of hearing these idiotic excuses.

I can't agree with you hear old buddie, Joker has not been as overused as Luthor. And the problem is, is that Lex doesn't have any superpowers and Superman does so it makes for boring previews... atleast. (still haven't seen the movie yet) Thats why I'm in no hurry to see the movie, no supervillian. Lex has been in four Superman movies, give him a rest WB!

 

[Tempest19]

/\2009 possibility of seeing Lex and an unknown villain to be announced most likely in 2008.

Writers, I have heard wanted a supervillain, but Singer found it "too soon" to get supervillains involved and instead just focus on the main characters themselves.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

/\2009 possibility of seeing Lex and an unknown villain to be announced most likely in 2008.

Writers, I have heard wanted a supervillain, but Singer found it "too soon" to get supervillains involved and instead just focus on the main characters themselves.

If Singer said that: How is it "too soon" when SR was a sequel to Superman 1 and 2? The second one already gave us a Supervillian, Zod anyone?

AND I FOR ONE AM SICK AND TIRED OF THE "FOCUS ON THE MAIN CHARACTERS EMOTIONAL STATE" CRAP! THERE IS WAY TO MUCH FOCUSING ON THE CHARACTERS AND NOT ENOUGH FIGHTING SUPERVILLAINS IN COMICBOOK MOVIES AS OF LATE, PERIOD. THERE HAS TOO BE A BETTER BALANCE, BECAUSE TOO MUCH OF ANY ONE THING IS ANNOYING AND HURTS YOUR SUPERHERO FILM IMHO.

 

[Tempest19]

I don't think it was too soon either and would have loved to see a super villain. Perhaps Singer meant it in terms of those new to the character- but, that is even unlikely since MANY people know about these characters from one source or another. Thus, it wasn't too soon for a supervillain. Hoping and there probably will be a supervillain in the sequel. Hopefully Brainiac.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

The movie just proved somethin i already knew, names don´t sell.

Once again i said, Superman Returns is a great movie, for what it is, but fails in being a proper Superman movie.
And that has nothing to do with being boring, lacking action or whatever, because, IMO, anyone that says that, either has 12 or the attention span of a monkey.
Superman Returns fails because it´s a sequel to totally outdated franchise, long dead and buried, which is ridiculous.
Superman Returns failed at the box office because no one cared, because of the exact same reason, how can anyone care, when they saw the movie at the middle?
You expect anyone to remember how Superman came to be, how he and Lois ralation was, why Luthor hates him and stuff.
And because the average joe doesn´t remember, they can´t connect with the characters, and they just don´t care what is going on.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

AND I FOR ONE AM SICK AND TIRED OF THE "FOCUS ON THE MAIN CHARACTERS EMOTIONAL STATE" CRAP! THERE IS WAY TO MUCH FOCUSING ON THE CHARACTERS AND NOT ENOUGH FIGHTING SUPERVILLAINS IN COMICBOOK MOVIES AS OF LATE, PERIOD. THERE HAS TOO BE A BETTER BALANCE, BECAUSE TOO MUCH OF ANY ONE THING IS ANNOYING AND HURTS YOUR SUPERHERO FILM IMHO.

See, that´s why you will never make a comic book movie, because no one wants to see a Power Rangers movie

 

[Alonsovich]

See, that´s why you will never make a comic book movie, because no one wants to see a Power Rangers movie

Actually that's the reason why 99% of us will never make a single movie...

 

[The Kid]

True but I see spidey's point. Like how spidey 3's lookin like it'll be a decent balance of drama and knock-out pee-yourself once-in-a-lifetime epic action, it's just been long overdue for some super powered over the top stuff to be done with these heros. And 200+mil for a chick flick isn't exactly the proper approach spidey's wanting for these guys...

I understand it.

 

[Cyrusbales]

Actually that's the reason why 99% of us will never make a single movie...

Yay, I'm the 1%, lol

 

[Alonsovich]

Yay, I'm the 1%, lol

Lucky bastard...

 

[Tempest19]

Same here. Great to be in the 1% group! Actually might have a connection to Avi Arad in a couple of years.

To me, I focus on the psychology and emotion of the characters the most. One of the projects I definitely want to work on and understand is Batman Beyond which would take the concept and expand it to a Batman Begins type world- but REALLY dark, the reality of a world that leaned on a hero and the effects of that heroe's sudden dissapearence. There's alot of great aspects in that concept to be explored on film.

The other comic related project I'm working towards is Spider-Man: The Series which starts in Freshman year of High School (similarly to what happened in the classic comics) and the focus would be the Gwen Stacy and Green Goblin arc. A Shakespearean type TV series with a tragic conclusion. It will also have the sarcastic Spidey, parallel dimensions, lots of the classic villains and so on....

 

[Cyrusbales]

We should make the 1% thread group? lol

 

[Kabuki_Jo]

The movie just proved somethin i already knew, names don´t sell.

Once again i said, Superman Returns is a great movie, for what it is, but fails in being a proper Superman movie.
And that has nothing to do with being boring, lacking action or whatever, because, IMO, anyone that says that, either has 12 or the attention span of a monkey.
Superman Returns fails because it´s a sequel to totally outdated franchise, long dead and buried, which is ridiculous.
Superman Returns failed at the box office because no one cared, because of the exact same reason, how can anyone care, when they saw the movie at the middle?
You expect anyone to remember how Superman came to be, how he and Lois ralation was, why Luthor hates him and stuff.
And because the average joe doesn´t remember, they can´t connect with the characters, and they just don´t care what is going on.

Bryan should've followed Jon Peters' instructions.
J.P.: "You need an action bit every 10 pages"

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

True but I see spidey's point. Like how spidey 3's lookin like it'll be a decent balance of drama and knock-out pee-yourself once-in-a-lifetime epic action, it's just been long overdue for some super powered over the top stuff to be done with these heros. And 200+mil for a chick flick isn't exactly the proper approach spidey's wanting for these guys...

I understand it.

I also understand, like i understand that people are expecting way too much from Spider-Man 3.
Spider-Man 3 is going to be an incredible movie, that´s a given, that i do know already, because Raimi is going to make a movie in the same mold as the previous ones
But, as the previous ones are extremely overrated, this one is going to be as well, i just know it.
Raimi is a capable director, not a great one, and that is why, for as good as it is, Spider-Man will never be as good as it could.

Actually that's the reason why 99% of us will never make a single movie...

At least i´m safe from those 99%

 

[casketmouth]

it's upset that the mod has closed the thread to address the group of singermansuck, while allowing dozen of others threads to keep on bashing and trashing SR and Singer.

so the mods here just want us to bash and talk bad about SR?

anyway i continue the thread discussion here

to us, Superman is the greatest superhero and he should make the greatest BO. but is the public thinking the same???
would they think that he is silly, he is too good, too boring, too traditional, too outdated???
do you know that way before the movie, there were a lot of these internet polls about the greatest movie in 2006? SR has never won. it's always at the 3rd or 4th place, behind POTC2, X3 and Divinci Code. POTC2 won all the polls.

He's got un realistic views and he fathers a bastard child...that most likely turned off a lot of parents who believed in a man who can do no wrong. Honestly it's like what they tried to do with the jesus story when they came out with the divinci code. They tried to sabotage something buit in absolute honesty and innocence. Same goes for Supes. he could have still been a great hero, but the 5 year hiatus was boring. He has the same formular as Batman and spiderman, but the movie was just not directed well. Speilberg should have done it or Riddley Scott who know what they are doing. James Cameron anyone?

 

[casketmouth]

I also understand, like i understand that people are expecting way too much from Spider-Man 3.
Spider-Man 3 is going to be an incredible movie, that´s a given, that i do know already, because Raimi is going to make a movie in the same mold as the previous ones
But, as the previous ones are extremely overrated, this one is going to be as well, i just know it.
Raimi is a capable director, not a great one, and that is why, for as good as it is, Spider-Man will never be as good as it could.


At least i´m safe from those 99%

agreed 100% Spiderman could have been something if only it had more edge. has all the fun factor but none of the grit that even made venom and carnage important. Suprisingly, Spiderman's world could have been treated like Batman Begins where Nolan new he was not bringing a comicbook icon to life but just telling the story of an american mythos. Raimi knows he's directing a 'comicbook' movie. So did Singer. Honestly there has yet to be a fully satisfying superman movie where they really get the edge in. That's why teenagers and adults read comics. yes they are fun and sometimes campy, but the reason why spawn ruled the 90s and even got a movie before spiderman is because it was EDGE!!!! it had grit and yes the movie was horrid, but the direction of the whole spawn myths was untouched. form comic to movie to cartoon an several video games in less than 10 years??!! Un heard of!!! Because it was so worldly accepted due to the edge. That is why Sin City and Batman are forces to reckon with. Superman one was good at it's time but it does have very many unsupermanish moments.

 

[WormyT]

See, that´s why you will never make a comic book movie, because no one wants to see a Power Rangers movie

Hey the Power Rangers movie wasn't half bad.

 

[Tempest19]

agreed 100% Spiderman could have been something if only it had more edge. has all the fun factor but none of the grit that even made venom and carnage important. Suprisingly, Spiderman's world could have been treated like Batman Begins where Nolan new he was not bringing a comicbook icon to life but just telling the story of an american mythos.

You must be talking about the Todd McFarlene's days on writing Spider-Man. Because lots, or majority of the Spidey comics are not as dark and grity as Batman and Sin City. Two extremely different worlds. Yes, Venom and Carnage are gritier villains. But, that does not make Spider-Man dark. Spider-Man is a kid affair in concerns to Batman and Sin City. It is a fun filled adventure comic that from time to time does get dark, but not as dark as The DARK Knight and a SIN City. So, don't know exactly what you're getting at... did you expect Spidey to have as 'dark' a film as Batman Begins and Sin City? Because, Spidey is a completely different character than Batman.

Because, really- I'm at a loss of what you expected from Spider-Man tone wise.

Tone wise it got it right, but with the characters themselves it is taking some dramatical merits along the way. Such as giving Ock a wife, etc. But, I never see it as them not getting the tone right.

Note: Todd McFarlene is the comic book writer who introduced the character Venom to the world of Spider-Man.

 

[Ricky_Tan]

wormyt hit the nail on the head. very very mediocre film.

 

[Kabuki_Jo]

You must be talking about the Todd McFarlene's days on writing Spider-Man. Because lots, or majority of the Spidey comics are not as dark and grity as Batman and Sin City. Two extremely different worlds. Yes, Venom and Carnage are gritier villains. But, that does not make Spider-Man dark. Spider-Man is a kid affair in concerns to Batman and Sin City. It is a fun filled adventure comic that from time to time does get dark, but not as dark as The DARK Knight and a SIN City. So, don't know exactly what you're getting at... did you expect Spidey to have as 'dark' a film as Batman Begins and Sin City? Because, Spidey is a completely different character than Batman.

Because, really- I'm at a loss of what you expected from Spider-Man tone wise.

Tone wise it got it right, but with the characters themselves it is taking some dramatical merits along the way. Such as giving Ock a wife, etc. But, I never see it as them not getting the tone right.

Note: Todd McFarlene is the comic book writer who introduced the character Venom to the world of Spider-Man.

I agree.

 

[Alonsovich]

Hey the Power Rangers movie wasn't half bad.

It wasn't half bad. It was TOTALLY bad...