Tom Welling as Superman

[Docker2.0]

I think the problem that most people have is the bad choice to play Bats and Supes, the horrible script(though it's rumored to be changed), the film being rushed, not to mention that guys playing the heroes except Gale and Common LOOK like teens. That's why its called Teen JLA.
Oh! Marvel rejecting the script by the Smallville writers was brilliant. You see the BO results. I love Smallville(though it's sucking now)but Favreau and Marvel are doing a great job with their movies.

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

I think the problem that most people have is the bad choice to play Bats and Supes, the horrible script(though it's rumored to be changed),

The horrible script?
Who read it apart from the executives who ranked it as one of the best of 2007?

 

[Docker2.0]

The same execs who loved Catwoman? That goes really far.
I know what you are saying dude but honestly, WB is run by idiots. They do their other properties good but don't have a clue about their superheroes. I predicted last week that within 2 weeks the WB would announce something with one of their properties due to the success of IM so this week it should come out. Why am I so confident? Becuase the WB seems to only react to what Marvel is doing. We didn't hear about JLA until Penn was announced to write the Avengers. I wouldn't be surprised if GL and Flash got a big push now.

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

The same execs who loved Catwoman? That goes really far.
I know what you are saying dude but honestly, WB is run by idiots.

I don't approve some of their productive decisions (like the required alterations to "I am Legend") but I tend to think they know a couple of things about the business more than fanboys.
And the Catwoman script never ended in the Script blacklist as the JL one.

 

[AgentPat]

You forgot Anton Yelchin (18)

Y'know, perception goes a long way towards making or breaking buzz, especially when the likes of Hollywood Reporter say Warners was casting 19 and 20 years olds for JL. True or not, the perception among those who were aware of the production was that it was being cast with a bunch of young nobodies, and that didn't sit well with anybody, apparently.

And this...

The horrible script?
Who read it apart from the executives who ranked it as one of the best of 2007?

...And the Catwoman script never ended in the Script blacklist as the JL one.

Is contradictory at best. If the script was so good, why'd it end up on a "blacklist?" (Never heard that, but whatever.)

When the film was first teased as being in development, the consensus seemed generally positive. Big budget. Known production team. FX house. Costumes. The works. Then things got shaky with conflicting information about the script, which had been touted as no less than awesome on a stick by people such as Greg I'm-so-confused Noveck, Senior Vice President of Creative Affairs @ DC Comics...

10/17/07

GREGORY NOVECK: The reason that Justice League is powering forward first [before MOS] is because the script came in and it was phenomenal.

VOICES FROM KRYPTON: It's really that good?

GREGORY NOVECK: It is, and that very rarely happens in Hollywood on a movie of this scale, and when it does you have no choice but to say, “We'd better catch lightning in a bottle and go!” All of a sudden, six months later, who knows what's going to happen? You want to hold on to those writers, you've got massive interest from directors, you land someone like George Miller, so you go...

http://www.voicesfromkrypton.com/2007/10/dcs-gregory-nov.html​

Opinion changed fast, I guess. Maybe somebody actually read it at some point, I dunno?

I was all for a JL film. I didn't have any issues with there being casting "confusion" with other established franchises (Superman, Batman, or even Smallville.) I didn't have any issues with George Miller, the production team, rumored script elements or character choices. The cast however, left a lot to be desired, and that's an understatement. To this day, people still b**** about Gale, and lets not even mention Hammer or Cotrona. And no, it's not just fanboys - unless the entire internet is populated by them.

Then again... maybe it is?

*goes back to happy place*

 

[Docker2.0]

Get back in here and make great points Pat!

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

You forgot Anton Yelchin (18)

Y'know, perception goes a long way towards making or breaking buzz, especially when the likes of Hollywood Reporter say Warners was casting 19 and 20 years olds for JL. True or not, the perception among those who were aware of the production was that it was being cast with a bunch of young nobodies, and that didn't sit well with anybody, apparently.

Perception. I got shivers down my spine when I think some people endorse wars based on "perceptions". And anyway Yelchin, who was mentioned only on SHH!, was cast to be Wally West, who's supposed to be younger than the other heroes.

Is contradictory at best. If the script was so good, why'd it end up on a "blacklist?" (Never heard that, but whatever.)

It's a list compiled by agents and executives of the best scripts in the market for the year.
http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/black-list-2007-1-danny-strongs-recount/

It only got two mentions, probably due to the facts that not being a spec script, it wasn't available to lots of people.

 

[jayskate]

The contradiction with Warners , is that on one hand they or the creative teams behind Batman Begins , The Dark Knight , The 300 and Watchman show they can deliver really cool films .

Yet for Superman and the JLA , they get caught in circles .

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

The contradiction with Warners , is that on one hand they or the creative teams behind Batman Begins , The Dark Knight , The 300 and Watchman show they can deliver really cool films .

Yet for Superman and the JLA , they get caught in circles .

Have you seen the JLA movie already?

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

I think the problem that most people have is the bad choice to play Bats and Supes, the horrible script(though it's rumored to be changed), the film being rushed, not to mention that guys playing the heroes except Gale and Common LOOK like teens. That's why its called Teen JLA.
Oh! Marvel rejecting the script by the Smallville writers was brilliant. You see the BO results. I love Smallville(though it's sucking now)but Favreau and Marvel are doing a great job with their movies.

You forgot Anton Yelchin (18)

Y'know, perception goes a long way towards making or breaking buzz, especially when the likes of Hollywood Reporter say Warners was casting 19 and 20 years olds for JL. True or not, the perception among those who were aware of the production was that it was being cast with a bunch of young nobodies, and that didn't sit well with anybody, apparently.

And this...

Is contradictory at best. If the script was so good, why'd it end up on a "blacklist?" (Never heard that, but whatever.)

When the film was first teased as being in development, the consensus seemed generally positive. Big budget. Known production team. FX house. Costumes. The works. Then things got shaky with conflicting information about the script, which had been touted as no less than awesome on a stick by people such as Greg I'm-so-confused Noveck, Senior Vice President of Creative Affairs @ DC Comics...

10/17/07

GREGORY NOVECK: The reason that Justice League is powering forward first [before MOS] is because the script came in and it was phenomenal.

VOICES FROM KRYPTON: It's really that good?

GREGORY NOVECK: It is, and that very rarely happens in Hollywood on a movie of this scale, and when it does you have no choice but to say, “We'd better catch lightning in a bottle and go!” All of a sudden, six months later, who knows what's going to happen? You want to hold on to those writers, you've got massive interest from directors, you land someone like George Miller, so you go...

http://www.voicesfromkrypton.com/2007/10/dcs-gregory-nov.html​

Opinion changed fast, I guess. Maybe somebody actually read it at some point, I dunno?

I was all for a JL film. I didn't have any issues with there being casting "confusion" with other established franchises (Superman, Batman, or even Smallville.) I didn't have any issues with George Miller, the production team, rumored script elements or character choices. The cast however, left a lot to be desired, and that's an understatement. To this day, people still b**** about Gale, and lets not even mention Hammer or Cotrona. And no, it's not just fanboys - unless the entire internet is populated by them.

Then again... maybe it is?

*goes back to happy place*

The script for Justice League was bad because when the script was first done and the one that got the movie the green light in the first place was suppose to tie Superman Returns and Batman Begins together and put them together with the whole Justice League. The problem was Nolan and Singer didn't want that and put up a huge fight over it. Therefore they had to do a complete 360 and it just didn't work for them. That is what happened to the killer script they once had. It's a shame I would have loved to see how they could get Singer's Superman and Nolan's Batman to fit into the same setting.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

The contradiction with Warners , is that on one hand they or the creative teams behind Batman Begins , The Dark Knight , The 300 and Watchman show they can deliver really cool films .

Yet for Superman and the JLA , they get caught in circles .

People from DC Comics was just as involved with Superman Returns as they were with Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. Thats why I don't get these sigs saying the WB is run by idiots. Many people say Superman would never act the way he did in Superman Reutrns and then I tell those people go read Superman: For Tomorrow and that is the Superman you got in Superman Returns. I can understand people being upset with certain movies but then again is this really a surprise if you follow comic book sales Marvel kicks DC butt every time. Hell Superman isn't even a top 10 selling comic book anymore he barely even makes the top 20 and that is DC running things so whats the problem there? Is DC run by idiots as well? Smallville isn't that great or as loved as it use to be so what if they took SV to the big screen under the name Superman it wouldn't have done that much better. The fact of the matter is Marvel for the past 20 years have been kicking DC butt be it in movies with X-Men, Spider-Man, Iron Man, etc and in cartoons (when they had them) X-Men, Spider-Man, Hulk, Iron Man. Which is why I say the problem is not that the WB is run by idiots it is just that more people like their heroes then they do DC and there is nothing wrong with that. Iron Man got a huge push with the Iron Spidey suit, Civil War and being tied into the Death of Captain America arc and is now the head of S.H.I.E.L.D. so yes he is going to do well. Superman and Batman are going to pull the numbers they have been getting mainly because people just don't care to much about them right now. Its not because Routh is Superman or because Superman was to dark or had little action or that people were still upset by Batman and Robin or that Batman Begins had little action. It's just that people don't care and that is reflected by their comic sales which in turn gives the buzz for why this person is cool. Now all that may change however with The Dark Knight mainly because you have the last movie made by Heath Ledger which was a very public death and that will play in favor for this movie. Had he not died The Dark Knight would have probably made at most 250 million and would the WB still be run by idiots when Iron Man is doing 300 mil + and The Dark Knight would have only done 250 (will still probably the numbers it will make because it is to dark for kids). Thats why I say be it Routh, Welling, Bale, or who ever the results would have stilled turn out the same because no one cares about DC's Heroes any more and haven't for a while now.

 

[Docker2.0]

Yes the WB is still run by idiots.

 

[RakuMon]

The difference between DC and Marvel? I posted this in the Talon originally:

You know the difference between the producers behind Marvel movies and the, to paraphrase trip, idiots at WB? Marvel gets their comic writers in a room together with their filmmakers and brainstorm ideas and cherry pick the best bits for a movie. The reason a second tier Marvel character like Iron Man (or a seventh tier one like Blade) can make a mint at the B.O. while A-listers like Wonder Woman, Flash and GL can't even get off the ground.

Check out what Brian Michael Bendis (writer of Ultimate Spider-Man) had to say about the "brain trust" that was formed for Iron Man:

(WARNING: there's an Iron Man spoiler in the link)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=16292

----

OK!! so, because the veil of secrecy has been lifted and because i can smell this coming up on every rumor blog there is... part 2 of the 'iron man movie secrets i have been holding in for over a year' posts!

before the iron man movie was set to film but way into active pre production, i, and others, got a super secret call asking if we'd read the iron man script as it existed and come to the set for what is now referred to as the iron man brain trust. we were hand picked by jon f. and kevin f. for our unique takes on the character.

i was there, mark millar, axel, joe, tom and a few others who may or may not want me airing thier biz. we were flown out and brought to the stages which were the howard hughes spruce goose warehouses. (which in itself was awesome)

we were brought through the sets and the armor as they were being built and met the entire staff. all of which was filmed for the dvd. i have no idea if it will make it in. i half hope it doesn't. i wasn't my usual glam self.

we then sat in a big room with the marvel guys and jon f. all day and went through everything. we talked about everything. every inch of it. we looked at the spx houses demo reels audtioning for the job. and yes the best reel got the gig, obviously.

truth told. the script was in pretty damn good shape at this stage. but that wasn't the point. the point to me is a good idea is a good idea and a bad one is a bad one, doesn't matter where it came from. there is a lesson here.

irregardless of my participation... the fact that this brain trust was even created showed such intense respect for the character and it's legacy. a half hour into the meeting i was so happy to be in the room i was going to burst. comic creators not being treated like the second class porn peddlars we used to treated like but actual writers. it was very cool.

i am thrilled this movie hit. from my eyes they did everything right and for once in hollywood that was rewarded.

----

Is it any wonder that Batman Begins was successful because it had a director who was willing to consult with a known comics guy like David Goyer to fashion his superhero film? Instead of demanding his singular vision be dictated on screen?

And if you look at Smallville, most people's favorite seasons were two and three. And not coincidentally, those were the seasons in which Jeph Loeb was the head writer. Even DeKnight has talked about being the sole voice of (comics) reason in the writers room at times.

If WB is serious about doing profitable movies, they need to take a cue from Marvel. The one advantage that DC always had was that all of its characters were under one roof. (Unlike Marvel which had licensed its biggest names to different studios.)
Well, that ain't the case any more. The success of Iron Man proves that a faitful adaptation of the comics that is well acted and has a great cast and crew can be box office gold. Why WB can't get their act together with all of the iconic characters they have under their belt is a mystery that the world's greatest detective couldn't even solve.

 

[Syncos]

The fact of the matter is Marvel for the past 20 years have been kicking DC butt be it in movies with X-Men, Spider-Man, Iron Man, etc and in cartoons (when they had them) X-Men, Spider-Man, Hulk, Iron Man. Which is why I say the problem is not that the WB is run by idiots it is just that more people like their heroes then they do DC and there is nothing wrong with that.

Whoa whoa whoa. Hold your horses there, buddy. I grew up in that era, watching the animated series of both competitors. and Marvel's series never even came close to anything of the timmverse. You could argue that it was because of Bruce Timm and not DC, but putting Timm in charge was an executive decision done by WB.

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

The difference between DC and Marvel? I posted this in the Talon originally:

Do you know who are the writers for the Green Lantern movie? And John August consulted with Geoff Johns before writing his Captain Marvel script.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

Whoa whoa whoa. Hold your horses there, buddy. I grew up in that era, watching the animated series of both competitors. and Marvel's series never even came close to anything of the timmverse. You could argue that it was because of Bruce Timm and not DC, but putting Timm in charge was an executive decision done by WB.

See here is where you can make a good argument about these series because IMO and as much as I love Superman I felt that X-Men: TAS and Spider-Man: TAS were better then Superman: TAS. IMO also I think X-Men were much better then the first two seasons of Justice League (Story wise). IMO Justice Leauge became real good when it went from JL to JLU where in JLU you had more mature storyline and opened yourself up to the whole DCU.

 

[AgentPat]

Perception. I got shivers down my spine when I think some people endorse wars based on "perceptions".

Well y'know, I also dislike sweet potatoes, which is rather embarrassing around Thanksgiving since it's a standard side dish on that day. I always leave 'em on my plate, which is kind of ironic considering the nature of that holiday, y'know?



Wait? Where were we? Oh yes, movies and entertainment...

And anyway Yelchin, who was mentioned only on SHH!, was cast to be Wally West, who's supposed to be younger than the other heroes.

And? He was still young, and that's the point. THR listed quite a few thesps as auditioning for various roles, and most of them were very young, hence the perception of a teen JLA.

But y'know what? It doesn't matter. More than likely, I still would have seen the film. I think others would have too. The reviews would have had to be absolutely horrific (professional as well as lay), and the cast would have had to be the most pathetic looking line-up ever for general audiences to say thanks but no thanks.

It's a list compiled by agents and executives of the best scripts in the market for the year.
http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/black-list-2007-1-danny-strongs-recount/

It only got two mentions, probably due to the facts that not being a spec script, it wasn't available to lots of people.

Ah, so in this case, "blacklist" means good. Well, I guess that supports people's opinions then, because Warners had a great script but changed it at the eleventh hour due to poor planning/communication. For something that's the foundation of a 200 million dollar investment, that makes them "idiots."

Look, I don't believe Warners is run by idiots for real. I think the label is hyperbole and one clearly born out of frustration with a studio that doesn't seem to know its ass from its elbow when it comes to planning a thigh-slappingly good, edge-of-your-seat entertaining superhero flick.

 

[Mikelus]

Antonello, amico italiano, thank goodness JL is apparently going nowhere, the rumored cast was terrible! They need older actors, that really look the part, Cotrona as Superman is a joke, Brody is too skinny for the Flash, Hammer is too young, etc. Even the title Justice League Mortal is wrong, WB has to rethink everything again. They can do it right, but it takes time, is better to wait a couple of years, after the Batman and Superman sequels are done.

Ciao!

 

[Docker2.0]

Whoa whoa whoa. Hold your horses there, buddy. I grew up in that era, watching the animated series of both competitors. and Marvel's series never even came close to anything of the timmverse. You could argue that it was because of Bruce Timm and not DC, but putting Timm in charge was an executive decision done by WB.

I actually agree with USM when he says that the Xmen and Spidey cartoons were better than the Bats and Supes. That being said, we can all say that Spidey and the Xmen ARGUEBLY had a better series at the time.

 

[RakuMon]

Do you know who are the writers for the Green Lantern movie? And John August consulted with Geoff Johns before writing his Captain Marvel script.

Well, the most recent updates speculated Marc Guggenheim was writing a script. And I had heard rumors about Johns’ involvement with Shazam, but the point is both of those movies are stuck in development hell. Same goes for Wonder Woman and Flash. The point is that the DC-based movies that have actually moved forward in the last few years have been lacking compared to the progress Marvel has made.

 

[blksuperman2]

Whoa whoa whoa. Hold your horses there, buddy. I grew up in that era, watching the animated series of both competitors. and Marvel's series never even came close to anything of the timmverse. You could argue that it was because of Bruce Timm and not DC, but putting Timm in charge was an executive decision done by WB.

I concur. As much as I loved both X-men & Spider-man TAS they both couldn't come close to the timm/dini-verse DC animations. As far as the art was concern Marvel was better but IMO nothing topped Batman TAS. The stories and feel of every episode was just epic. Probably one of the best animated TV series ever.

IMO of course.

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

Well, the most recent updates speculated Marc Guggenheim was writing a script. And I had heard rumors about Johns’ involvement with Shazam, but the point is both of those movies are stuck in development hell. Same goes for Wonder Woman and Flash. The point is that the DC-based movies that have actually moved forward in the last few years have been lacking compared to the progress Marvel has made.

Let's do this in order:

• It's not "speculated" that Marc Guggenheim is writing a script. He's delivering a first draft he wrote with Greg Berlanti and Michael Green.
• Shazam and Green Lantern are not in development hell. They are instead in active development, as they have scripts and directors attached. For Shazam there might be some problems due to the fact that New Line was reorganized, but the project is still far from development hell.
• The same goes for Wonder Woman who now has new writers on board.
• For Flash I think they stopped the development when they decided to go on with the Justice League and use the "passing of the torch" in that movie.

Anyway you have to remind that Iron Man has been in development hell since the early 90's changing studios, directors and screenwriters and stars. The same happened to Daredevil, Ghost Rider, Spider-Man and the X-Men.
And Warner Bros has a library of characters and properties far larger than the DC Universe to choose from.
But I'm sure you are all smarter than the people at Warner, so you can keep on saying they're all idiots.

 

[Mikelus]

Talking about being smarter, Superman Returns could've been a lot better if WB would've done this:

- A different supervillain to confront Superman, like Brainiac, instead of repeating the lame schemes of Lex Luthor.
- Clark telling the truth to Lois, no Richard, no Jason. Just Clark and Lois dealing with how to be a couple when Superman has to save the day.
- Keeping Christopher Reeve's suit, same design, maybe just a little darker, not the cheap looking, horrible suit Singer & co. did.

WB can be really moronic sometimes, they're human after all, but they better get their act together if they don't want to be humiliated by Marvel.

 

[b24]

did anyone notice Smallville refrence in SR

there was scene in ssesaon 3 spisode Relic where Jorlel tells louise that "where he is from is much diffrent than here and u see colours u have never seen before "

louis replies "u almost had me there "

then Jor el lifts louis in the mid air and they float above the ground and when louis looks down she getts little bit scared and hugs Jorel

there was similar scene in SR when superman meets loin on roof of DP and where superman lifts lois in the mid air same like in Smalville

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

Talking about being smarter, Superman Returns could've been a lot better if WB would've done this:

- A different supervillain to confront Superman, like Brainiac, instead of repeating the lame schemes of Lex Luthor.
- Clark telling the truth to Lois, no Richard, no Jason. Just Clark and Lois dealing with how to be a couple when Superman has to save the day.
- Keeping Christopher Reeve's suit, same design, maybe just a little darker, not the cheap looking, horrible suit Singer & co. did.

WB can be really moronic sometimes, they're human after all, but they better get their act together if they don't want to be humiliated by Marvel.

I agree with most of what you said here only you could have kept Richard and Lois being engaged to him and it still would have fell under the same tone of your Superman Returns story.