The Amazing Spider-Man Too Soon!?

[TheSlag]

So, to sum up- even though these films are in the overall good, villains learning his identity- even though they each learned them under different circumstances, for different reasons and with different results is problematic. Why? Because they can threaten his loved ones. And this is a problem because....? I mean the villains are going too threaten someone- that's why they're villains.
So what if they're his loved ones? I mean I agree that it always being MJ got tiresome, but....

No, to sum it up again for you, have EVERY villain find out his secret takes away from making it special when ONE (or two) does.

Exactly. Otherwise all you have is her death, which renders it a gimmick.

It was a gimmick in the way it was written.

Gwen was badass. She was tough, brave and a scrapper. She WANTED to face the dangers with Peter (Which is why he comes off as cowardly for not being honest.) Again, you don't have to sell me on the power of ASM !21 & 122. I own them, and I love them.

1) I loved Gwen too 2) for someone who loves ASM 121 and 122 I find it amusing that you are arguing AGAINST seeing those story arcs come to life on the big screen.

Because its a pointless event. Gwen's character would have to be introduced for no reason other than to be killed and so Peter can move onto his relationship with MJ. It's anti-climactic. There are many great moments in Spidey history that the filmmakers would do well in presenting. Defeating the Sinister Six. The Master Planner arc. Peter merely being sad because he couldn't save Gwen adds little to the movie franchise. And since we aren't going to see the Goblin implaed on his glider twice, the poetic ending is lost.

In the comics her death hit so hard because it was unexpected. She wasn't supposed to die. It wouldn't be the same in the films.

You claim it's pointless because it was written that way, where Peter did not quit being Spider-Man, or whatever. And for someone who supposedly loves Gwen and thinks she is "badass", you think her character (introduced into the movies) would ONLY serve as a tool for her to die?

I think Gwen brought more to the table than that.

Gwen's death would be unexpect for the general viewing audience. And who's to say they have to play out the Goblin's demise the exact same way (impaled by his own Glider)?

Not key. Just big. All of the other aspects can exist independently of Gwen dying.

I never said they couldn't exist on their own. And big aspect is a key one in my book.

None. I've made my point.

More power to you if you think you have.

And it would be the same in the movies. So what's the point?

The point being the story has NOT been told in the movies. Have you been reading?

Well, you obviously have been settling for less and will contniue to until you yourself can make a Spidey movie. That's why I've been making my own.

I thought we just decided I had not settled, that here I was griping about something that in general had high acclaim. That does not sound like settling to me. But glad you are the KNOW ALL when it comes to Spidey and what OTHER Spidey fans are doing.

Good luck with "your" movie. I have seen some of the clips, and I will refrain from stooping to "your" level and implying it is "settling for less".

Then you are a man of fine taste.t:

I couldn't agree more, being a Spider-Man fan.

So who says that realism means something bad happening? It was in fact, unrealistic that Gwen died under the circumstances. That bullet dodging Spidey couldn't move her out of the way of the Goblin's attack. That she would suffer a fatal whiplash from being snagged by a flexible webline.

The realism I am talking about is the fact that when one chooses this line of work, sometimes your loved ones pay the ultimate price. Sorry if you did not follow that.

It has nothing to do with how much credit you give anyone. It's simple numbers. The people here, and especially those griping, would scarcely fill a theater, let alone the tens of thousands that Spidey played to. So those griping are not the majority by a long shot.

You think the minority have a problem with EVERY villain finding out his identity, I think it's a majority. Guess we will just have to agree to disagree, cause I know of no way to prove either side.

Actually there's been two aspects discussed. Goblin legacy & villains knowing Peter's ID.

Yes but that one quoted item involved the point of every villain discovering his secret.

Well.. In nearly 50 years of Spidey comics it has only rarely happened so I guess you'd have to ask the villains. or the writers. Maybe it's not draamatic enough.. But from a reasoning stand point, villains have other goals in mind aside from just hurting Spidey. Spidey has beaten them repeatedly, so I suppose they'd go for the girlfriend first to do the most damage in one place. She's the best target.

And Peter wouldn't tell everyone, because he can't be sure how much he can trust them. friend or not. Several of his friends have at various times themselves become villains. But he has to trust the woman that shares his life, as she must be able to trust him.

Probably has not been written because having Peter reveal his secret to all his loved ones would make it LESS special when he reveals it to the few (MJ).. you KNOW kinda like the approach of LIMITING which villains discovers his secret as opposed to Raimi's approach of EVERY frickin one. t:

And besides, it would just be stupid too for him to reveal to every loved one.

But he'd still risk his neck to save them.

I never said he wouldn't. You brought up the every person on the street BS.



[qote]I didn't say that, you did. I said he should have told Gwen. It has nothing to do with who he'd fight hardest for.

And do you really think Peter could maintain an intimate relationship, let alone a marriage and keep his secret? Just from a practicality stand point he needed to be honest with Gwen to avoid the many silly fights they had just because he wanted to hide his identity.[/quote]

The same logic would apply to ALL his loved ones, and friends then, or else he is just being cowardly (according to you).

The Michael Jackson thing: "We are the world.. We are the children..."t:

Never been a big MJ fan. Sorry.

I'm not saying you shouldn't. I'm just saying I've chosen to be realistic. I gave up on expecting to see what I want in a Spidey movie with Organics and the power ranger Goblin suit. Sony will toss at us whatever they think will stick without going against their own likes and dislikes (Thus no Lizard and why we would've gotten the Vultress if 4 had happened). I'm going to see what happens, but I'm not expecting to be on the ticket line in 2012 at this point.

Well, I can understand your frustration with some of these, definitely the Power Ranger Goblin, or surfer dood Goblin 2, or ALL about ONE girl, or.. or... or...

But I still think this is the best medium available to us to make our voices heard at Sony. Do I think it will make a difference, probably not, but I'm a fan and I will keep screaming from the top of the tower.

And I hope the reboot will be great. I worry, but I hope. Come 2012, I will DEFINITELY be in the ticket line, and something tells me your kidding yourself, and you will be too.

 

[TheSlag]

This has become the Slag and Dragon thread.

I agree, and I propose to Dragon (for the sake of the thread and other posters) we take a que from Joker and spider-neil, and simply let it go, and agree to disagree.

 

[topdog1]

All you have to do is look at the tiny 80 million dollar budget and Sony knows that they have a potential turkey on their hands. The shame of it all is that they had the pieces in place to make Spider-Man 4 instead of this Spider-Boy reboot. General audiences will NOT like taking Spider-MAN back in to a teenager this soon. I'm a Marvel fanatic and I HATE the idea. Maybe after giving Raimi/Maguire one last shot and taking a few years off, this would've been acceptable. Now, this is a cluster flub waiting to happen.

3D or not, I'm genuinely unexcited and may even pass on this project. This coming from a guy who spent literally hundreds of dollars for friends and family to see the Fantastic Four films. My Marvel loyalty only goes so far.

 

[Dragon]

No, to sum it up again for you, have EVERY villain find out his secret takes away from making it special when ONE (or two) does.

Yeah, just like every villain commits crimes in every film. That isn't special either, right? Or does the fact that they commit different crimes for different reasons with different results make them special? Same with the villains knowing his secret.

The Goblin attacked his family.
Ock did nothing.
Harry threatened MJ with Peter's life, not vice-versa.
Venom threatened MJ
Sandman did nothing.

All different. The films are events, so I guess the producers wanted them to focus on the big dangers. We know that Peter has faced other criminals ("My enemies" Spidey 2). So not all of them know his secret. Just the ones the films focused on.

It was a gimmick in the way it was written.

The writing is the only way to define it.

1) I loved Gwen too 2) for someone who loves ASM 121 and 122 I find it amusing that you are arguing AGAINST seeing those story arcs come to life on the big screen.

Just because I love the comics doesn't mean it needs to be translated to screen. Do something new. Use other storylines that translate better.

You claim it's pointless because it was written that way, where Peter did not quit being Spider-Man, or whatever. And for someone who supposedly loves Gwen and thinks she is "badass", you think her character (introduced into the movies) would ONLY serve as a tool for her to die?

It would. Ultimately she'd still wind up dead.

I think Gwen brought more to the table than that.

Of course she did. Which is why killng her was pointless in the comics and would be equally pointless on screen. Gwen would have brought so much more story potential than MJ ultimately did. There'd have been no need to continually write her out of the storyline as with MJ. But since Conway couldn't see that, we're left with that "legacy".

Gwen's death would be unexpect for the general viewing audience. And who's to say they have to play out the Goblin's demise the exact same way (impaled by his own Glider)?

The Goblin's death was one of the best moments of the comics you so want to see. "So do the proud men die.. Crucified Not on a cross of gold, but on a humble stake of tin". Beautiful. The Goblin dying via his own weapon, which he used to kill Gwen is poetic.

I never said they couldn't exist on their own. And big aspect is a key one in my book.

Big= Shocking, powerful. Key= integral, supportive of the whole.

The point being the story has NOT been told in the movies. Have you been reading?

Actually it has. Or did you not see Spidey 1? The only difference was that MJ lived. Every other aspect is there.

I thought we just decided I had not settled, that here I was griping about something that in general had high acclaim. That does not sound like settling to me. But glad you are the KNOW ALL when it comes to Spidey and what OTHER Spidey fans are doing.

If you're supporting the films and they're less than what you want them to be, then you're settling for less. Merely griping on these boards does nothing.

See, I actually like the films, so I'm not settling for anything. They're not how I would do them, but they're good nonetheless.

Good luck with "your" movie. I have seen some of the clips, and I will refrain from stooping to "your" level and implying it is "settling for less".

I don't even know what that means ("your"??). Since I'm making the film the way I want it to be, I'm not settling for less.

I couldn't agree more, being a Spider-Man fan.

At least we agree on something.

The realism I am talking about is the fact that when one chooses this line of work, sometimes your loved ones pay the ultimate price. Sorry if you did not follow that.

And most of the time they don't. So you're not looking for realism. You're looking to see Gwen killed.

You think the minority have a problem with EVERY villain finding out his identity, I think it's a majority. Guess we will just have to agree to disagree, cause I know of no way to prove either side.

The very fact that the majority don't come to boards like this to gripe about it. They go see the movies, enjoy them and move on.

Probably has not been written because having Peter reveal his secret to all his loved ones would make it LESS special when he reveals it to the few (MJ).. you KNOW kinda like the approach of LIMITING which villains discovers his secret as opposed to Raimi's approach of EVERY frickin one. t:

Peter didn't reveal his identity to MJ. She learned it on her own. Thus my point. He should have revealed it to Gwen, and it would've been special. And why do you think revealing himself to MJ is okay, but not Gwen?

And besides, it would just be stupid too for him to reveal to every loved one.

It is stupid. Both story-wise and character-wise. So why do you keep bringing it up?

I never said he wouldn't. You brought up the every person on the street BS.

It isn't BS. He would and does risk his life for every person on the street.

I didn't say that, you did. I said he should have told Gwen. It has nothing to do with who he'd fight hardest for.

And do you really think Peter could maintain an intimate relationship, let alone a marriage and keep his secret? Just from a practicality stand point he needed to be honest with Gwen to avoid the many silly fights they had just because he wanted to hide his identity.

The same logic would apply to ALL his loved ones, and friends then, or else he is just being cowardly (according to you).

No, the same logic wouldn't apply. He's been able to maintain friendships with little trouble due to his keeping his identity a secret.

Well, I can understand your frustration with some of these, definitely the Power Ranger Goblin, or surfer dood Goblin 2, or ALL about ONE girl, or.. or... or...

But I still think this is the best medium available to us to make our voices heard at Sony. Do I think it will make a difference, probably not, but I'm a fan and I will keep screaming from the top of the tower.

And I have no problem with that. I wish you the best. It just doesn't matter to me anymore.

And I hope the reboot will be great. I worry, but I hope. Come 2012, I will DEFINITELY be in the ticket line, and something tells me your kidding yourself, and you will be too.

Funny that above you attack ME for being a "KNOW ALL", but it's okay for you to tell me what I will and will not do. I don't need to see these movies. No, I really won't be in line unless I see something really impressive in prior to 7-3-2012. Which I may. I haven't yet. But life's an adventure.

 

[Superman-Prime]

I. HATE. SONY.

 

[Doc Ock]

I. HATE. SONY.

*high five*

 

[DACMAN]

You know I just thought of something. Those of you that think this movie is coming out too soon, DON'T GO SEE IT!

No one is forcing you to go see this movie. If you don't want more Spidey this soon just rent the movie years and years after it comes out or however long it takes for you to want to see a Spider-Man movie again. I will never understand how someone can say they are a fan of Spider-Man and not want more movies. I can understand someone saying "I hope it doesn't suck." I hope it doesn't suck. I want the best superhero movie ever! I can understand someone saying they think it might suck, but I will never understand someone saying "let's wait for like 20 years before we get more Spidey." Because guess what? The movie we get in 20 years might suck.

But any way, if you don't want it this soon, don't see it. It's not rocket science. The funny thing is everyone here is so going to go see it. Period. Anyone who comes here to post about a movie that isn't coming out for over 2 years is going to go see it the moment it comes out.

 

[©KAW]

I LOVE RAIMI'S SQUISHY CHEESE.

Fixed.

 

[chaseter]

Hey Dac...awaiting for you to respond to me in here.

Also...I would hate to find a post from you saying that SM4 was going to suck.

 

[Doc Ock]

DACMAN, not all Spider-Man fans want a movie, some only like the comics, some may only like the TV shows, some may only have watched and liked the movies. There are many different kinds of fans out there, many of who could care less about the movies.

 

[Superman-Prime]

Fixed.

You're an idiot. You don't need to do like that.

I have a good reason not to be happy with Sony. They should have work on the 4th film. I'm SICK of the reboot.

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

Fixed.

Cheese is a good thing. Being ZOMFG SUPERSRS!11111 is another. And yet, Spidey MUST quip, and they had better be top notch, not cheesy quips.

 

[©KAW]

You're an idiot. You don't need to do like that.

I have a good reason not to be happy with Sony. They should have work on the 4th film. I'm SICK of the reboot.

Come on, you have three movies, THREE, can't you let those who want something different have ONE film? You cannot be that selfish.

 

[©KAW]

Cheese is a good thing. Being ZOMFG SUPERSRS!11111 is another. And yet, Spidey MUST quip, and they had better be top notch, not cheesy quips.

Cheesy quips are one thing, entire cheesy movies are quite another. You see, some directors can't control their cheese. They let it run all down their legs...until it covers their shoes. What we need is someone, anyone, who knows how to clutch it up real tight like...and control their cheese flow from within.

 

[DACMAN]

DACMAN, not all Spider-Man fans want a movie, some only like the comics, some may only like the TV shows, some may only have watched and liked the movies. There are many different kinds of fans out there, many of who could care less about the movies.

There is a difference between not wanting a film to happen and just not caring about a film. If there is a Spider-Man fan out there that really doesn't want a movie (though I don't think so) all he/she has to do is not see the movie. I don't want to read about the Spider-Man Manga stuff. If people enjoy that version of Spidey good for them.

 

[DACMAN]

Hey Dac...awaiting for you to respond to me in here.

Also...I would hate to find a post from you saying that SM4 was going to suck.

Ok, AGAIN there is a difference between thinking a movie won't be any good and wanting a movie to suck. I will never want a Spider-Man movie to suck. Why would anyone want any movie to suck, even more so when the movie is about your favorite character? Why do I find everytime I talk to you I have to repeat myself?

And second, I've caught on to the fact that you're kind of a jerk. I've decided to stop talking to you. You pick fights constantly. If you want to consider this a win go nuts as long as understand that I'm done repeating myself to you. Life is too short to post the same thing over and over because the guy reading isn't smart enough to get it the dozen times. So I'm done conversing with you. In fact I think I'm going to stop talking to you in mid sente.....

 

[chaseter]

So, I post a link to refute you and I am a jerk? I then make a friendly bet because I am positive I am right and you are wrong...but you refuse. At least you stopped blabbing false hoods about Raimi.

Dac, I had to listen to you for 3 years in here griping and whining about how much you dislike Raimi, how much you disliked SM3, and how much you will dislike SM4. The shoe is on the other foot now.

 

[DACMAN]

I never said I was going to hate Spider-Man 4. I was concerned about some of the things I was hearing. "Vulturess"? I think everyone was worried.

And the difference between you and me is I wanted Spider-Man 3 to be awesome. I really enjoyed a lot of things about Spider-Man 1 and 2 just to see Raimi ruin them in 3 (even though I enjoyed some parts of 3). I can never look past the fact he made the Sandman Uncle Ben's killer. I'm sure that will be one of the first things they fix in this reboot. And while I wanted Spider-Man 3 to be awesome, you seem pretty dead set against this movie even though you haven't seen it yet. I'll never want anything Spider-Man related to suck.

 

[RustyCage]

So quantity > quality? You should look into the Twilight series.

I never said a thing about sacrificing quality. I'd appreciate it if you didn't say I said things that I didn't. Of course I value quality. What a rubbish retort.

But here's something that might come as a surprise to you: Time is not equal to quality, and it CAN be wasted. You, as a Spidey fan, should know that last bit by now. Spending more time on a movie doesn't automatically make it better than if it had come out sooner. To assume so is naive, reckless, and unproductive.

Further, what impact does the Twilight series have on Spider-man besides potentially competing for box office winnings? Spider-man is not Twilight, they'll make Spidey how they make Spidey. Twilight sucks because Twilight sucks. It's got nothing to do with how fast the movies are released.

 

[RustyCage]

I never said I was going to hate Spider-Man 4. I was concerned about some of the things I was hearing. "Vulturess"? I think everyone was worried.

What is it with this guy and pretending people have said things that they haven't, and then arguing with said unsaid things as if he's making some kind of relevant point?

 

[DACMAN]

It's called a "straw man argument." He does it all the time. He's not the worst though. That would be venomvsspidey.

 

[DACMAN]

I never said a thing about sacrificing quality. I'd appreciate it if you didn't say I said things that I didn't. Of course I value quality. What a rubbish retort.

But here's something that might come as a surprise to you: Time is not equal to quality, and it CAN be wasted. You, as a Spidey fan, should know that last bit by now. Spending more time on a movie doesn't automatically make it better than if it had come out sooner. To assume so is naive, reckless, and unproductive.

Further, what impact does the Twilight series have on Spider-man besides potentially competing for box office winnings? Spider-man is not Twilight, they'll make Spidey how they make Spidey. Twilight sucks because Twilight sucks. It's got nothing to do with how fast the movies are released.

All good points. Not to mention the movie isn't even coming out right after 3. We're getting it a full 5 years later! That's a while. Spider-Man 2 came out 2 years later! The Dark Knight came out 3 years after Batman Begins, while the HULK even took 5 years before the reboot.

How can these guys run around screaming they don't want another Spider-Man movie and still call themselves fans? I would even take Raimi's Vulturess SM4 movie over no movie at all. I love me some Spidey.

 

[©KAW]

And the difference between you and me is I wanted Spider-Man 3 to be awesome.

The trailers were AWESOME (they fooled the HIT out of me) it's the actually movie that wasn't.

 

[RustyCage]

@DAC

I dunno about settling for Vulturess, unless it was shockingly well written and Raimi miraculously fixed Peter/Spidey/MJ's characters. Even then I'd still have that bitter taste of improperly cooked symbiote in my mouth. Siiigh.

But yeah, I was making a very similar point around page 5 that you replied to quite nicely.

 

[Deaths Head II]

All good points. Not to mention the movie isn't even coming out right after 3. We're getting it a full 5 years later! That's a while. Spider-Man 2 came out 2 years later! The Dark Knight came out 3 years after Batman Begins, while the HULK even took 5 years before the reboot.

How can these guys run around screaming they don't want another Spider-Man movie and still call themselves fans? I would even take Raimi's Vulturess SM4 movie over no movie at all. I love me some Spidey.

I am very happy to have another Spider-Man film but I'm worried about having a reboot this early all the same. Not just what it means for Spider-Man but what it means for super hero films as a whole.