The Dark Knight Two Face Revealed

[The Joker]

Sadly? This goes hand in hand with Tim Sale's take on the character. No better Two Face can be found in comics.

No, it doesn't. They describe Two Face as a second personality in Dark Victory. When Batman goes to see him in Arkham, he doesn't even remember who Gilda is.

 

[Crook]

Sadly, judging by Eckhart's interviews it seems that, rather than the disfigurement triggering a split personality, Two-Face is just Harvey Dent pushed to the extreme.

Hm, never really saw it that way.

I'm fine with Two-Face being an amplified persona of Harvey, but I'd be quite disappointed if they don't show both personalities fighting to take over. Ironically, you take away half of the character going that route.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Yeah, one thing I noticed is that he always refers to Two-Face as "Harvey Two-Face".

Man, Schumacher used to call him that, too. I always laughed whenever he said it. Why can't they just call him Two-Face?

 

[S.D. Plissken]

Does everyone think that Long Halloween is really that great?

 

[MiniBond]

Does everyone think that Long Halloween is really that great?

Uhmmmmmmm............


........................YEAH UH !!!!!!!

 

[Keyser Soze]

Hm, never really saw it that way.

I'm fine with Two-Face being an amplified persona of Harvey, but I'd be quite disappointed if they don't show both personalities fighting to take over. Ironically, you take away half of the character going that route.

I dunno. While that's certainly a valid, and often used take on the character, I also like the less common interpretation of the "Two-Face side" being in complete control. Namely, the coin flip isn't Harvey Dent and Two-Face fighting over what to do, but rather is an expression of Two-Face's complete, utter cynicism: life and death decided on the flip of a coin.

And I guess, if they WERE wanting to drop the schizophrenia angle, it wouldn't be too big a leap to have "Two-Face's" cynicism just be Harvey's cynicism. But yeah, if they're dropping the split personality angle, they do risk losing a good deal of character nuance.

 

[Crook]

I dunno. While that's certainly a valid, and often used take on the character, I also like the less common interpretation of the "Two-Face side" being in complete control. Namely, the coin flip isn't Harvey Dent and Two-Face fighting over what to do, but rather is an expression of Two-Face's complete, utter cynicism: life and death decided on the flip of a coin.

And I guess, if they WERE wanting to drop the schizophrenia angle, it wouldn't be too big a leap to have "Two-Face's" cynicism just be Harvey's cynicism. But yeah, if they're dropping the split personality angle, they do risk losing a good deal of character nuance.

That and TLJ's take already did this, as well as Anton Chigurh. Two-Face needs to pave his own way.

 

[S.D. Plissken]

I don't know if they are completely throwing out the idea of a split personality for two-face.

I remember reading that Nolan had shot some of the same scenes with Eckhart in two different ways, recording two different performances (a la Gollum in LOTR films).

I think we are going to be suprised by what they all decided on, but a character opportunity as good as what two-face represents will not be passed over.

I think we should expect loyalty to the comics in that regard...

 

[S.D. Plissken]

Uhmmmmmmm............


........................YEAH UH !!!!!!!

Ok, I guess that works....

 

[Crook]

...

 

[Dirt Like Me]

I dunno. While that's certainly a valid, and often used take on the character, I also like the less common interpretation of the "Two-Face side" being in complete control. Namely, the coin flip isn't Harvey Dent and Two-Face fighting over what to do, but rather is an expression of Two-Face's complete, utter cynicism: life and death decided on the flip of a coin.

And I guess, if they WERE wanting to drop the schizophrenia angle, it wouldn't be too big a leap to have "Two-Face's" cynicism just be Harvey's cynicism. But yeah, if they're dropping the split personality angle, they do risk losing a good deal of character nuance.

I don't think this will be the case. Remember the rumors a few months ago saying that Nolan shot Eckhardt doing the same scene multiple times, to be digitally combined so he would argue Gollum-style? If that's true, it sounds like they inner conflict will be there, and will be played up heavily.

...and somebody just beat me to raising this point. (I think it was CHUD that had the rumor, too).

 

[S.D. Plissken]

I don't think this will be the case. Remember the rumors a few months ago saying that Nolan shot Eckhardt doing the same scene multiple times, to be digitally combined so he would argue Gollum-style? If that's true, it sounds like they inner conflict will be there, and will be played up heavily.

...and somebody just beat me to raising this point. (I think it was CHUD that had the rumor, too).

Yeah, it was CHUD, and then it was on BOF.....

 

[StorminNorman]

Does everyone think that Long Halloween is really that great?

Yes. Its easily the best Batman story I have read.

 

[StorminNorman]

No, it doesn't. They describe Two Face as a second personality in Dark Victory. When Batman goes to see him in Arkham, he doesn't even remember who Gilda is.

But Two Face begins as more or less vigilante Harvey Dent. His idea of right and wrong has become completely skewed. When he is locked in Arkham, he begins to truly lose himself to this other personality. Since this movie would only focus on early Two Face, I was referring to mainly TLH Two Face.

 

[The Joker]

But Two Face begins as more or less vigilante Harvey Dent. His idea of right and wrong has become completely skewed. When he is locked in Arkham, he begins to truly lose himself to this other personality. Since this movie would only focus on early Two Face, I was referring to mainly TLH Two Face.

Fair enough.

When you said Tim Sale's take on Two Face, I assumed you were talking about the character in general, who does have the split personality.

Not to mention his speech balloons as Two Face indicate he has some kind of monstrous voice.

 

[S.D. Plissken]

Yes. Its easily the best Batman story I have read.

Better than The Dark Knight Returns? Year One? Hush?

I dunno....

I think the ideas in Long Halloween were better expanded by Nolan and co, but really that's all they are in Long Halloween--ideas without much real conclusion.

 

[The Joker]

Hush, now that is an overrated story. I didn't buy Hush's motivation at all.

Gorgeous artwork in it, though.

 

[StorminNorman]

Fair enough.

When you said Tim Sale's take on Two Face, I assumed you were talking about the character in general, who does have the split personality.

Not to mention his speech balloons as Two Face indicate he has some kind of monstrous voice.

I think this Two Face in the next film will be Tim Sale's Two Face in Dark Victory - which is why I used 'Tim Sale Two Face' and not just TLH. I really didn't see Tim Sale's Two Face in TLH as a complete departure from Harvey Dent - it wasn't an alternate personality, not yet. I like the idea of Arkham Asylum playing the role in escalating Two Face's condition.

 

[StorminNorman]

Better than The Dark Knight Returns? Year One? Hush?

I dunno....

I think the ideas in Long Halloween were better expanded by Nolan and co, but really that's all they are in Long Halloween--ideas without much real conclusion.

Yes, yes and yes. I felt the scale and story telling of TLH was fantastic. The art is beautiful. It is a perfect Batman novel - a good mystery set in a world of freaks and criminals.

 

[Keyser Soze]

But Two Face begins as more or less vigilante Harvey Dent. His idea of right and wrong has become completely skewed. When he is locked in Arkham, he begins to truly lose himself to this other personality. Since this movie would only focus on early Two Face, I was referring to mainly TLH Two Face.

Fair enough.

When you said Tim Sale's take on Two Face, I assumed you were talking about the character in general, who does have the split personality.

Not to mention his speech balloons as Two Face indicate he has some kind of monstrous voice.

To be fair, Joker and StorminNorman, you're kinda both right.

It's made deliberately ambiguous, just how seperate Harvey Dent and Two-Face are in "The Long Halloween"/"Dark Victory". On one hand, like Joker says, Two-Face has a different voice, and claims not to know who Gilda is, among other things to suggest he's a totally different personality.

But on the other hand, there are times when Two-Face acts more like Harvey Dent, saying "Gilda" (in the Two-Face voice) while locked up in Arkham, or spurning Posion Ivy's advances while looking at a photo of Gilda. Plus, The Joker makes the sardonic remark, "For all his talk, what did Two-Face really want? Getting rid of a bunch of gangsters. Same as ol' Harv."

 

[S.D. Plissken]

Hush, now that is an overrated story. I didn't buy Hush's motivation at all.

Gorgeous artwork in it, though.

Yeah, Jim Lee is an incredible artist.

 

[StorminNorman]

I love Lee - but I honestly prefer Sale's work with Loeb

 

[S.D. Plissken]

I love Lee - but I honestly prefer Sale's work with Loeb

Do you put Loeb's writing above Moore or Gaiman?

 

[gwynplaine]

Sales and Lee are fantastic artists but I don't really like their Joker. Horse teeth or superpointy nose don't work for me and I prefer when the Joker is less exagerated like with Kane, Bolland or even McDaniels (I think that's his name), the new Batman artist who does a beautiful Joker. But that's just my taste and to each their own.

 

[S.D. Plissken]

Sales and Lee are fantastic artists but I don't really like their Joker. Horse teeth or superpointy nose don't work for me and I prefer when the Joker is less exagerated like with Kane, Bolland or even McDaniels (I think that's his name), the new Batman artist who does a beautiful Joker. But that's just my taste and to each their own.

The joker looks very cool in his first appearance. I also like him in The Killing Joke, even though I don't really like the story....

I can't really think of a definitive joker.

I will say that I'm not much of a fan of Sale's art, but some of his work is awesome. His take on two-face was one of the better things about TLH. The first closeup and the panel of him with falcone at his feet...

very cool.