vegata( when he first came to earth) vs superman

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

First I'm not a fanboy.

Second,Post-crisis Superman could beat ssj3 Goku.
PC Sups beats the crap out of any dbz character.

I know that the z-fighters can destroy a planet.

There are no feats to prove that they can move or fly at the speed of light.
and we don't know their strength or durability.

So before you actually post do your research okay?because you can't tell the difference between a fanboy and a normal fan.

I'm a big fan of dbz but I am not a fan boy.
Edit:And to tell you how we say who wins,we compare the feats that both characters did and which one has the better feats wins.

And I hope I wasn't rude by ignoring your post,but it's just that I use feats to show how powerful a character is,I don't really care about science and al that.

Like I said,I look at what Goku did an see what feats he has and look at what the other character did and who has the better speed feats,strength and durability feats wins.

For e.g. Goku vs Hulk,I would go with Goku,just becuse he is faster then him and if IIRC Hulk can't survive planet destroying blasts,but if he can then I'll go with Hulk.
But seeing hoe he can't then Goku wins.

Goku vs Sups,Sups wins,he can take Goku's punches and his strongest attack.
So yeah Sups wins even though I don't like it,but this is how it is.

And this is coming from a big dbz fan.

id bet goku could take one of supes punches as well..goku has takes punches and blasts that could level mountians and cities without even budging. in martial arts, it doesnt matter how strong your opponent is. gouke can just divert all supes punches because goku is way out of supes league in fighting ability. more strength doesnt mean victory...

 

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

and if were are talkin anime vegeta vs anime supes. vegeta would kill supes. but if were talkin bout the magna/comic then pre supes wont even know hes fighting

 

[Jplaya2023]

First I'm not a fanboy.

Second,Post-crisis Superman could beat ssj3 Goku.

To much irony to point out

 

[hippie_hunter]

To much irony to point out

Says the Dragonball Z fanboy

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

First I'm not a fanboy.

Easily could have fooled me.

Second,Post-crisis Superman could beat ssj3 Goku.
PC Sups beats the crap out of any dbz character.

Pre-crisis Superman could. PostCOIE Superman would struggle against many of the villans, and probably lose to Buu.

I know that the z-fighters can destroy a planet.

We all know that.

There are no feats to prove that they can move or fly at the speed of light.
and we don't know their strength or durability.

Actually, their strength could be surmised through some of their earlier feats, or the fact that most of them don't try to use any form of heavy objects around them as weapons, which would make sense.

But since there's no feats to prove they could move or fly faster or at the speed of light, it would be logical to assume they don't, unless it's through circumventual means such as instantaneous movement.

So before you actually post do your research okay?because you can't tell the difference between a fanboy and a normal fan.

Oh, I easily can. Research is a ton of what I do. But fanboys give unrealistic limits without much thought to their character, and use craptacular examples to back themselves up. Which, up until this post, you were doing.

I'm a big fan of dbz but I am not a fan boy.
Edit:And to tell you how we say who wins,we compare the feats that both characters did and which one has the better feats wins.

Feats are good and all. But you have to see the bigger picture. Bigger feat doesn't exactly make a win. Hulk has the potential to lift mountains, yet I definitely wouldn't give him a win over a DBZ character at any stage in the series.

And I hope I wasn't rude by ignoring your post,but it's just that I use feats to show how powerful a character is,I don't really care about science and al that.

Comparisons demand thinking in scientific terms. When people just go off the handle at "Oh, we don't care about any form of progressive thought, we'll just use our own terms for one character, and a different set for another," you get stupid battles. And you get stupid people to fill them.

To compare people, you have to use the SAME conditions. And since DBZ feats have never (at least to me) moved too far outside the world of physics (Energy redistribution is hardly against the rules, though just amplifying your strength and stuff like that needlessly might be.) they can easily be put into a physical environment.

Like I said,I look at what Goku did an see what feats he has and look at what the other character did and who has the better speed feats,strength and durability feats wins.

And while those are good for general things, Superman and Goku are more fine tuned, and have to be observed from more standpoints than that. They're not in their normal environments, so we have to assume potentials more than feats.

For e.g. Goku vs Hulk,I would go with Goku,just becuse he is faster then him and if IIRC Hulk can't survive planet destroying blasts,but if he can then I'll go with Hulk.
But seeing hoe he can't then Goku wins.

Agreed. Though that was a potential comparison, which is exactly what I'd love to see used.

Goku vs Sups,Sups wins,he can take Goku's punches and his strongest attack.
So yeah Sups wins even though I don't like it,but this is how it is.

I don't see Superman taking Goku's strongest attacks, but all of Goku's strongest attacks take up way too much time for a speedster like Superman to use. And since this environment has to favor both characters, speed is of the essence.

Though through this speed, Goku has the greatest advantage. Goku, and most Z fighters, are juggernauts in the speed fighting category, where Superman hardly uses his speed in the same fashion, and would definitely struggle in the keep up category with Goku. Superman would have to rely purely on his raw power to actually defeat Goku. And since we assume it's on a planet that this fight takes place (Goku cannot breath in space), only if it's nightfall will Goku have the greatest advantage, since Superman has no replenishing source, where Goku might by simply pulling in the energy around him.

Based on pure potential, Superman definitely has the win. Goku has far too many disadvantages for someone with an allegedly genius like intellect such as Superman's to make a win.

And this is coming from a big dbz fan.

Not all DBZ fans are total idiots. Just most.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

id bet goku could take one of supes punches as well..goku has takes punches and blasts that could level mountians and cities without even budging. in martial arts, it doesnt matter how strong your opponent is. gouke can just divert all supes punches because goku is way out of supes league in fighting ability. more strength doesnt mean victory...

Actually, Goku has never taken a punch that could level a mountain as much as use his own energy to hold back energy that can destroy mountains. His physical structure is nowhere near as powerful as his energy usage.

Though if we're going back to the "better fighter" category, you'd have to have Goku and Superman in the same strength level. If Goku's super fast, but only half as strong as Superman, where Superman could definitely spend hours fighting someone in his strength class, Goku's fighting ability wouldn't do him too well for anything more than dodging. And since Goku would require massive amounts of energy to dodge Superman's super speed punches for hours, this is where Goku's stamina problem comes in. He simply just doesn't last as long. Stamina, strength, durability. Those are the cardinal factors in fighting. That and the ability to use those, which Superman definitely has.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

and if were are talkin anime vegeta vs anime supes. vegeta would kill supes. but if were talkin bout the magna/comic then pre supes wont even know hes fighting

Seeing how Superman was never in Anime, definitely.


But if we're talking Superman the Animated Series Superman, or JLU Superman, that would definitely be a much more even fight.

And Post COIE/Pre IC Superman would just be far too strong and durable.

 

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

Seeing how Superman was never in Anime, definitely.


But if we're talking Superman the Animated Series Superman, or JLU Superman, that would definitely be a much more even fight.

And Post COIE/Pre IC Superman would just be far too strong and durable.

lol u know wat i meant though

 

[buutenks]

Actually, Goku has never taken a punch that could level a mountain as much as use his own energy to hold back energy that can destroy mountains. His physical structure is nowhere near as powerful as his energy usage.

Though if we're going back to the "better fighter" category, you'd have to have Goku and Superman in the same strength level. If Goku's super fast, but only half as strong as Superman, where Superman could definitely spend hours fighting someone in his strength class, Goku's fighting ability wouldn't do him too well for anything more than dodging. And since Goku would require massive amounts of energy to dodge Superman's super speed punches for hours, this is where Goku's stamina problem comes in. He simply just doesn't last as long. Stamina, strength, durability. Those are the cardinal factors in fighting. That and the ability to use those, which Superman definitely has.

Actually Goku did.

ssj2 Goku took punches from majin vegeta who was destroying all the mountains around him just with the shockwave of his punches.

And kaio-ken 10 Goku kicks Freeza in the face so hard that Freeza hits an island destroying part of it and hits another island destroying part of it and Freeza didn't even felt it.

Perfect Cell punched fpssj Goku so hard that he went right in a mountain destroying it.

Oozura Gohan destroyed a 50 m stone pillar with one punch and he had a power level of 2100 and Gohan with a power level of 2800 kicks Nappa so hard that he hits a mountain and he destroys it completely.
Vegeta punches Reccom so hard that he hits a mountain and he destroys part of it.

Ussj Vegeta throws Cell so hard that he takes down the top of a mountain.

And there is more.

Edit:And ssj2 Goku was destroying all the mountains around him as well.

 

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

Actually, Goku has never taken a punch that could level a mountain as much as use his own energy to hold back energy that can destroy mountains. His physical structure is nowhere near as powerful as his energy usage.

Though if we're going back to the "better fighter" category, you'd have to have Goku and Superman in the same strength level. If Goku's super fast, but only half as strong as Superman, where Superman could definitely spend hours fighting someone in his strength class, Goku's fighting ability wouldn't do him too well for anything more than dodging. And since Goku would require massive amounts of energy to dodge Superman's super speed punches for hours, this is where Goku's stamina problem comes in. He simply just doesn't last as long. Stamina, strength, durability. Those are the cardinal factors in fighting. That and the ability to use those, which Superman definitely has.

i mean buu's puches could break through mountians but when he punched goku, goku just smiled at it. it also happened with hildegarn in movie 12or 13 i forget.... and you say supes can go fighthing hours with someone in his strength class but if thats so, then like i said before goku is the better fighter. just cause superman can lift a planet doest mean that equals a good fighter. plus superman cant dodge all gokus hits and pretty much after awhile goku will predict all supes' moves. why? because supermans fighting ability is far less superior than the people that goku has faced in his time. goku has unlimited moves and techniques which he can switch at anytime, while supes has a few in comparison.remember..Also, goku would know where to hit superman to cause damage. i think this fight is decided based on experience alone and nothing more

 

[buutenks]

Easily could have fooled me.



Pre-crisis Superman could. PostCOIE Superman would struggle against many of the villans, and probably lose to Buu.



We all know that.



Actually, their strength could be surmised through some of their earlier feats, or the fact that most of them don't try to use any form of heavy objects around them as weapons, which would make sense.

But since there's no feats to prove they could move or fly faster or at the speed of light, it would be logical to assume they don't, unless it's through circumventual means such as instantaneous movement.



Oh, I easily can. Research is a ton of what I do. But fanboys give unrealistic limits without much thought to their character, and use craptacular examples to back themselves up. Which, up until this post, you were doing.



Feats are good and all. But you have to see the bigger picture. Bigger feat doesn't exactly make a win. Hulk has the potential to lift mountains, yet I definitely wouldn't give him a win over a DBZ character at any stage in the series.



Comparisons demand thinking in scientific terms. When people just go off the handle at "Oh, we don't care about any form of progressive thought, we'll just use our own terms for one character, and a different set for another," you get stupid battles. And you get stupid people to fill them.

To compare people, you have to use the SAME conditions. And since DBZ feats have never (at least to me) moved too far outside the world of physics (Energy redistribution is hardly against the rules, though just amplifying your strength and stuff like that needlessly might be.) they can easily be put into a physical environment.



And while those are good for general things, Superman and Goku are more fine tuned, and have to be observed from more standpoints than that. They're not in their normal environments, so we have to assume potentials more than feats.



Agreed. Though that was a potential comparison, which is exactly what I'd love to see used.



I don't see Superman taking Goku's strongest attacks, but all of Goku's strongest attacks take up way too much time for a speedster like Superman to use. And since this environment has to favor both characters, speed is of the essence.

Though through this speed, Goku has the greatest advantage. Goku, and most Z fighters, are juggernauts in the speed fighting category, where Superman hardly uses his speed in the same fashion, and would definitely struggle in the keep up category with Goku. Superman would have to rely purely on his raw power to actually defeat Goku. And since we assume it's on a planet that this fight takes place (Goku cannot breath in space), only if it's nightfall will Goku have the greatest advantage, since Superman has no replenishing source, where Goku might by simply pulling in the energy around him.

Based on pure potential, Superman definitely has the win. Goku has far too many disadvantages for someone with an allegedly genius like intellect such as Superman's to make a win.



Not all DBZ fans are total idiots. Just most.

Acutally Goku can stay in space for a couple of minutes,Baradock in the manga was in space when he fought Freeza and he was fine.

 

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

Acutally Goku can stay in space for a couple of minutes,Baradock in the manga was in space when he fought Freeza and he was fine.

and brolly was flying in space destroying meteors and planets. even vegeta was on some type of moon or planet that wasnt earth's witout any space gear on and survived(b4 he turned ssj)

 

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

plus goku would never get stuck in space since he has i.T

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Actually Goku did.

ssj2 Goku took punches from majin vegeta who was destroying all the mountains around him just with the shockwave of his punches.

And kaio-ken 10 Goku kicks Freeza in the face so hard that Freeza hits an island destroying part of it and hits another island destroying part of it and Freeza didn't even felt it.

Perfect Cell punched fpssj Goku so hard that he went right in a mountain destroying it.

Oozura Gohan destroyed a 50 m stone pillar with one punch and he had a power level of 2100 and Gohan with a power level of 2800 kicks Nappa so hard that he hits a mountain and he destroys it completely.
Vegeta punches Reccom so hard that he hits a mountain and he destroys part of it.

Ussj Vegeta throws Cell so hard that he takes down the top of a mountain.

And there is more.

Edit:And ssj2 Goku was destroying all the mountains around him as well.

See? Examples! These I love. Absolutely love. Love them more if Piccolo were involved, but even girls like myself can't have everything.


Let's start then anyway. To destroy a mountain from the inside out would be far easier than destroying it from the outside. But this definitely lends to the durability of the DBZ characters through their energy amplification techniques.

And Goku destroyed an island on a dying planet which was entirely unstable.

The shockwave thing I'll ask for some form of proof since I don't remember it.

Nappa didn't destroy a mountain by colliding with it. They were surrounded by foot hills at the most.

And unless Oozaru Gohan had a comparative destructive event, you can't really utilize him for an arguement.


However, those fights were people showing out at nearly peak power levels under strain. Superman's strength level lends him mountain shattering ability at a cruising level.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

i mean buu's puches could break through mountians but when he punched goku, goku just smiled at it. it also happened with hildegarn in movie 12or 13 i forget.... and you say supes can go fighthing hours with someone in his strength class but if thats so, then like i said before goku is the better fighter. just cause superman can lift a planet doest mean that equals a good fighter. plus superman cant dodge all gokus hits and pretty much after awhile goku will predict all supes' moves. why? because supermans fighting ability is far less superior than the people that goku has faced in his time. goku has unlimited moves and techniques which he can switch at anytime, while supes has a few in comparison.remember..Also, goku would know where to hit superman to cause damage. i think this fight is decided based on experience alone and nothing more

Not all of Buu's punches were mountain shattering level. And Buu, especially during that fight, was more or less just playing around with Goku.

I'll just ask politely to not use movies, since they're not considered cannon.

As for Supe's fighting ability? He's hardly a pushover, and his pure durability makes most of Goku's punches on a more useless level. He probably won't even try to dodge most of his punches. A full charging Superman is basically an unstoppable force of physical power.

And while I do agree Goku will be able to predict Supe's moves, I also move to say he won't have to. Goku's reaction time is far superior to Superman's, and will be able to dodge without prediction. Like I said, Superman has low experience in hyperspeed combat.

Goku's moves are actually kind of limited it seems. While he has a few more tricks up his sleeve over Superman, Superman isn't exactly a one trick pony himself.

But this is where Superman's stamina comes in. Goku is basically a low level stamina in comparison. And while Goku CAN fight for hours, they're always in a constant state of decline and exaustion, where Superman hardly feels those effects for a long long time.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Acutally Goku can stay in space for a couple of minutes,Baradock in the manga was in space when he fought Freeza and he was fine.

Upper atmosphere, not pure outerspace. DBZ at least obeys the laws of not being able to talk where there's no air for them to use. (Not sound, just them not talking, like underwater and such.)

However, a few minutes of holding your breath is pretty much nothing to someone who can just live out there.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

and brolly was flying in space destroying meteors and planets. even vegeta was on some type of moon or planet that wasnt earth's witout any space gear on and survived(b4 he turned ssj)

Vegeta could've been on a planet with an atmosphere. Namek would be an example, though he wasn't actually at Namek obviously.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

plus goku would never get stuck in space since he has i.T

That would be fine, if (and we have to assume a blood thirsty Superman and Goku respectively) Superman wasn't ripping him into space as he came back.

Telescopic vision is awesome.

 

[saiyan jedi]

ok but this is vegeta not goku

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

And Vegeta is considered the poor man's Goku.

 

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

so wat kind of power does it take to deflect an energy beam capable of destroying a city or planet with one hand with too much effort. one of the beams could relate to one of supes punches

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

so wat kind of power does it take to deflect an energy beam capable of destroying a city or planet with one hand with too much effort. one of the beams could relate to one of supes punches

See, Superman lacks this ability. Goku and the others use their own stored energy to literally deflect, or hold, other people's energies. Their control over this specific type of energy give them this power.


It's like their energy sensitivity. Chances are Superman wouldn't rank too much over a human since he doesn't literally store the same energy they do.

 

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

See, Superman lacks this ability. Goku and the others use their own stored energy to literally deflect, or hold, other people's energies. Their control over this specific type of energy give them this power.


It's like their energy sensitivity. Chances are Superman wouldn't rank too much over a human since he doesn't literally store the same energy they do.

wat i mean is that they deflect them with their hands and nothing more.. or just guard their face a just take it head on with getting damaged

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

wat i mean is that they deflect them with their hands and nothing more.. or just guard their face a just take it head on with getting damaged

Their energy is charged through them. It's how they actually seem to do everything. Granted physical training is a big thing too. But too often do I see them scratched up from hitting the ground for me to believe otherwise.

 

[OMEGAVEGETTO]

traningin in 450 times gravity for instance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTK4TcYxx3k


without going ssj