Visual Effects of Ghost Rider

[BIGGUN]

yeah..i mentioned that in the official GR thread....
here are some more pics....
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/Yeehaacon/National_Treasure_Cage.html

lookin rather "skeletal" in some of those pics...heh
i would think he would be in some kind of a costume as MSJ has stated that GR would be a combination of CGI and prosthetics. i certainly hope that is the case.....wouldnt look as realistic if they went 100% cgi


EDIT:
here is what MSJ said about how GR will appear...

Will you be using prosthetics or all CGI for Ghost Rider and Mephisto?

It will be a combination of things to bring these characters to life. What’s most important is that we give G.R. weight, even when he’s riding up a skyscraper or along a wall. He can’t feel light, or like CGI, he’s heavy metal. Like the Terminator. And he leaves total devastation and destruction in his path.

 

[FlameHead]

'And he leaves total devastation and destruction in his path.'

I freakin' love that.

I really can't wait to see some images or concepts of actual things they plan to do.

 

[Danalys]

i think they should make a model skull that they can set on fire and then super impose that on whoever's shoulders.

 

[FlameHead]

I have a feeling that it'll be something like that. I figure they'll use tactics like they did for the headless horseman in Sleepy Hollow. I doubt it'll be a model skull or real fire though. As real as that is, it just won't look as real as CGI on screen... I don't think.

 

[Danalys]

cgi flames are one of the hardest things to do. with a life size skulll model you'd get photo realism. it could even be animatronic if you can protect the mechanisems from the flames. they should at least do it to use as reference for CG

 

[Retroman]

How much CG they use is essential for this the Ghost Rider character to come alive.

 

[The Flash]

I think the effects company is going to work thier magic and make GR's flaming skull look as real as possible. There ain't going to be no bogus looking CGI effects. However they do it, I'm sure it's going to look amazing.

 

[DarkKnightJRK]

There's going to be some CGI for GR. Dude's got a frickin' flaming skull for a head for Christ's sake.

Considering the advances on CGI, I think they can do the flames without it looking hokey.

 

[FlameHead]

Agreed. Just think of Balrog. He was awesome... and flamey.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Agreed. Just think of Balrog. He was awesome... and flamey.

yep he was,and fire is the hardest element along with water to do with cgi so these are good signs and the company doing the effects are a quality outfit.

 

[FlameHead]

They'll probably use a lot of practical fire shots as well. Superimposing pre shot images and what not, ya know. Like, the flames left from him riding down the road will possibly be real. I mean, there is no real reason to make that CGI, all the time. That is, of course, if they leave a flaming trail as he rides.

 

[Hunter Rider]

They'll probably use a lot of practical fire shots as well. Superimposing pre shot images and what not, ya know. Like, the flames left from him riding down the road will possibly be real. I mean, there is no real reason to make that CGI, all the time. That is, of course, if they leave a flaming trail as he rides.

yeah no need to waste CGI effects when there not needed,an intelligent use of practical effects is what is needed when the budget isnt massive b/c it leaves the money for those all important WOW shots.I even think it may be possible to do some of the bike stuff without going overboard with cgi,i mean they could use a rig for the riding along wall shots i reckon.

 

[Hunter Rider]

bump

the CGI for blackheart is also going to be important,how do you reckon they should do him?
I'd go for a mix of prosthetics and CGI

 

[BIGGUN]

bump

the CGI for blackheart is also going to be important,how do you reckon they should do him?
I'd go for a mix of prosthetics and CGI

more than likely... i do know he will have to be bigger than GR. maybe they can shoot the scenes like how they did it in LOTR. the ones that involved hobbits and normal humans.
his tail will have to be cgi....if they keep it of course

 

[Hunter Rider]

more than likely... i do know he will have to be bigger than GR. maybe they can shoot the scenes like how they did it in LOTR. the ones that involved hobbits and normal humans.
his tail will have to be cgi....if they keep it of course

I thought the lycan effects in underworld were quite good and while i know blackheart isn't a werewolf he is similar looking to the lycans in UW so that could be a good place to start plus the hellboy prosthetics would be a good example to check out.

 

[FlameHead]

... this is all presuming that Blackheart isn't human, or in human form rather. IF so, he'll not need any special FX. I can't see him being human though. It would work on one level yes, but when you have a flaming headed demon running around catching bad guys, you kinda need something non human for him to face.

 

[Hunter Rider]

... this is all presuming that Blackheart isn't human, or in human form rather. IF so, he'll not need any special FX. I can't see him being human though. It would work on one level yes, but when you have a flaming headed demon running around catching bad guys, you kinda need something non human for him to face.

I agree a physical non human must be GR's opponent at some point in the film to keep the supernatural edge.

 

[BIGGUN]

I can see them having Blackheart using a human form for some or most of the movie. that way he would be able to convince others to follow him....if they go that route of course. also he would attract less attention if he was just a normal joe.....couldnt do that in his demon form.
just have him change for some important dialogue scenes and the fights w/ GR of course

 

[FlameHead]

That's what we'll likely see. Save the demon form for the final battle... sorta like how the first Blade movie worked. Normal Frost for most of movie, then super Frost for final battle. For this we'll have demon Blackheart in form of human for most of movie, then demon form Blackheart for final fight.

As for Mephisto... he's not going to die anyway. He's just the overlord and not beatable by Ghost Rider quite yet. I hope not anyway. It woudln't be right if the devil gets his due in one film.

 

[Samaritan]

This "Nick Cage's Skull" thread reminds me of a thought/concern I recently had while considering the movie. To me, it seems essential that the actor or stunt person wear an actual flickering light on their head during filming. Sound ridiculous? While the flaming head will be cgi, this necessitates that every surface around the Ghost Rider also be artificially lit during the post production of the movie. This works fine for a completely computer generated background, but in a physical setting it would add a lot of work to make it look convincing. Any thoughts?

 

[WarBlade]

It'll be done in digital post. I don't know how they do this in film exactly, but with my dabbling with PhotoShop etc. I can imagine they might do something like oversaturate the lighting a little during filming and then throw the dimmer on everything to get those nicely defined black areas that gave the second series so much of it's character. From there it should be a fairly straight forward process to bring back some fiery glow to certain nearby surfaces.

As for the "light on his head" approach, that would be even worse to try and film. You'll wind up with lens flares happening constantly!

 

[InVictus]

I am quite interested in to how they are going to represent Hellfire.
In the comics(Danny's Ghost) it was a cold bright yellow fire, inextinguible like normal fire (see Zodiak ep.). Even the color of the flame was meaning something "different" (although probably it was also a wanted magistral color scheme:yellow on black contrast was cold, yet powerful, quite similar to Hellboy's red/black).
But i think on screen the flame will need the standard true fire properties(IE heat, color), as show even of the Cannes poster.
It was one of the better things in Goyer's script imho, it was similar to the vision of Ghost i always imagined: a skeleton not engulfed on flames, but "erupting" flames.
Where clothes, chain, metal, bike, all acted as the magma crust, and bones were the source of the flame, like phoshporus. Every time i saw Ghost clothes being torn in the comics i imagined he would "regrow" them as ash reform on the cinder surface.
The only retain of real fire i think would be "wrong" it's the smoke. Smoke means that something physical is burning, while hellfire burns soul, and Ghost's fire is "alive".
Really they shoul make the fire part of the acting: should ghost be really pissed off, i think the flame would be roaring, almost white, with a heat haze making the air waving.
But i think this kind of FX would overcome Nic Cage acting too much.(and maybe resemble too much the torch)

 

[BIGGUN]

Really they shoul make the fire part of the acting: should ghost be really pissed off, i think the flame would be roaring, almost white, with a heat haze making the air waving.

when the film was being developed in 2001 by Goyer and Norrington there was mention of how the flames would represent GR's emotional state at the time. the angrier he would get the flames would get redder or darker in color as well as getting larger. dont know if MSJ plans on keeping that idea but its possible.

 

[ScryerToo]

To be totally honest I am not sure how the Ghost Rider flame effects would be done, but I would hope that it is a combination of animatronics/CGI, as opposed to one or the other because even the best CGI tends to lack "weight", a feeling of substantiality (which makes sense because there really isn't anything there in the first place) and can look really fake (if there's any doubt, look at the multiple Mr. Smith vs. Neo fight from the Matrix Reloaded (or Revolutions. They kinda blur for me. The original Matrix is the only one that stands out). It's good CGI, for a video game, not so good if you're talking about a feature film.

 

[WarBlade]

Lacking weight is not the problem for fire though. With fire the 'fun part' will probably be generating the random nature of it's movement and working out the illumination and shadow play on nearby surfaces. That's assuming the flames get designed to look natural in the first place though, which may not be the case.