Wanda / Scarlet Witch thread

[def28]

I haven't read it in awhile but isn't this basically...

Spoiler

kinda like Avengers Disassembled Wanda?

Where she snapped after remembering her kids, did a bunch of bad stuff to good people and Doc Strange was like.... she's gone. Nobody can save her.

That first psych out with her kids landed pretty well but I feel like there is a piece missing where we see her descent a bit more with the book. Otherwise I thought she was a top tier villain. And one we all care about, which makes things hit differently than other flicks.

How far the character is balanced with her mental stability and good/villainous ways are always a debate. More so now, with a mainstream fanbase. Fans love her and from what Ive seen get mad when she's a villain. Which I'm not sure why. It's fun seeing someone go this far as a villain. We never seen that outside some poor Jean Grey adaptations. This is the fun stuff!!

The film could have transitioned a few things better but I did not like that last ep of WandaVision at all as is. It was a messy last ep that romanticized her struggle being worth more than torturing a town. And then she's reading the Darkhold moments later.

I'm looking forward to where she goes after this, because they can't play this hand again. Regardless, she is easily one of the best Marvel characters on the screen and deserving of her own film at this point. I'd say Olsen is up their with Pffefer's Catwoman now as far as iconic Female comic characters go and pretty much the best for Marvel this gen across the board of their characters.

 

[Weather Witch]

I went to this movie because I really like Wanda, wanted to see more from her in the movies, and LOVED WandaVision. So now I'm really confused why Wanda in this movie just did not work for me.

I genuinly want to watch it again just to figure that out. I know it's not the acting because she did a great job. Guessing it's somewhere in the pacing, writing, and structure of the movie.

 

[Iceman]

Feels like there needed to be something else between the end of Wandavision and the start of this film.

 

[Lip]

Feels like there needed to be something else between the end of Wandavision and the start of this film.

If I'm not wrong this is the first time we have a direct connection between a movie and a show in the MCU. And using this as a case, I don't think it worked. There are inconsistencies between Wanda in WandaVision and her in MoM.

Like you said, it does feel like there's a piece of a puzzle missing.

And to be honest, I'm not sure if this missing part would explain Wanda jumping to fully sacrifice America.

WandaVision did a good job making me empathize and understand why Wanda did that. MoM did not.

 

[Primal Slayer]

While I wouldn't be opposed to more development between the 2....i think this is a case where the audience has enough information to fill in the blanks.

We saw Wanda studying the darkhold.
We know it can corrupt those that use it.
She comes across this spell that gives her a sense of happiness and it ultimately corrupts her to the point where she finds an answer.
Time passes and she feels that she needs this answer to solve her problems.

 

[Lip]

We know it can corrupt those that use it.

I didn't know it would make her stupid too. She could've asked first, at least.

 

[henzINNIT]

I admired the guts this film had to go as far as they did with Wanda. Probably not going to make her biggest fans happy, but I think it was pretty well seeded with all the trauma she had suffered. Olsen was scary, ruthless, but I still felt for her by the end. A great performance and several great sequences.

 

[Arachnerd]

I'm just wondering where she'll go from here, because she did some pretty horrifying stuff in this.

Spoiler

The Illuminati's demise has to mean something in the grand scheme of things, especially since they're gradually building towards Secret Wars.

 

[Another_Fool]

There was an opportunity somewhere to do something more nuanced with Wanda and frankly they should've. I say this with very conflicted feelings because I LOVED about 85% of the things they did with Wanda here but the film could've bothered to be something better and transcend its general MCU simplicity to serve Wanda more.

 

[psylockolussus]

I'm just wondering where she'll go from here, because she did some pretty horrifying stuff in this.

Spoiler

The Illuminati's demise has to mean something in the grand scheme of things, especially since they're gradually building towards Secret Wars.

They are going to redeem especially Elizabeth Olsen just got a new contract. Either a solo movie, solo series or another supporting role in someone's movie.

She could easily have a supporting role in Blade, Ghost Rider and Sam Wilson.

 

[TheVileOne]

While I think Olsen's performance was exceptional, doing this with the character after WandaVision felt wrong and like a mistake to me.

Overall, I'm not happy.

 

[Another_Fool]

While I think Olsen's performance was exceptional, doing this with the character after WandaVision felt wrong and like a mistake to me.

Absolutely agree.

 

[Iceman]

While I think Olsen's performance was exceptional, doing this with the character after WandaVision felt wrong and like a mistake to me.

Seems like this is the majority take on this subject.

 

[Iceman]

They are going to redeem especially Elizabeth Olsen just got a new contract. Either a solo movie, solo series or another supporting role in someone's movie.

She could easily have a supporting role in Blade, Ghost Rider and Sam Wilson.

Oh didn’t realise that. Did they say about how many roles the new contract is for? Good for her anyway.

 

[Lip]

Oh didn’t realise that. Did they say about how many roles the new contract is for? Good for her anyway.

Is a contract extension for 7 years.

Likely, and hopefully, she'll get a solo movie.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

If I'm not wrong this is the first time we have a direct connection between a movie and a show in the MCU. And using this as a case, I don't think it worked. There are inconsistencies between Wanda in WandaVision and her in MoM.

Like you said, it does feel like there's a piece of a puzzle missing.

And to be honest, I'm not sure if this missing part would explain Wanda jumping to fully sacrifice America.

WandaVision did a good job making me empathize and understand why Wanda did that. MoM did not.

The "missing piece" is that she got ahold of what is essentially the MCU's version of the One Ring, and it corrupted her.

 

[Lip]

The "missing piece" is that she got ahold of what is essentially the MCU's version of the One Ring, and it corrupted her.

I understand how they tried to justify her actions.

I still think it was a badly written arc. And inconsistent with what we saw in WandaVision.

I wonder if Jac Schaefer was contacted for this, since this kind of colaboration is not unusual.

 

[Iceman]

Is a contract extension for 7 years.

Likely, and hopefully, she'll get a solo movie.

Oh wow, had no idea and that sounds significant. Will be very glad to see Olsen return but they have a lot of work to do to win back the audience. A solo film might give her time to achieve that actually.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

I understand how they tried to justify her actions.

I still think it was a badly written arc. And inconsistent with what we saw in WandaVision.

I wonder if Jac Schaefer was contacted for this, since this kind of colaboration is not unusual.

How is it inconsistent when the Darkhold is explicitly the reason for her change in behavior? The Darkhold consistently functions this way as we also see it had the same effect on Doctor Strange in other universes.

Is your problem with the fundamental prospect of a powerful magical artifact that has a corruptive influence on the mind? Because that's one of the oldest fantasy tropes in the book.

 

[Lip]

How is it inconsistent when the Darkhold is explicitly the reason for her change in behavior? The Darkhold consistently functions this way as we also see it had the same effect on Doctor Strange in other universes.

Is your problem with the fundamental prospect of a powerful magical artifact that has a corruptive influence on the mind? Because that's one of the oldest fantasy tropes in the book.

Magic can't be an excuse for bad writing.

I understand it conviced you and many other. It didn't convince me at all.

And the whole point, the whole big lesson Wanda learned in WandaVision was letting things go.

I think there were different and better ways to turn her into a villain.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

Magic can't be an excuse for bad writing.

I understand it conviced you and many other. It didn't convince me at all.

Convince you of what? That her mind was corrupted? Is your issue with it that you don't think dark magic...in a universe where dark magic exists...can corrupt someone's mind?

 

[Lip]

Convince you of what? That her mind was corrupted? Is your issue with it that you don't think dark magic...in a universe where dark magic exists...can corrupt someone's mind?

What was the point of WandaVision? Forget about the Scarlet Witch, powers and magic. What was the point of that story for Wanda as a person, as a human being? Because I took that as a story about loss, and Wanda learning how to move on from it, hence that emotional goodbye at the end.

Now that's basically the last time we see Wanda. And then in her very first scene in MoM she is fully determined to sacrifice a child to get hers back. That does not convince me at all. You can't jump from Wanda saying goodbye to her children in one scene to fully sacrificing another to get them back in another. There is a huge, huge, massive gap here that, in my opinion, cannot be simply justified by "It's magic". It felt like flushing down the toilet her entire development in WandaVision.

You used Lord of the Rings as an example, but we can see the ring slowly affecting Frodo.

 

[Another_Fool]

The "missing piece" is that she got ahold of what is essentially the MCU's version of the One Ring, and it corrupted her.

If only it was handled with more nuance like it was in Lord of the Rings then maybe more people would've been on board with how Wanda is dealt with here.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

What was the point of WandaVision? Forget about the Scarlet Witch, powers and magic. What was the point of that story for Wanda as a person, as a human being? Because I took that as a story about loss, and Wanda learning how to move on from it, hence that emotional goodbye at the end.

And then the corruptive power of the Darkhold threw a monkey wrench in all that. These kinds of stories are all about how people deal with the various monkey wrenches thrown in their plans, and how it changes them as a result.

Wanda at the end of WandaVision had not yet been corrupted by the Darkhold. Her journey up until that point is still legitimate, just now she has to deal with the fact that in her journey she hit a pot hole that sent her careening off the side of the road.

Now that's basically the last time we see Wanda. And then in her very first scene in MoM she is fully determined to sacrifice a child to get hers back. That does not convince me at all. You can't jump from Wanda saying goodbye to her children in one scene to fully sacrificing another to get them back in another. There is a huge, huge, massive gap here that, in my opinion, cannot be simply justified by "It's magic". It felt like flushing down the toilet her entire development in WandaVision.

I'm still not sure what you're not convinced about. Is it that you think the human mind cannot be corrupted by external factors? Is it that you simply dislike the fact that it happened to Wanda specifically? Is it that you have a problem with the ambiguity surrounding culpability and personal autonomy that arises in these sorts of situations?

You used Lord of the Rings as an example, but we can see the ring slowly affecting Frodo.

Well Frodo is a hobbit, and hobbits are specifically stated to be more resistant to the effects of the One Ring, that's why Frodo was given the ring in the first place. Wanda is more comparable to if Gandalf or Galadriel had been given the One Ring, which we know would have ended in disaster.

 

[TheVileOne]

To me it's kind of like how Iron Man 3 clunkily handled Tony's PTSD and then Age of Ultron basically ignored the events of Iron Man 3. It felt like in Age of Ultron, nothing in Iron Man 3 actually happened.