Wanda / Scarlet Witch thread

And then the corruptive power of the Darkhold threw a monkey wrench in all that. These kinds of stories are all about how people deal with the various monkey wrenches thrown in their plans, and how it changes them as a result.

Wanda at the end of WandaVision had not yet been corrupted by the Darkhold. Her journey up until that point is still legitimate, just now she has to deal with the fact that in her journey she hit a pot hole that sent her careening off the side of the road.



I'm still not sure what you're not convinced about. Is it that you think the human mind cannot be corrupted by external factors? Is it that you simply dislike the fact that it happened to Wanda specifically? Is it that you have a problem with the ambiguity surrounding culpability and personal autonomy that arises in these sorts of situations?



Well Frodo is a hobbit, and hobbits are specifically stated to be more resistant to the effects of the One Ring, that's why Frodo was given the ring in the first place. Wanda is more comparable to if Gandalf or Galadriel had been given the One Ring, which we know would have ended in disaster.
There was simply no development that took Wanda there. Just because it's magic it doesn't mean there's no need for development.

They took her from A to Z and explained it with magic instead of character development.

And again, you can use magic and character development.
 
There was simply no development that took Wanda there. Just because it's magic it doesn't mean there's no need for development.

They took her from A to Z and explained it with magic instead of character development.

And again, you can use magic and character development.

But it wasn't supposed to be character development, it was a corruptive external force influencing her mind. It's no different than, say, Doc Ock having his mind get ****ed up by the robot arms. Or if I decide to get wasted drinking beer and go run around outside with my pants off.
 
But it wasn't supposed to be character development, it was a corruptive external force influencing her mind. It's no different than, say, Doc Ock having his mind get ****ed up by the robot arms. Or if I decide to get wasted drinking beer and go run around outside with my pants off.
Doc Ock is not a hero, he is a villain.

Despite overcoming the power of the ring, Frodo was corrupted by it. There was a journey that took Frodo there. And that's because Tolkien used both character development and magic.

My problem with Wanda is that there was zero character development that took her from point A in a scene to point Z to another. And they replaced character development with magic.

And in my opinion magic shouldn't exclude the need of character development. That's my problem.
 
The problem is that at the end of WandaVision, we saw Wanda hear the voices of the kids and it sounded like they were crying for help and/or in danger. Then we see them again here, and they are alive in an alternate reality with another Wanda who is their real mom.

They changed it. Where they left things with Wanda is not where they ended up. We also didn't see the corruption of the Darkhold take hold of her.
 
But it wasn't supposed to be character development, it was a corruptive external force influencing her mind. It's no different than, say, Doc Ock having his mind get ****ed up by the robot arms. Or if I decide to get wasted drinking beer and go run around outside with my pants off.

The drunken mind reveals the sober heart. Don't let the laws of the land make you hide who you truly are.
 
The problem is that at the end of WandaVision, we saw Wanda hear the voices of the kids and it sounded like they were crying for help and/or in danger. Then we see them again here, and they are alive in an alternate reality with another Wanda who is their real mom.

They changed it. Where they left things with Wanda is not where they ended up. We also didn't see the corruption of the Darkhold take hold of her.
Yeah, that's the first time there's a direct connection between a show and a movie. I don't think it worked here, which does not mean it will always be like that. But there's certainly room for improvement.
 
So did the Wanda in other multiverses also make her kids out of thin air?
 
Doc Ock is not a hero, he is a villain.

Despite overcoming the power of the ring, Frodo was corrupted by it. There was a journey that took Frodo there. And that's because Tolkien used both character development and magic.

My problem with Wanda is that there was zero character development that took her from point A in a scene to point Z to another. And they replaced character development with magic.

And in my opinion magic shouldn't exclude the need of character development. That's my problem.

In this story, Wanda is a villain as well. It's not about her journey or character development. It's about other characters' development as they deal with Wanda's drunken bender. Wanda will later get development when she deals with the fallout of her actions while under the influence of the Darkhold, but that's not the purpose of this story.
 
The problem is that at the end of WandaVision, we saw Wanda hear the voices of the kids and it sounded like they were crying for help and/or in danger. Then we see them again here, and they are alive in an alternate reality with another Wanda who is their real mom.

They changed it. Where they left things with Wanda is not where they ended up. We also didn't see the corruption of the Darkhold take hold of her.
damn that sounds so confusing.
 
In this story, Wanda is a villain as well. It's not about her journey or character development. It's about other characters' development as they deal with Wanda's drunken bender. Wanda will later get development when she deals with the fallout of her actions while under the influence of the Darkhold, but that's not the purpose of this story.
Wanda being a villain in this particular story is not a reason to neglect her as a character; and it doesn't exclude that she's also a hero we know for quite sometime and she would've been much better served with a proper character development and nuanced arc that explained her going from A to Z.

But we're starting to walk in circles here. I get where you're coming from.

I still think it was an arc that lacked proper attention instead of just using magic to explain it, which to me felt a little lazy.
 
Wanda being a villain in this particular story is not a reason to neglect her as a character; and it doesn't exclude that she's also a hero we know for quite sometime and she would've been much better served with a proper character development and nuanced arc that explained her going from A to Z.

But we're starting to walk in circles here. I get where you're coming from.

I still think it was an arc that lacked proper attention instead of just using magic to explain it, which to me felt a little lazy.

I mean, she will have future stories that develop her character further. This just wasn't her story, it was Doctor Strange's story, and to a lesser extent America Chavez's story, with a corrupted Scarlet Witch as the source of conflict. Wanda's story will be impacted by these events in the future, and the ambiguous level of culpability she had after being corrupted will no doubt be a source of internal crisis going forward, but the story of how she got corrupted was just not supposed to be the result of character development, it's just a bad thing that happened that everyone now has to deal with.
 
I think that is more accurate to say that Wanda TRIED(Really Hard) to be a hero.
She never quite got there.
 
Wanda being a villain in this particular story is not a reason to neglect her as a character; and it doesn't exclude that she's also a hero we know for quite sometime and she would've been much better served with a proper character development and nuanced arc that explained her going from A to Z.

But we're starting to walk in circles here. I get where you're coming from.

I still think it was an arc that lacked proper attention instead of just using magic to explain it, which to me felt a little lazy.

It was definitely lazy.
 
The other Wanda had a husband who was not The Vision. She had her children naturally.
Kind of odd the children look exactly the same though, maybe that is why she barely mentioned Vision. The other her can love someone else even though it has never seemed like 616 Wanda could love anyone besides Vision.
 
I would be much more accepting of this characterization if it was revealed that Mephisto or Cthon was behind manipulating her the whole time for a bigger reason. Leaving out the actual horror characters from a horroresque film is what isn't sitting right with me, coupled with that I see a redemption path a lot harder to swallow without an additional external force other than the Darkhold by itself affecting her. Sure it might be more rewarding down the road, but as it stands right now I don't feel she can be redeemed. I feel like Marvel really dropped the ball on using their own source material here.
 
Loved Wanda’s unstoppable horror element to this. She was like the terminator except more terrifying!
Straight up the structure of the movie reminded me of a Terminator movie. Like Wanda was the T-1000/Bad T-800, America was Sarah/John and Strange was Kyle Reese/Good T-800. And a certain scene with Wanda going on a rampage is straight up the superhero version of the Terminator annihilating everyone in the police station in Terminator 1.
 
Lizzie Olsen, marry me. Evil Horror Wanda awakened the bisexuality. I guess that makes me a sociopath, but I have no regrets.

I assume based on the conversation here that no one actually
thinks she's dead (in earth 616)?
 
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Really, really enjoyed Wanda in this movie. Did not expect her to be so brutally unapologetic and completely unstoppable even to Dr Strange.

More please. She doesn't need any redemption. This is who she is.
 

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