The Dark Knight Was Batman in this movie?

[Odin's Lapdog]

Not really a constant in this film is where we really see that in the time since the last film Batman's presence has attracted attention. He didn't affect the Joker? how when the Joker pretty much admits that he does this because he sees Batman as his equal on the opposite end of his beliefs. He feels they're like the ying and yang and need each other to prove their points. "I'm an agent of chaos" the same way Batman is an agent of justice. Joker has very much been affected by Batman in the film even moreso now that deep down he knows Batman is incorruptible he feels he's more of a challenge.

He affected the mob because they obviously wanted to find a way to get rid of him. You see him checking Maroni a don in what is presumably a nightclube he owns. You see the way he treats even the head of the mob. Maroni feels responsible for helping the Joker he only did so cause he wanted Batman done. So yeah he was affected to. This is in the movie. Batman did affect Gordon cause now Gordon really knows Batman is probably the truest ally he has in that city.

The joker never attempts to corrupt batman (unless you mean by testing his moral code about killing).

The joker says plenty of things in the film, it doesn't mean he didn't completely own bats at every single turn psychologically with bats only managing him from blowing up the boat.

the mob affect was a constant. Look at what happened when batman turned up at bruce wayne's party or when batman turned up at th club to find that mob boss. He had no effect on the surrounding peeps. Thugs still try to fight him, no one is particularly scared to see him there, he lacked presence.

I'll give you gordon but that doesn't happen till the last scene in the film though.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

Something tells me that this incarnation of Batman couldn't care less about whether he got Superman's respect or not.

I don't think bats has ever cared about it. I know the film gave the impression that when the bat signal was on, criminals got scared and stuff but when batman ever turned up in person, he never gave the impression they were scared out of their life to see him, even when he's half way across the world, they act as if it's just anyone else. That primal fear he instills in you, the fact one man can generate that is what makes the charcter a superhero and not a costumed vigilante and its that aura that gains him the respect of peeps like supes (in combination with his other skills).

It's the complete opposite to the way captain america does it but he still bring on his aura. This bats was just kinda thuggish with no aura., cops civilians thugs, supervillains, no one was particularly worried to see him

Funny, I coulda sworn it was Batman that left the clown hanging there for the police to arrest. And I'd say he foiled the Joker's biggest scheme of all. Because the Joker's ultimate plan was to corrupt Harvey and destroy Gotham's faith in its white knight. Even though he succeeded in corrupting Harvey, because of Batman, Harvey's image remains untarnished. I would be interested in hearing why you think Batman does what he does, then. Because to me, Batman fights crime in Gotham because he wants to eliminate the possibility of his tragedy happening to another child. Since the movie is set in his early years, he's still naive enough to believe that can happen. And maybe if Harvey's tragedy hadn't occurred, it would have actually happened. One of my favorite moments in the Animated Series was when Gotham's new D.A. is originally opposed to Batman, but eventually sees that he's necessary. But she tells him, "I'm still going to fight for a Gotham that doesn't need Batman," at which point Batman tells her, "So am I." I don't think he's Batman because he wants to be, so much as he has to be. If Nolan makes a third movie, it will be interesting to see Batman's outlook now that he no longer has any hope for anyone else to be Gotham's savior and knows that he's completely alone.

I saw joker's ultimate plan in revealing to the people of gotham that he is no different from them by putting them in that final life and death situation and seeing that people could be just as cruel and heartless as himself and he failed when push came to shove. He wanted to remove the structure of order and ultimately bring everyone down to his level. Harvey was part of his plan to remove the order but he was only a step in that plan.

It's just that this bruce wayne did not commit his whole life to becoming a vigilante, he decided in his late teens, infact he was convinced in his late teens and a year after he starts he willing to throw it all away and be somewhat entirely optimistic he could change the fundamentals of a city so quickly. His goal seemed to be getting to rachel and saving gotham was his goal to that. Now the choice has been somewhat removed and batman is his fall back plan.

Again he's young and a similar thing happens in mask of the phantasm where he's willing to put it all behind him for a woman but that happens before he falls. I just think once you don the cape, bruce loses his potential salvation of his soul and his obsession and commitment grows and grows and grows.

I mean its not as if ras was relatively fine in comparison to joker.

 

[swapnilgyani]

The Joker may probably have got more screentime, but one feels his presence on the screen much more as his character is more "in you face", as opposed to Batman, who is subtle in his presence - just like he should be

And as has been mentioned here before, the story was about Gotham city and its various characters. Batman's screentime was shortened because other equally important citizens of Gotham (including Bruce Wayne) needed to be on screen as well to tell this story perfectly! Wat was great to see is that the screentime Batman got was quality time - his action was simply top class. He was more "Batman" in TDK than any other depiction of Batman in movies.

I do wish that Batman had a few more action scenes, particularly in the beginning of the movie, where we could see his transformation into a complete pro. And I have a pretty strong hunch that at least one such scene has been edited from the movie in the interest of time - so that this wasn't a three and a half hour marathon (although most of wouldn't mind that )

Hopefully, an extended version (or director's cut...or watever u wanaa call it) of TDK will come out on DVD...drooooooollll

 

[Comics N' Toons]

Better than Returns, the only Batman in that film was in the title.

YUP! amen brother

 

[ultimatefan]

Batman never understood his logic, he just used his phone sonar device to stop him, he never understood any of the joker's motives, that's why alfred had to tell him that story.

It's not like they are at a stalemate where one can't get rid of the other (a true balance), the joker just doesn't want to get rid of bats, he knows his identity, everything about him, he has the complete and total upper hand.

as for the victory, I believe it were the people of gotham who had the greatest victory over the joker by not blowing themselves up on the boats, that was his plan and they caused it to fail. Bats just stopped plan B (no one cares about plan b).

The joker won the rest of his main goals, taking out the mob, corrupting dent, killing the judges, gordon stopped him killing the mayor but he did kill batman and dent's love all in one sweep. The only thing i can say bats stopped were the swat team taking out the hostages in clown masks and the joker detonating the boats at the end. It's hardly a balance.

If the villain has victories, the stakes are much more real and intense. If Batman had stopped all these things from happening, it´d have been the most boring movie in the world. The whole point is to make Joker a seemingly invincinble adversary, that builds up the suspense.

He understood Joker´s method by realizing the hostage situation wasn´t what the police was thinking. If he hadn´t invaded the place and figured out Joker´s twist, the hostages would have been killed, the swat would have been ambushed and Joker would have blown up the ferries. That victory was fundamental. He saved a bunch of lives and caught Joker, preventing him from causing greater harm. And he prevented Harvey´s symbolic strength as hope for Gotham and his prosecutions from falling down by taking the blame for the killings.

 

[ultimatefan]

In Returns he's not convincing against revenge and killing just because he thinks it's the "right thing to do," but because he wanted them to be together. It was a "we were being that, but let's quit so we can run away together."

Now, if for what story is better told on the script, TDK wins.

Which means he didn´t really want to change anything.

 

[hatebox]

Joker never knew batman's identity, FYI.

 

[ultimatefan]

I don't want to seem insulting but while it's not spoonfed to the audience it's still there. The moment Bruce realizes who Selina really is that's the realization. He sees how she has no problem killing Shreck for what he did to her the same way he felt about Napier and has been since then. If the punishment fits the crime lay out the punishment don't think it through ethically. All the symbolism like how they're frolicking together on his couch yet try to conceal their wounds from each other. Lines like

Selina: The law doesn't apply to people like him or us
Bruce: Wrong on both counts

They're both parallels to each other. Selina is what opens Bruce's eyes to what he has become he tries to save himself by going for the normal life living with her growing old with her but it's not meant to be. This is early 90's blockbuster cinema there is no elaboration. Like I said it's not the deepest thing but it's there it's told through visuals which is the simplest form of storytelling. There is more to read into the whole package than in most summer blockbuster's this is why I also appreciate the movie.

He does all his grieving in Batman Forever that's why he's moping all throughout that movie this was the turning point this is when he goes "I may have effed up here". This is why he gives Dick Grayson that speech about killing Two-Face.



I grew up on Burton's work I remember the year when Beetlejuice was the sleeper hit I used to watch Pee-Wee's Big Adventure all the time I could seriously quote that movie. Somewhere after Mars Attacks! though I didn't like his projects except for Big Fish which I consider his best film ever I think everything he's done of late sucks. I prefer TDK to any other Batman movie by far. It's the only one in my top 15 movies of all time. I think BB is pretentious and still don't really enjoy it all the way. I dig the comic book spirit of Burton's movies and think they're awesome films but I prefer Nolan's second to any other including his IMO overrated first.

It´s all good, but not executed in a believable way, IMO. Like I said, I appreciate it as a Burton movie, as a quirky black comedy.

 

[Showtime]

Are you anjow under a different name?

You know, Jow is worse than Jett in some ways...

Jow is a poor, second rate Jett wannabe.

edit: (Technically, I'm ripping on Jow here, not Jett... FYI)

FYI: Enjoy your infraction. Do it again, you can have some time off.

 

[ultimatefan]

Hey everyone, do you think we'll get banned for disagreeing with jett on THIS board?

Oh that's right... He can't live out his little power trip on this board!

Your site SUCKS.

First, that site isn´t mine in any way, shape or form.

Second, it´s you who doesn´t seem particularly capable of dealing with difference of opinion, this is just mindless, pointless bashing.

 

[Eggyman]

Getting back to the actual subject matter of the thread, I think we see Bats more in this than we ever have in another film. Not all are big scenes, but they're scenes that keep him involved and in the forefront of the progressing story.

I thought his screen time was perfect.

 

[ultimatefan]

Getting back to the actual subject matter of the thread, I think we see Bats more in this than we ever have in another film. Not all are big scenes, but they're scenes that keep him involved and in the forefront of the progressing story.

I thought his screen time was perfect.

Yeah, of course his presence is more subtle than that of Joker, due to the nature of the characters, but the whole story is built around his character´s arc.

 

[Eggyman]

Yeah, of course his presence is more subtle than that of Joker, due to the nature of the characters, but the whole story is built around his character´s arc.

I know this

 

[Anita18]

Getting back to the actual subject matter of the thread, I think we see Bats more in this than we ever have in another film. Not all are big scenes, but they're scenes that keep him involved and in the forefront of the progressing story.

I thought his screen time was perfect.

I completely agree. As I was telling a Batfan friend after the pre-release screening, "Everything we've wanted to see Batman do, he does in this movie."

Since so many characters are involved, it actually doesn't feel that ANY of them get a lot of screentime anyway.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I completely agree. As I was telling a Batfan friend after the pre-release screening, "Everything we've wanted to see Batman do, he does in this movie."

Since so many characters are involved, it actually doesn't feel that ANY of them get a lot of screentime anyway.

What is a list of things you personally wanted to see batman do, that he did in this film, Im just curious to know.

 

[Bads316]

have a poo

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

have a poo

What?

 

[Bads316]

sorry

 

[Anita18]

What is a list of things you personally wanted to see batman do, that he did in this film, Im just curious to know.

Personally, it was detective work, daytime work (being Batman while being Bruce Wayne), working with Gordon/the police, and behind-the-scenes work with his missions.

Someone here also wanted to see Batman do his thing in a nightclub, and heck, we got that too! And lots of people here also mentioned white lenses in the past, and I was tickled that they put that in as well.

But mostly, it was his sacrifice in the end. For me, the reason why I find Batman so fascinating is not because I could be Batman or anything like that, but because here is a man so wealthy and well-known, he could have anything his heart desired, and he gives all of that up to protect the people of his city. It was always how I've seen the character.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Personally, it was detective work, daytime work (being Batman while being Bruce Wayne), working with Gordon/the police, and behind-the-scenes work with his missions.

Someone here also wanted to see Batman do his thing in a nightclub, and heck, we got that too! And lots of people here also mentioned white lenses in the past, and I was tickled that they put that in as well.

But mostly, it was his sacrifice in the end. For me, the reason why I find Batman so fascinating is not because I could be Batman or anything like that, but because here is a man so wealthy and well-known, he could have anything his heart desired, and he gives all of that up to protect the people of his city. It was always how I've seen the character.

Thanks for your explanation Anita, I agree with you in every way possible!

 

[Anita18]

Thanks for your explanation Anita, I agree with you in every way possible!

Psh. Boring.

 

[db85usa]

It really did not feel like if Batman was in this film. His character seemed to just pop up at times. Who felt that?

When I walked out of the theater, I kind of felt the same way. It was an amazing film, great performances, the perfect and ultimate villain, thunderous music, quality action sequences, the film had it all.

The only thing missing to me was there was not enough Batman. They really did put a lot more emphasis on the surrounding characters, which is a good thing. My only complaint was I did not see enough Batman kicking ass, taking names, etc. Check out my review @ IMDB for the review I wrote after seeing the film lol

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468569/usercomments-777

 

[TheDarkKnight08]

Personally, it was detective work, daytime work (being Batman while being Bruce Wayne), working with Gordon/the police, and behind-the-scenes work with his missions.

Someone here also wanted to see Batman do his thing in a nightclub, and heck, we got that too! And lots of people here also mentioned white lenses in the past, and I was tickled that they put that in as well.

But mostly, it was his sacrifice in the end. For me, the reason why I find Batman so fascinating is not because I could be Batman or anything like that, but because here is a man so wealthy and well-known, he could have anything his heart desired, and he gives all of that up to protect the people of his city. It was always how I've seen the character.[/quote]

I agree.

 

[ultimatefan]

Personally, it was detective work, daytime work (being Batman while being Bruce Wayne), working with Gordon/the police, and behind-the-scenes work with his missions.

Someone here also wanted to see Batman do his thing in a nightclub, and heck, we got that too! And lots of people here also mentioned white lenses in the past, and I was tickled that they put that in as well.

But mostly, it was his sacrifice in the end. For me, the reason why I find Batman so fascinating is not because I could be Batman or anything like that, but because here is a man so wealthy and well-known, he could have anything his heart desired, and he gives all of that up to protect the people of his city. It was always how I've seen the character.

To me that was the scene that cemented this as truly a Batman story at its core, everything was built around that moment, and it was also the biggest "God, I can´t believe they did that!" moment in the movie, even outstaging Joker´s twists. And also one of the greatest moments of heroic self-sacrifice on film in recent years.

 

[Motown Marvel]

the batman character in TDK definitely felt more sidelined and on auto pilot. like, with all the focus and effort they put into making the joker awesome, they were spent when it came time to focus on batman and give his character his due effort.