Watching X2 again, I could cry!

[Seen]

No I haven't.
But I do completely agree that Rogue was becoming more confident in X2, and being set up to actually learn to accept her powers, and her place as a mutant.

And her arc in X-Men: The Last Stand was actually pretty brilliant with her contemplating the cure... but when she was actually cured, her arc was totally ruined.

Knowing that both versions of the scene were filmed, everytime I watch the movie, and the scene of Bobby going into Rogue's room comes on, I'm always hping that somehow the non-cured version will show up. And it doesn't. And I feel sad.

Yea, I have that version on the DVD... but because it's not in the theatrical version, it's not canon, and it doesn't count.

What they did to Rogue hurts me as an X-Men fan, and I'm not even a Rogue fan at all really.

But because I agree that they totally butchered one aspect of a character doesn't mean I've changed my attitude.

Agreed. Well said.

 

[gambitfire]

I couldn't even see Kitty as prominent because of how small the whole thing was in the span of the movie, not to mention it came out of left field.

 

[chaseter]

That's a good point...and that is why the cure storyline is so controversial. It suddenly introduces the possibility of people being able to change, or being forced to change.

I too would have preferred her NOT to take the cure... but.....I can still argue for why she might have done it. The whole situation changed in X3 with Kitty becoming prominent, which created tensions in the relationship.

Agreed...that is what makes the Rogue character so good. A movie where every single mutant was proud and all powerful would be stupid. Singer did a good job at setting up an insecure Rogue to show that not all mutants are happy with their powers. As Beast said, is it cowardice to want to fit in? I don't think it is. If you want to take a pill, have surgery, work out, etc...to change who you are into who you want to be...go for it. All Rogue wanted to do was be with Bobby. To do so, she had to make a choice, she had to be cured.

 

[gambitfire]

Agreed...that is what makes the Rogue character so good. A movie where every single mutant was proud and all powerful would be stupid. Singer did a good job at setting up an insecure Rogue to show that not all mutants are happy with their powers. As Beast said, is it cowardice to want to fit in? I don't think it is. If you want to take a pill, have surgery, work out, etc...to change who you are into who you want to be...go for it. All Rogue wanted to do was be with Bobby. To do so, she had to make a choice, she had to be cured.

All powerful yes, proud no. IMO

That's like saying a movie where all the black, latin, jewish, gay, lesbian, character where proud of who they are is stupid.

Sure you want to see some who deal with issues and we did, but in the end It just wasn't the way to go especially with an (ILL SAY IT AGAIN) already established character.

Rogue wanted to be with bobby that's ok. But how 2 sided does that message come across....she did it for a boy?

Atleast if she hadn't done it, it still doesn't send the mix message.

 

[chaseter]

All powerful yes, proud no. IMO

That's like saying a movie where all the black, latin, jewish, gay, lesbian, character where proud of who they are is stupid.

Sure you want to see some who deal with issues and we did, but in the end It just wasn't the way to go especially with an (ILL SAY IT AGAIN) already established character.

Rogue wanted to be with bobby that's ok. But how 2 sided does that message come across....she did it for a boy?

Atleast if she hadn't done it, it still doesn't send the mix message.

We are just rabid fans that want to see her flying around and beating the ***** out of bad guys. Wolverine was the star so that Rogue would never happen. She was weak in X1 and in X2 sure she did get stronger, I will admit that...but she wasn't the all powerful goddess she was in the comics. Had she had more than one chance or another chance at a large scale to save people...then having her take the cure in X3 would be stupid. She is just a teenager with some serious issues. If she thinks what she has is a problem and that a shot can let her get close to her boyfriend, then so be it. I also loved in X3 how she referred to herself as Marie. I liked that scene...it was also a good Wolverine scene...not trying to be a father figure or a leader. Now she can get it on with Bobby...who is going to bash Rogue for that?

 

[gambitfire]

We are just rabid fans that want to see her flying around and beating the ***** out of bad guys. Wolverine was the star so that Rogue would never happen. She was weak in X1 and in X2 sure she did get stronger, I will admit that...but she wasn't the all powerful goddess she was in the comics. Had she had more than one chance or another chance at a large scale to save people...then having her take the cure in X3 would be stupid. She is just a teenager with some serious issues. If she thinks what she has is a problem and that a shot can let her get close to her boyfriend, then so be it. I also loved in X3 how she referred to herself as Marie. I liked that scene...it was also a good Wolverine scene...not trying to be a father figure or a leader. Now she can get it on with Bobby...who is going to bash Rogue for that?

I think i would of lived is she didn't fly.

I don't think that because she was not as strong and confident as some claim she wasn't (IMO she was) that she should be cured. Oh and no one is going to bash her for getting it on with bobby except hmm i dunno i guess bobby. But really how is that a good thing. Sex is the giant plus you're arguing here. So in the end that's all you wanted for the girl to get laid. Sex is great and all but it's not life..............well it's for life but there is more too life.

I don't see how anyone can say Singer would of cured her, SINGER WOULDN'T EVEN HAVE DONE THE STUPID CURE STORY.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

That's like saying a movie where all the black, latin, jewish, gay, lesbian, character where proud of who they are is stupid.

Despite the social commentary, being Black, Latin, Jewish, or gay, doesn't keep you from being physically intimate with people because you'll kill them if you are.

 

[gambitfire]

She wasn't at her strongest point at the end of X2 so for all we know Singer would of further developed her in X3. Who knows by the end of his X3 she would of been accepting of who she was and tougher and stronger, but i wouldn't expect her to be really happy with her power. That is one of the most interesting things of that character, her struggle, and for her to just give it up that easily, is not staying true to the character that is Rogue.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I think i would of lived is she didn't fly.

I don't think that because she was not as strong and confident as some claim she wasn't (IMO she was) that she should be cured. Oh and no one is going to bash her for getting it on with bobby except hmm i dunno i guess bobby. But really how is that a good thing. Sex is the giant plus you're arguing here. So in the end that's all you wanted for the girl to get laid. Sex is great and all but it's not life..............well it's for life but there is more too life.

I don't see how anyone can say Singer would of cured her, SINGER WOULDN'T EVEN HAVE DONE THE STUPID CURE STORY.

Sex is what you make it.

It can be seen as just trying to get some, and all of that.

Or it can also be seen as the ultimate expression of love, when 2 people share themselves with each other.

Sex, kissing, all of that is tainted by TV. Because we see people out there kissing and having sex with each other all the time, and it seems meaningless.

But for kisses, and sex, and physical intimacy that actually means something, to never be able to experience that in your life, that is a major part of life that you're missing out on. A very important, and meaningful part of life. Physical expression of love.

I know that's something I don't wanna live without.

 

[gambitfire]

Despite the social commentary, being Black, Latin, Jewish, or gay, doesn't keep you from being physically intimate with people because you'll kill them if you are.

No it doesn't didn't say it would. But Chaseter didn't state it as so.

Oh but being any of these things does mean ,besides being descriminated, Being in danger to hate crimes and even killed by others in so many parts of the world even today.

and if you where gay not too long ago there was this thing called AIDS (and still is) maybe you heard of it, it did somehow keep them from ppl they loved. The only difference here is that for Rogue it can be viewed as a gift, For any one who has AIDS unfortunatley it brings no good to them.

 

[gambitfire]

On this last note because i'm going out (It's Freaking Friday COME ON!!)

Rogue is my second favorite X-Men, her powers are tragic, dangerous, and deadly. Too see something good come out of something bad, is what makes it great and the way she so many times has managed to pull through is why i admire this character so much. So whenever i get into debating Rogue almost take it personal. I wish Rogue can be cured but she's a symbol of something much bigger and her not being cured could benefit so many others, and because of that i would prefer she not be cured, if it was me i actually would prefer i would not be cured, i've been in a similar situation to make a hard choice where it was either good for me or good for a family member and i rather my cousing be benefited.

i normally don't get personal about characers(maybe Gambit and Batman ), but when it's someone like Rogue, i can't help but do so.


This was a Cheese factor 10 post, but i'm being serious.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Oh but being any of these things does mean ,besides being descriminated, Being in danger to hate crimes and even killed by others in so many parts of the world even today.

But being a minority doesn't automatically mean that.

And I'm sure there'd be somebody out there who wouldn't mind changing themselves to avoid that.

and if you where gay not too long ago there was this thing called AIDS (and still is) maybe you heard of it, it did somehow keep them from ppl they loved. The only difference here is that for Rogue it can be viewed as a gift, For any one who has AIDS unfortunatley it brings no good to them.

But, gay people don't automatically have AIDS. So they don't automatically get it by having sex, or automatically give it to others by having sex.

Rogue WILL kill somebody she has sex with... she put her first boyfriend into a 2 week coma after a peck on the lips.

And people who do have AIDS, who would give it, or get it, definatley DO want to be cured of it...

 

[gambitfire]

Sex is what you make it.

It can be seen as just trying to get some, and all of that.

Or it can also be seen as the ultimate expression of love, when 2 people share themselves with each other.

Sex, kissing, all of that is tainted by TV. Because we see people out there kissing and having sex with each other all the time, and it seems meaningless.

But for kisses, and sex, and physical intimacy that actually means something, to never be able to experience that in your life, that is a major part of life that you're missing out on. A very important, and meaningful part of life. Physical expression of love.

I know that's something I don't wanna live without.

That's a good point.

but that's not how Chaseter was putting it.

So would you like to tell all this to a nun or Priest or a Monk?



Because they have this crazy belief that they are doing good in the world.

Anyways if it get's boring in Miami tonight (Considerng everything has been done and played out ) then i'll be on later tonight. Till then adios to whoever put up with my rant.

 

[chaseter]

No it doesn't didn't say it would. But Chaseter didn't state it as so.

Oh but being any of these things does mean ,besides being descriminated, Being in danger to hate crimes and even killed by others in so many parts of the world even today.

and if you where gay not too long ago there was this thing called AIDS (and still is) maybe you heard of it, it did somehow keep them from ppl they loved. The only difference here is that for Rogue it can be viewed as a gift, For any one who has AIDS unfortunatley it brings no good to them.

If you can't read between the lines then I am sorry...I try to keep my posts short and sweet. I expand only when needed. But I agree with Nell, being black, lating, jewish, etc...does not kill people, I meant that Rogue's power, not ethnicity is her hendrance. Being a homosexual does not mean you automatically get AIDS...straight people get it too...that was an extremely wrong comment on your part. My morality does not agree with that lifestyle but you sound like those radical Christian fundamentalists that say if your gay you will get AIDS, die, and rot in hell.

 

[gambitfire]

But being a minority doesn't automatically mean that.

And I'm sure there'd be somebody out there who wouldn't mind changing themselves to avoid that.

Im sorry i can't leave letting you have last remarks that are obvius things that i didn't overlook but simply didnt' mention because i felt they where obvious.

On that note I know this, im just expressing the negativity too it.

But, gay people don't automatically have AIDS. So they don't automatically get it by having sex, or automatically give it to others by having sex.

Freaking Duh! it's an example.

What im trying to say is Rogue one character represents so many different things in different ways.

Rogue WILL kill somebody she has sex with... she put her first boyfriend into a 2 week coma after a peck on the lips.

You do know it's never been establishe that she can't control her powers?
I think she would lose her appeal as a character if she does, but the idea is still in the air.

Oh and this is a comic book so yea it goes into some pretty extremes, which is why it shouldn't take a decision like the one made in X3, so vaguely.

OH AND WHO'S SIDE OR YOU ON?
STOP COUNTERING ME WITH OBVIOUS REMARKS.

And people who do have AIDS, who would give it, or get it, definatley DO want to be cured of it...

i know, that why i said that to atleast Rogue it's a gift. which is why i wouldn't expect her to be cured so quickly. Read my post more carefully will'ya you're frustrating me over here.

 

[gambitfire]

If you can't read between the lines then I am sorry...I try to keep my posts short and sweet. I expand only when needed. But I agree with Nell, being black, lating, jewish, etc...does not kill people, I meant that Rogue's power, not ethnicity is her hendrance. Being a homosexual does not mean you automatically get AIDS...straight people get it too...that was an extremely wrong comment on your part. My morality does not agree with that lifestyle but you sound like those radical Christian fundamentalists that say if your gay you will get AIDS, die, and rot in hell.

No wonder you're like X3 your widely open for interpretation, so there is no actually story told.

Short and sweet? more like without meaning and sour.

Now your just stating things i already explained.

OMG IM INSULTED YOU'RE ARGUMENT TOWARDS THE AIDS ISSUE I BROUGHT UP IS SERIOUSLY INSULTING WHY MUST YOU EVEN SAY THAT?
DO YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE I DON'T KNOW THAT?



AND I REALLY DON'T APPRECIAT YOU'RE LAST LINE YOU JERK!! I'M NOT CHRISTIAN, I AM A NON PRACTICING CATHOLIC AND I HAVE ONE GAY RELATIVE ONE LESBIAN RELATIVE AND ONE OLD FRIEND WHO'S GAY!!

So how about you read in between the lines before you judge me.

 

[gambitfire]

But during the AIDS epidemic it was assumed that if you where Gay you automatically had it.

BUT ONCE MORE I'M NOT SAYING THAT AND I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT YOU WOULD ACTUALLY ACCUSE ME OF DOING SO.

That's so messed up why would i say such a horrible thing.

 

[chaseter]

That's a good point.

but that's not how Chaseter was putting it.

So would you like to tell all this to a nun or Priest or a Monk?



Because they have this crazy belief that they are doing good in the world.

Anyways if it get's boring in Miami tonight (Considerng everything has been done and played out ) then i'll be on later tonight. Till then adios to whoever put up with my rant.

Ok...Nell just restated what I said...in different words...but whatever. I seriously do not know how priests and nuns get by with that. For all we know they have big orgies...who is to say they don't? But then again that is where you here a lot of stories of child molestation and rape and conspiracies from abstinent individuals in the clergy. Sex is one of our most innate desires...it is used for pleasure and procreation. It is a neccessity for our species to survive. It even says in the Bible to "go and be fruitful"...aka have the sex and maka da babies. So I don't understand their thought process on that issue in the Bible...

 

[gambitfire]

Now i have to go my friend is screaming at me, who btw not that is matters but she's bi.

But i know i wasn't specific on what i was saying but too be attacked was not very nice, considerin i'm an X-men fan i would expect better of many of you, so i would expect you to expect the same of me. I would never say such horrible things. I was mereley explaining all the things Rogue has represented, But i guess all of you are so quick to feel right that you're willing to attack any flaw on anyone your countering against.

I have to go so talk to everyone later.

 

[chaseter]

No wonder you're like X3 your widely open for interpretation, so there is no actually story told.

Short and sweet? more like without meaning and sour.

Now your just stating things i already explained.

OMG IM INSULTED YOU'RE ARGUMENT TOWARDS THE AIDS ISSUE I BROUGHT UP IS SERIOUSLY INSULTING WHY MUST YOU EVEN SAY THAT?
DO YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE I DON'T KNOW THAT?



AND I REALLY DON'T APPRECIAT YOU'RE LAST LINE YOU JERK!! I'M NOT CHRISTIAN, I AM A NON PRACTICING CATHOLIC AND I HAVE ONE GAY RELATIVE ONE LESBIAN RELATIVE AND ONE OLD FRIEND WHO'S GAY!!

So how about you read in between the lines before you judge me.

Welcome to my world...you could not read between the lines from my posts so I extended you the same courtesy. I don't know your moral fiber or your perogatives for saying such things. Your post was horribly written and it made you sound so.

 

[chaseter]

Now i have to go my friend is screaming at me, who btw not that is matters but she's bi.

But i know i wasn't specific on what i was saying but too be attacked was not very nice, considerin i'm an X-men fan i would expect better of many of you, so i would expect you to expect the same of me. I would never say such horrible things. I was mereley explaining all the things Rogue has represented, But i guess all of you are so quick to feel right that you're willing to attack any flaw on anyone your countering against.

I have to go so talk to everyone later.

I am not trying to start a war with you...I think you are one of the last intelligent posters on this board. You made me feel like what I was saying made no sense but what Nell said was crystal clear...so I interpreted your post the same exact way. I don't know you personally and in the community threads, there are some wacko fundamentalists running around. I am a Christian but I see things from all aspects...not just black and white. And I too have gay family members...it changes how you initially think of them..although he fits every stereotype ever made for that culture.

 

[gambitfire]

Sorry i just figured because we are all X-Men fans we would not be pulling out the you're discriminating card it would be very hypocritical. Then again like you said every place has its couple of wackos.

Over all my point was that Rogue represents so much which is why i was dissapointed when she was cured. Yea i can totally see why she would want to be cured, but i can also see why she wouldn't and too me that outweighs the other.

In the end it's not just because how i feel about it but because having her cured does not stay true to the source.

Sorry for the misuderstanding.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

What i meant was on the last few pages, you usualy put up a fight and an argument, for you to agree to a user's post totaly knocked me off guard

Well, it's hard for me to argue when I completely agree with what that poster had to say

Despite my adamant stance towards my feelings of X-Men: The Last Stand, and despite the pretty hostile arguements that have erupted between myself and posters like LastSunrise1981 and bosef in the past, there are still many things that I agree with them on regarding this film.

The difference is, despite having many of the same complaints they do, those complaints didn't impact this movie as badly for me as it did for them.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

funny how all my favorite characters got the end of the stick in these movies. Scott, Storm, Gambit and Rogue: none had their justice. I should have chosen Wolverine, Jean and Professor to be my favorites although Famke Janssen made me start to love Jean...

 

[La_She-Beast]

^I could say more or less the same...

In the comics:
The original he has flesh colour and sounds like a jerk, the same with the Avengers period.
X-Factor: Hardly does a friggin' thing. And still sounds like a jerk.
New X-Men & Astonishing X-Men: He's dialogues are awesome, but he has... haha! a cat nose.
Ultimate: He's dead.
Movie Beast: Great performance and costume/suit, but any depth on his feelings? No siree.

Will I ever get my Beast? The Beast I want?