Were the deaths in X3 really so awful?

[X-Maniac]

I'm still slightly mystified at some of the extreme reaction to the deaths and character fates in X3.

The teaser trailer features Xavier's voiceover which clearly states 'great sacrifices will be made' as a flower is laid on a gravestone at a funeral, and the movie is called The Last Stand - which means a decisive battle with no going back...

So, armed with all that information, why were people so angry about the deaths of Jean, Cyclops and Xavier and the curing of Mystique? We knew there would be sacrifices and a funeral (not to mention the leaked script told us even more)

I can understand the concerns over Rogue taking the cure, and I share them to a great extent, though her situation is debatable. I can even understand, and empathise with, the outcry over the removal of Cyclops.

But why the outcry over the others? Did people expect a 'happy ever after' ending from a movie promising sacrifices, a funeral and a last stand?

Discuss....

 

[Banshee]

Xaviers death was fine, 'm even fine with most of the other things. The reason Cyclops death just straight up pisses me off is because he was sorely underused. Cyclops is the x-men as far as I'm concerned, he deserved to be treated well more so than any other x-man. But they killed him off cause they didn't know what to do with him.

 

[Phoenix_Flare]

I think people are mad because The Last Stand was a cop-out by Fox, if Singer would've stayed we would have good Phoenix, and more character development for Cyclops and Jean and then got Dark Phoenix

also the Dark Phoenix plot is love story as well as a inner struggle with one human being having to much power, so the death(s) of Jean and Prof. X makes ense, but I think their pyshic battle should've been @ the end ala the comics.

Scott's death was pointless becuase it didn't contribute to the story yet...

 

[BMM]

Just because people potentially knew about them before hand doesn't make their execution suck any less, especially in a movie that obviously wasn't a "last stand" (as everything was left open in the last 5 minutes of an incredibly corny ending).

 

[danoyse]

Cyclops had a terrible death scene. He's not my favorite character, but he deserved better than to be tossed away the way he was in X3.

Knowing it going in is one thing, seeing characters get wasted like that only makes bad news even worse.

 

[Theweepeople]

I spent a whole year discussing why the deaths are still awful. There's no reason why I should go into another long diatribe about why some of the deaths were either perplexing(Cyclops), worthless(Jean), or completely pointless(Xavier). Everyone knows where I stand on these issues and why I have these strong opinions.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

my basic concern with it is basically, it goes against the x-men mythos.

okay, okay... so -every- character dies at some point, and usually comes back.

but really, if you look at character arcs, there are only a few characters where death is part of the arc. cyclops, and xavier, aren't.

jean has death in her character arc. it's part of what her character is - she sacrifices herself, to be reborn as the phoenix, and then in the end, is killed again when she realizes she would rather die human than to live as a god.

simply put, going to x-men mythos, cyclops, xavier, they AREN'T supposed to die.

i don't have a problem with jean dying, because jean sacrificing herself is part of the phoenix story arc.

but i do have a problem with cyclops and xavier dying, because they aren't supposed to.

you wouldn't kill aragorn in lord of the rings.

i just never got the need to kill off characters in "the last stand". okay, there are other ways to show struggle and sacrifice, than to go against the lore and kill off characters who aren't supposed to die. that's why i have a problem with it.

like i said, i know - characters die in the comics all the time. and then they come back. because they aren't really "dead". i just don't really consider some shock value, change of pace, non-permanent deaths to really be indicative of a characters story arc when being adapted into something like a movie that's a bit more limited than an ongoing comic book. something like jean's death? yes. because that's a definative part of her character's journey. cyclops? xavier? no. and that's why i have a problem with it.

 

[Abaddon]

Cyclops was sacrificed as part of Jean's arc. Same with Xavier.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Cyclops was sacrificed as part of Jean's arc. Same with Xavier.

wasn't cyclops only -thought- to be dead, not actually dead? because he was the one who came back in the end and brought jean "back"?

and xavier was defeated by jean, but never killed?

 

[MaskedManJRK]

Xaviers death was fine, 'm even fine with most of the other things. The reason Cyclops death just straight up pisses me off is because he was sorely underused. Cyclops is the x-men as far as I'm concerned, he deserved to be treated well more so than any other x-man. But they killed him off cause they didn't know what to do with him.

Huh. I remember hearing they changed it because they were pissed that he was also going to be in Superman Returns.

 

[Abaddon]

wasn't cyclops only -thought- to be dead, not actually dead? because he was the one who came back in the end and brought jean "back"?

and xavier was defeated by jean, but never killed?

are you referring to the Dark Phoenix Saga?

In DPS, it was never suggested that Cyclops died. Jean didn't kill any of them.

Basically it went something like:

-Hellfire Club/Mastermind mess with Jean's head
-Jean eventually joins them as the Black Queen and believes herself to be Mastermind's wife
-The team is captured by the Club.
-Jean snaps out of it due to her rapport with Cyclops.
-They fightthe HC, the X-Men win, yadayadayada
-Jean goes Dark Phoenix on the plane ride home and attacks and defeats the X-Men
-Phoenix goes to Asparagus people galaxy and consumes the sun
-Jean returns and goes to her parents house. Her parents are sorta freaked out and she threatens them
-The X-Men show up and she's all like ":I already kicked your asses. What makes you think I can't kill you?"
Cyclops is all, "pfft, bull****. if you wanted to kill us you'd do it. come on kill me."
-Phoenix hesitates, and ends up fighting Xavier.
-Xavier wins and Dark Phoenix is suppressed.
-The Shi'ar teleport them away and they wanna kill again cause she's dangerous yadayada
-X-Men square off against the Imperial Guard and lose.
-Jean Phoenixes out briefly.
-blahblahyadayada Jean and Scott are in a warehouse where theres a weapon and she's like "I can't live my whole my life suppressing the Phoenix. Latah." and she kills herself with the machine. Scott realizes she planned to kill herself from the start of the fight.

 

[BMM]

-Phoenix goes to Asparagus people galaxy and consumes the sun

Haha. So true.

 

[X-Maniac]

So, did people not want any deaths at all?

Or was it the number of deaths? Or the way the deaths were handled?

Or do you object entirely to the concept of a 'last stand' with sacrifices?

If the X-Men faced a 'last stand' who should die? No-one? Anyone? Random mutants we don't know or care about?

 

[X-Maniac]

I spent a whole year discussing why the deaths are still awful. There's no reason why I should go into another long diatribe about why some of the deaths were either perplexing(Cyclops), worthless(Jean), or completely pointless(Xavier). Everyone knows where I stand on these issues and why I have these strong opinions.

I appreciate your brevity! But do you think a movie about the Dark Phoenix Saga and Magneto's 'war' should involve any deaths? Should Jean have instead been cured? Or should it have played out as in the comics?

I'm interested as much in what people wanted to happen as much as in their opinion of what actually did happen.

 

[November Rain]

it's not the deaths, it's the way they were handled with little or no care...

The same way that cyclops potentially dies before xavier yet no one holds a funeral for him

heck jean dies TWICE before any recognition of his death is made

they were just executed badly, especially since xavier brought death to himself and wolverine decided to not attempt to cure jean but instead kill her directly.

poor scenes that if handled slighltly differently would have been fine but that's how i feel about the whole film to be honest. A lil more care and it could have been amazing.

 

[LexCorp]

I'm still slightly mystified at some of the extreme reaction to the deaths and character fates in X3.

The teaser trailer features Xavier's voiceover which clearly states 'great sacrifices will be made' as a flower is laid on a gravestone at a funeral, and the movie is called The Last Stand - which means a decisive battle with no going back...

So, armed with all that information, why were people so angry about the deaths of Jean, Cyclops and Xavier and the curing of Mystique? We knew there would be sacrifices and a funeral (not to mention the leaked script told us even more)

I can understand the concerns over Rogue taking the cure, and I share them to a great extent, though her situation is debatable. I can even understand, and empathise with, the outcry over the removal of Cyclops.

But why the outcry over the others? Did people expect a 'happy ever after' ending from a movie promising sacrifices, a funeral and a last stand?

Discuss....

Did I think there would be a happy ending, of course not. But the death of Cyclops was just plain lazy in my eyes. They honestly could not think of a better thing to do with the character? I mean they gloss over the death as well. He gets a gravestone...big whoop. Way to treat a main character.

 

[Abaddon]

it's not the deaths, it's the way they were handled with little or no care...

The same way that cyclops potentially dies before xavier yet no one holds a funeral for him

heck jean dies TWICE before any recognition of his death is made

they were just executed badly, especially since xavier brought death to himself and wolverine decided to not attempt to cure jean but instead kill her directly.

poor scenes that if handled slighltly differently would have been fine but that's how i feel about the whole film to be honest. A lil more care and it could have been amazing.

To be fair they weren't even sure he was dead until Jean freaked out in the infirmary, and by then they had other things to deal with.

 

[LexCorp]

To be fair they weren't even sure he was dead until Jean freaked out in the infirmary, and by then they had other things to deal with.

Even so I do not find that a great excuse.

 

[X-Maniac]

If there are going to be deaths in the Dark Phoenix adaptation, then Cyclops and Xavier are the obvious choices. Cyclops' death wasn't shown in an effort to create suspense and mystery and not to reveal the extent of Dark Phoenix's destructive power at an early stage.

I'd rather Cyclops' death hadn't seemed so dismissive... but it does, however, leave fans with a crumb of comfort that he could come back.

 

[LexCorp]

If there are going to be deaths in the Dark Phoenix adaptation, then Cyclops and Xavier are the obvious choices. Cyclops' death wasn't shown in an effort to create suspense and mystery and not to reveal the extent of Dark Phoenix's destructive power at an early stage.

I'd rather Cyclops' death hadn't seemed so dismissive... but it does, however, leave fans with a crumb of comfort that he could come back.

Indeed like November Rain said, the issue for me too is not who dies but how.

 

[TKing]

It was a necessity for Jean to die (obviously, it's part of the Phoenix mythos). And I thought the "death" of Xavier provided a very emotional, critical point in her arc -- in fact, I think I remember making a thread about the "best scenes in the trilogy". The Xavier v Phoenix sequence came near the top, if not the very top.

Cyclops, however, was poorly underused and thrown away... for no real reason. Was it too complicated for the writers to keep him in the plot? Was it too difficult to intertwine him into Jean's downfall into the Dark Phoenix? His death was a disappointment, the lack of reaction from the team afterwards was painful and overall, the treatment Cyclops received during the entire trilogy was an embarrassment.

 

[November Rain]

To be fair they weren't even sure he was dead until Jean freaked out in the infirmary, and by then they had other things to deal with.

They don't ever find out that he's dead, it's wolverine that starts going off on a crazy rant about how she killed him and she didn't confirm or deny it.

There is no excuse for the lack of behaviour for xavier.

at the very least hold a memorium for scott and xavier at the same time.

I won't even bring up the fact jean had no memorial after x2. These are like xavier's first students and he doesn't really show much emotion for them.

 

[LexCorp]

They ditched the deaths in favour of teen drama moments....

Iceman and Rouges love story...******ed.

Rouges in general in this film was ******ed too. Colossus was also under used. Dude had what one line!

 

[Hugh'sMrs]

To be fair they weren't even sure he was dead until Jean freaked out in the infirmary, and by then they had other things to deal with.

But they found the time to coordinate a funeral for Xavier. If there was time to commission a memorial stone for Charles, they could've had a simple marker made for Scott.

It did seem as if Scott's non-entity status was more a result of Fox being ticked at Marsden than it was simply bad storytelling by Kinberg and Penn.

 

[xmenfilesfan05]

But they found the time to coordinate a funeral for Xavier. If there was time to commission a memorial stone for Charles, they could've had a simple marker made for Scott.

It did seem as if Scott's non-entity status was more a result of Fox being ticked at Marsden than it was simply bad storytelling by Kinberg and Penn.

It sure seems that way doesn't it...there was a definately a strong, dark presence in this film...and it wasn't Dark Phoenix by anymeans, it was FOX.