What can DC/WB do now to move forward? Is there hope? - Part 1

[reverse flash]

Again, what "chances" have they been taking? The "riskiest" thing they've done so far is "try to copy the style of the director who made their last three huge movies". "Making dark and edgy movies" is the opposite of risk, its been the cliche adaptation safe move since the 90s.

Making more adult driven movies and starting out batman in a dark place where he lost his way. Going with how the world would react to these heroes and playing that up is a risk.

 

[writer0327]

It's not about tone, it's about good films and understanding the characters. The tone is only became an issue with BvS & MoS because:
1. Superman isn't seen as a dark, gloomy character. And if you're going to write him that way, fine, but you better nail it. They didn't. It didn't help
2. The movies themselves were poorly written.
3. Snyder is just not a great director for this sort of material. This would have been gold in the hands of Nolan, but Snyder is not the right man for the job.

But changing the tone won't mean anything if they go and make another Green Lantern. A bad movie is a bad movie regardless of tone. MCU makes mostly good popular movies. Folks may not like the tone, the formula, and the jokes, but the films are good. And this is a business to make films that resonate with general audiences.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

I think it's weird that WB made the choice to go back to Goyer. I thought he was out after he had his BVS script was thrown out. He was also behind MOS a movie that while I liked, ended up getting polarizing reactions.

 

[metaphysician]

Making more adult driven movies

*citation needed*

I've yet to see any evidence of the DCEU movies being "adult driven" beyond the children-will-get-bored-to-tears sense. Suicide Squad in particular flies in the face of this idea, being juvenile on almost every measurable level. So, again: what risks are they taking?

 

[Osiris-Rex]

Completely agree. DC doesn't seem to have any direction. Gotham City Sirens....hey Harley Quinn is hot coming off of Suicide Squad! Let's talk that up and get that into production asap!

So WB should wait 10 years until the interest in Harley Quinn dies down like it did with Catwoman 10 years after Batman Returns and end up making a movie
with some other actor instead of Robbie, like they did with Berry instead of Pfeiffer, and the movie turns out terrible?

 

[Erzengel]

I'd like to see if they can do something at SDCC and announce what movies are coming out post JL. Not even counting Aquaman, The Batman and Sirens, there have been people attached to like a dozen other DCEU movies.

In regards to Harley Quinn, are we honestly going to get 3 different movies she could star in? Not including cameos in other ones?

 

[Consona]

‘Green Lantern’ Reboot Moving Ahead with Writers David Goyer and Justin Rhodes

Hal Jordan & John Stewart

 

[reverse flash]

*citation needed*

I've yet to see any evidence of the DCEU movies being "adult driven" beyond the children-will-get-bored-to-tears sense. Suicide Squad in particular flies in the face of this idea, being juvenile on almost every measurable level. So, again: what risks are they taking?

I gave a risk with batman that you ignored and clearly your not going to listen as youve displayed so well agree to disagree.

 

[writer0327]

So WB should wait 10 years until the interest in Harley Quinn dies down like it did with Catwoman 10 years after Batman Returns and end up making a movie
with some other actor instead of Robbie, like they did with Berry instead of Pfeiffer, and the movie turns out terrible?

No, they should have already had GCS on the slate. DC is a totally reactionary organization. Why did Suicide Squad get a music upgrade? Because of GOTG. They had a dark tone, now they are switching to a lighter one.

Stop flying by the seat of your pants, DC. Develop a gameplan and stick with it. I understand some adjustments are expected along the way, but what they are doing is tantamount to guesswork. Oh, this is hot right? Alright let's do it! It's all sloppy and poorly executed when you don't have a solid gameplan, and this results in bad films.

 

[BestGirl]

I would love the DCEU to have a tone similar to Netflix's Daredevil: neither juvenile nor grimdark. The hero finds himself in dire situations but maintains nevertheless a sense of hope. Jokes aren't cracked once every ten minutes but the tone isn't dreary, either. It would make a nice middle ground between the MCU and DCEU.

 

[reverse flash]

No, they should have already had GCS on the slate. DC is a totally reactionary organization. Why did Suicide Squad get a music upgrade? Because of GOTG. They had a dark tone, now they are switching to a lighter one.

Stop flying by the seat of your pants, DC. Develop a gameplan and stick with it. I understand some adjustments are expected along the way, but what they are doing is tantamount to guesswork. Oh, this is hot right? Alright let's do it! It's all sloppy and poorly executed when you don't have a solid gameplan, and this results in bad films.

To be fair DC doesnt have an infinity gauntlet like story to build too. You think this is bad with WB being reactionary try being an xmen fan with that cluster.

 

[Wildcard]

The grim gritty tone isn't the problem. Look at Nolan's TDK trilogy, it was mega successful with it's gritty tone. It's the execution of the tone that's the DCEU's problem.

Exactly. And that execution is what is rubbing people the wrong way, not the tone itself. There are ways to pull off dark films & have the quality be superb. As you said yourself, Nolan's TDK trilogy is a perfect example.

The problem with WB is that, for the most part, they're just throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks instead of having an actual plan.

 

[brandeezy89]

Of course Nolan's TDK trilogy worked, because he's Batman, he's suppose to be dark and he had no other DC heroes helping him or involved.

Nolan tried the same thing with Superman and failed because critics felt that Superman should never be dark or "gritty" and should always smile

 

[Flint Marko]

That's not why critics don't like the DCEU Superman.

 

[The Joker]

If you ignore the MCU and the X-Men movies, you can make believe that critics hate to see other heroes working together and that's why BvS was a critical flop. Nothing to do with the horrendous mess of a script, and poor acting from several leads. As for Superman needing to smile more, I have seen no critical consensus that says Superman was too depressing and needed to be lighter. If you look at the critical consensus for MOS on RT it says;

Man of Steel's exhilarating action and spectacle can't fully overcome its detours into generic blockbuster territory.

There was nothing wrong with the chosen tone for MOS. It was all about how horribly the whole thing was executed by Snyder. Generic blockbuster territory is the perfect summation of it. Bland as hell. Then you have Suicide Squad. What's the excuse for that being critically hammered? That critics hate seeing villains teaming up?

 

[2kt09]

I would love the DCEU to have a tone similar to Netflix's Daredevil: neither juvenile nor grimdark.

Wish granted. Also, we must not be watching the same show if you haven't already picked up on the juvenile or grimdark parts that elevate the romance/mystery.

To be fair DC doesnt have an infinity gauntlet like story to build too.

I really doubt that's true because it's such a basic story to have all these characters connected through. Heck, Jackie Chan Adventures and Transformers Prime had similar overarching plots, so DC could totally make one up.

You think this is bad with WB being reactionary try being an xmen fan with that cluster.

Spoiler

Since, X-Men seems relevant here for w/e reason. I applaud BvS for the sociopolitical thriller, but not even the best X-Men movies give THAT much lip-service to that. So...hopefully, Terrio learned that lesson because clearly Goyer's screenplay was more straightforward [BLACKOUT]good riddance to that mook[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

If you ignore the MCU and the X-Men movies, you can make believe that critics hate to see other heroes working together and that's why BvS was a critical flop. Nothing to do with the horrendous mess of a script, and poor acting from several leads. As for Superman needing to smile more, I have seen no critical consensus that says Superman was too depressing and needed to be lighter. If you look at the critical consensus for MOS on RT it says;

Man of Steel's exhilarating action and spectacle can't fully overcome its detours into generic blockbuster territory.

There was nothing wrong with the chosen tone for MOS. It was all about how horribly the whole thing was executed by Snyder. Generic blockbuster territory is the perfect summation of it. Bland as hell. Then you have Suicide Squad. What's the excuse for that being critically hammered? That critics hate seeing villains teaming up?

"Generic blockbuster" is a good way to describe Man of Steel. I enjoyed it enough as a mindless popcorn movie, but that's all it was. I was hoping for something with a little more substance, like a Batman Begins.

 

[DrCosmic]

The problem I have with MoS as a mindless popcorn movie is that it keeps trying to convince me that it's not mindless. FnF is mindless and knows it, so I enjoy it sooooo much more.

 

[writer0327]

The problem I have is MoS wasn't intended to be mindless. That's kind of a huge problem. When you don't have a solid gameplan you often get what you didn't intend.

I don't get why DC needs to be grim. I don't get the fascination with this idea that dark is better. I mean i don't have a problem if it is, but i don't understand why there are many who feel this is what it has to be.

 

[Patchwork Man]

"Generic blockbuster"?

Iron Man 2
Iron Man 3
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Ant-Man
Doctor Strange

^All qualify. Civil War evades it (but not by much).

The action/story/antagonist of MoS > all of the above. That's right.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

"Generic blockbuster" is a good way to describe Man of Steel. I enjoyed it enough as a mindless popcorn movie, but that's all it was. I was hoping for something with a little more substance, like a Batman Begins.

Agreed. All Dceu movies are generic blockbuster.

The problem I have with MoS as a mindless popcorn movie is that it keeps trying to convince me that it's not mindless. FnF is mindless and knows it, so I enjoy it sooooo much more.

Agreed.

 

[reverse flash]

The problem I have with MoS as a mindless popcorn movie is that it keeps trying to convince me that it's not mindless. FnF is mindless and knows it, so I enjoy it sooooo much more.

I would say that last act in mos is mindless popcorn but I could argue the first 2/3 werent

 

[reverse flash]

The problem I have is MoS wasn't intended to be mindless. That's kind of a huge problem. When you don't have a solid gameplan you often get what you didn't intend.

I don't get why DC needs to be grim. I don't get the fascination with this idea that dark is better. I mean i don't have a problem if it is, but i don't understand why there are many who feel this is what it has to be.

Its the dark knight effect but it only works for batman

 

[Ghost_Rider]

"Generic blockbuster"?

Iron Man 2
Iron Man 3
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Ant-Man
Doctor Strange

^All qualify. Civil War evades it (but not by much).

The action/story/antagonist of MoS > all of the above. That's right.

For the most part, critics and audiences disagree with that.

The script to MOS was a complete mess IMO.

Especially in how the flashbacks were used. Very amateur-ish. Tried to be like Nolan's BB and failed. The narrative was a mess. You had an overload of dry exposition in a dialogue, breaking the show, don't tell, mantra.


This is why I'm confident that Goyer's GL script will be crap without Chris Nolan assisting.

 

[Boy Scout]

That's not why critics don't like the DCEU Superman.

I don't know why we need to keep saying the same thing four years later, but here we are.