What can DC/WB do now to move forward? Is there hope? - Part 1

[R_Hythlodeus]

BB, TDK and TDKR are each their own standalone films.

I have a problem with that sentence. TDKR wasn't a standalone film. It didn't stand on his own feet. It constantly felt the need to refer to the other two movies through plot points, cameos and backflashes. I guess TDKR might have been a way stronger movie if it wasn't so dependend on the other two entries in the trilogy.

 

[metaphysician]

I don't know, I think the main flaw in TDKR was that it desperately wanted to be about an hour longer, and/or split into two movies. Most of its flaws would be fixed by giving the plot time to breath and develop.

And even in spite of that, its still an extremely solid movie.

 

[Erzengel]

You can't cameo Liam Neelson and talk about his character's child without relying on Batman Begins or the events at the end of TDK with Rachel and Harvey's death.

 

[MbJ]

I have a problem with that sentence. TDKR wasn't a standalone film. It didn't stand on his own feet. It constantly felt the need to refer to the other two movies through plot points, cameos and backflashes. I guess TDKR might have been a way stronger movie if it wasn't so dependend on the other two entries in the trilogy.

I'm not really sure what to make of this. By definition, isn't a sequel going to require some knowledge of the previous movie? True, some films are better about this than others, but most sequels will try to reference their predecessors to some degree.

Even TDK, which was a much stronger movie, still called back to Batman Begins.

 

[writer0327]

What some are suggesting (DC to move onward with solo film projects, effectively scrapping the DCEU) would be the biggest admission of failure in the film industry in quite some time. I think they are stuck between a rock and a hard place and are obliged to see this through to the end.

If WW and JL don't get at least a 55-60% on RT, we're probably looking at a couple more films to finish out the current slate and then they'll announce they're going in a "bold new direction."

 

[2kt09]

What some are suggesting (DC to move onward with solo film projects, effectively scrapping the DCEU) would be the biggest admission of failure in the film industry in quite some time

Did quite some time change to every year this declaration has been made, especially in the last 3 years?

I think they are stuck between a rock and a hard place and are obliged to see this through to the end.

If WW and JL don't get at least a 55-60% on RT, we're probably looking at a couple more films to finish out the current slate and then they'll announce they're going in a "bold new direction."

"A bold new direction" would be defecting to what Skwad got away with or the other easier alternative of a 4 quadrant blockbuster.

 

[MbJ]

What some are suggesting (DC to move onward with solo film projects, effectively scrapping the DCEU) would be the biggest admission of failure in the film industry in quite some time.

I don't think the switch to solely solo films will happen (at the very least we're still gonna get that Gotham Sirens movie and probably a Suicide Squad 2, if for no other reason than the popularity of Harley and Deadshot with audiences), but I mean, the company's actions have already been an admission.

Studios that are happy with the way things are going don't make huge PR plays dedicated to convincing people their upcoming slate will be nothing like their previous movies.

 

[writer0327]

Did quite some time change to every year this declaration has been made, especially in the last 3 years?


Well they haven't admitted failure yet. They are still heading forward with the DCEU. If they scrapped it altogether is what I'm saying.

 

[2kt09]

If they scrapped it altogether is what I'm saying.

And what I'm saying is...
We've seen/judged far worse as being the "biggest admission of failure in the film industry."

They could decide right now that upcoming DC features are no longer part of a shared universe, but compared to those bigger failures:
1) they're still being made on this yearly timetable
2) they would still be made in-house

 

[Flint Marko]

And what I'm saying is...
We've seen/judged far worse as being the "biggest admission of failure in the film industry."

What's been judged as worse than outright cancelling a cinematic universe? What's even happened that has been as bad as cancelling a cinematic universe?

 

[2kt09]

What's been judged as worse than outright cancelling a cinematic universe? What's even happened that has been as bad as cancelling a cinematic universe?

My hints couldn't be more obvious, especially for you of all hypesters

I'll be more blunt this time.
The closest that comes to mind is the complete and utter demolition of the F4 - remember that one? -
and the series of unfortunate events (both of things in/out of their control)
that forced Sony to play ball with Marvel Studios for yet another reboot
"biggest admission of failure in the film industry"
I'm sure there are more devastating examples within the history of the "film industry" and in recent proximity

 

[writer0327]

My hints couldn't be more obvious, especially for you of all hypesters

I'll be more blunt this time.
The closest that comes to mind is the complete and utter demolition of the F4 - remember that one? -
and the series of unfortunate events (both of things in/out of their control)
that forced Sony to play ball with Marvel Studios for yet another reboot
"biggest admission of failure in the film industry"
I'm sure there are more devastating examples within the history of the "film industry" and in recent proximity

I don't know if we can conjure up something more devastating than the DCEU going belly up. The DCEU promises (or shows the potential of) enormous tentpole blockbuster films for the next 4-6 years and beyond, with a vast variety of characters, storylines, and endless possibilities that can go in a hundred different directions. It is supposed to rival what Marvel is doing, if not surpass it.

More than that, the WB is counting on their various universes (DCEU/Potter/Godzilla-Kong) to stay in the black, with the DCEU probably being the biggest universe at the moment. CBMs are all the rage right now. They need their comic book division to hit home runs, not singles and doubles. The Potter EU seems to be uncertain at best, don't know how much more they can milk out of that series, but they will die trying. Godzilla-Kong feels like "meh" right now. But their comic book movies need to cash in. Soo to use another sports analogy, DCEU collapsing would be like having your #1 draft pick and the future of your sports franchise end up being a bust.

 

[Flint Marko]

My hints couldn't be more obvious, especially for you of all hypesters

I asked an honest question knowing you were going to give a condescending remark right off the bat.

I'll be more blunt this time.
The closest that comes to mind is the complete and utter demolition of the F4 - remember that one? -

You mean the cheap rights grab that was never meant to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with an interconnected cinematic universe where each installment comes with a 250 million plus price tag? K

and the series of unfortunate events (both of things in/out of their control)
that forced Sony to play ball with Marvel Studios for yet another reboot
"biggest admission of failure in the film industry"
I'm sure there are more devastating examples within the history of the "film industry" and in recent proximity

So right here you're trying to compare one movie that came in below expectations to a franchise where (ostensibly, given the hypothetical) multiple installments came in below expectations and killed the entire future of the franchise. See how this doesn't add up and your original comment doesn't make sense?

 

[2kt09]

I don't know if we can conjure up something more devastating than the DCEU going belly up.

I repeat Fantastic 4 is a practically dead IP. Other things?
Studio going bankrupt
Studio mergers, which have happened
Studios, no entire companies, being bought up to mitigate future losses, which has also already happened

The DCEU promises (or shows the potential of) enormous tentpole blockbuster films for the next 4-6 years and beyond, with a vast variety of characters, storylines, and endless possibilities that can go in a hundred different directions. It is supposed to rival what Marvel is doing, if not surpass it.

This doesn't change if their shared universe collapses. They switch over to solo installments like their DTV market has for the longest time, and now their filmmakers are even less restrained to make movies, while still aiming to make bank. DC would also have WB Animation to stand on, and it wouldn't have to be "Lego".

More than that, the WB is counting on their various universes (DCEU/Potter/Godzilla-Kong) to stay in the black, with the DCEU probably being the biggest universe at the moment. CBMs are all the rage right now. They need their comic book division to hit home runs, not singles and doubles. The Potter EU seems to be uncertain at best, don't know how much more they can milk out of that series, but they will die trying. Godzilla-Kong feels like "meh" right now. But their comic book movies need to cash in. Soo to use another sports analogy, DCEU collapsing would be like having your #1 draft pick and the future of your sports franchise end up being a bust.

So, are comicbook tv shows, which WB/DC has a massive investment in.
Heck, they're somehow back in the serialized animated market, even outside of Cartoon Network.
I repeat they switch to solo flicks of their DC characters, and let's assume they're all to the quality and around the cost of Suicide Squad, they're still making the money to continue their brand.

I'd be pretty bummed by that particular conversion, but it's NOT "the bigger admission of failure" than what I referenced.

I asked an honest question knowing you were going to give a condescending remark right off the bat.

Your welcome.

You mean the cheap rights grab that was never meant to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with an interconnected cinematic universe where each installment comes with a 250 million plus price tag? K

Exactly. Soak it in. We're still waiting on what's going on with that, right?

So right here you're trying to compare one movie that came in below expectations to a franchise where (ostensibly, given the hypothetical) multiple installments came in below expectations and killed the entire future of the franchise. See how this doesn't add up and your original comment doesn't make sense?

That's a nice way of saying one movie where they lost a lot of money with a franchise of continued diminishing investment that they had no merchandising rights to in the first place (check me up on this, pretty sure Sony would only have movie tie-in merchandising), and was shamed for their hilarious leaked process in "what to do next". Killed that particular franchise's future as well.

 

[Flint Marko]

Your welcome.

You're*
It'd be one thing if your arguments earned the condescending tone, but they do not.

Exactly. Soak it in. We're still waiting on what's going on with that, right?

This isn't a rebuttal. You are trying to compare one single low-budget rights grab that was never more than a blip on the pop culture radar to a string of high-profile, poorly-received $200 million+ blockbusters starring the most iconic superheroes of all time and, given the hypothetical presented, continued to drop in quality and kill the franchise. FFINO was certainly a failure but there's not a valid comparison here, and it seems you know that given your lack of a proper response.

That's a nice way of saying one movie where they lost a lot of money with a franchise of continued diminishing investment that they had no merchandising rights to in the first place (check me up on this, pretty sure Sony would only have movie tie-in merchandising), and was shamed for their hilarious leaked process in "what to do next". Killed that particular franchise's future as well.

Actually Sony made about $70 million in profit off ASM 2. So again, no comparison. I'll restate my claim: you are trying to compare one movie that came in below expectations made by a studio who faced much bigger problems than mishandling one movie to a string of high-profile, poorly-received $200 million+ blockbusters starring the most iconic superheroes of all time and, given the hypothetical presented, continued to drop in quality and kill the franchise.

This genre is full of failures and admission of failures but WB taking their top-notch stable and completely pooping the bed, while their competition runs laps around them with a bunch of B-listers while making it look easy, would undoubtedly be the biggest admission of failure.

 

[2kt09]

You're*
It'd be one thing if your arguments earned the condescending tone, but they do not.

Thanks.

This isn't a rebuttal. You are trying to compare one single low-budget rights grab that was never more than a blip on the pop culture radar to a string of high-profile, poorly-received $200 million+ blockbusters starring the most iconic superheroes of all time and, given the hypothetical presented, continued to drop in quality and kill the franchise. FFINO was certainly a failure but there's not a valid comparison here, and it seems you know that given your lack of a proper response.

The hypothetical presented was actually that they'd scrap the DCEU AND transition to solo features.
We have an active thread due to how massive of a failure F4 was, which as a franchise has barely anything in motion right now. DC plain and simply bounces back, and they even had a shared universe collapse on entry based off Green Lantern. Never even would have gotten GLTAS if that movie wasn't released. Recall as well how MoS was supposed to be a franchise like any other before they blatantly pressed the shared universe button.

Actually Sony made about $70 million in profit off ASM 2.

Thanks for the correction, again. A perfect example of a movie within a franchise that was on a downward trajectory, that pooped the bed so hard, they had to rethink their future with their licensee/loaner.
Minus the resorting to a coproduction, is this not your projected scenario?
I say this is worse because they didn't have the merchandising to make up for such prolonged bad investments.
This studio, more than the big 3-4 right now, itself couldn't afford to have this failure in particular.

This genre is full of failures and admission of failures, but WB taking their top-notch stable and completely pooping the bed, while their competition runs laps around them with a bunch of B-listers and while making it look easy, would undoubtedly be the biggest admission of failure.

I'd say it depends on how many losses they'd be willing to take before the universe is scrapped. Given how reactionary WB currently is compared to say when they released GL and Jonah Hex, they'd pull out much quicker. It's just too bad Skwad made money let alone BvS.

 

[Flint Marko]

The hypothetical presented was actually that they'd scrap the DCEU AND transition to solo features.
We have an active thread due to how massive of a failure F4 was, which as a franchise has barely anything in motion right now. DC plain and simply bounces back, and they even had a shared universe collapse on entry based off Green Lantern. Never even would have gotten GLTAS if that movie wasn't released. Recall as well how MoS was supposed to be a franchise like any other before they blatantly pressed the shared universe button.

Them outright cancelling the DCEU is what we are saying is the biggest admission of failure. No high-profile franchise this big that is already several notable disappointments deep has been unceremoniously scrapped before, particularly while their biggest competition has quickly become the biggest media franchise of all time. It doesn't matter whether or not they "bounce back", cancelling their huge cinematic universe while Marvel keeps chugging along undoubtedly takes the cake in this discussion. WB continuing afterwards to make stand-alone DC films is immaterial given that their admission of failure in regards to the failed DCEU experiment would undoubtedly be the biggest we've seen yet.

Thanks for the correction, again. A perfect example of a movie within a franchise that was on a downward trajectory, that pooped the bed so hard, they had to rethink their future with their licensee/loaner.
Minus the resorting to a coproduction, is this not your projected scenario?

No, my projected scenario is this aforementioned example happening several times over until WB has no choice but to throw in the towel based on their own incompetence and lack of direction, and not the intervention of a foreign country hacking the parent studio.

I say this is worse because they didn't have the merchandising to make up for such prolonged bad investments.
This studio, more than the big 3-4 right now, itself couldn't afford to have this failure in particular.

I don't see how merchandising factors into this discussion. We aren't debating the studio's bottom line, we are talking about "biggest admission of failure", and so far I have yet to see any proper rebuttal to my original argument:

A string of high-profile, poorly-received $200 million+ blockbusters starring the most iconic superheroes of all time meant to be direct competition to the MCU that continued to drop in quality and was unceremoniously scrapped would undoubtedly be the biggest (most notable, most high-profile, most public, most long-lasting, embarrassing, etc) admission of failure we've seen yet.

 

[2kt09]

Them outright cancelling the DCEU is what we are saying is the biggest admission of failure. No high-profile franchise this big that is already several notable disappointments deep has been unceremoniously scrapped before, particularly while their biggest competition has quickly become the biggest media franchise of all time.

It's a cancellation of a franchise of movies (be it self-contained or a spinoff machine); not putting an IP into a coma, not being forced to work with another studio to do the work they can't do on their own, nor selling off their properties to prevent bankruptcy

It doesn't matter whether or not they "bounce back", cancelling their huge cinematic universe while Marvel keeps chugging along undoubtedly takes the cake in this discussion. WB continuing afterwards to make stand-alone DC films is immaterial given that their admission of failure in regards to the failed DCEU experiment would undoubtedly be the biggest we've seen yet.

It matters because THAT'S what's being discussed. I don't see the doom and gloom, when WB/DC would still be making movies just not beholden to that cohesive puzzle.

No, my projected scenario is this aforementioned example happening several times over until WB has no choice but to throw in the towel based on their own incompetence and lack of direction, and not the intervention of a foreign country hacking the parent studio.

That's what happened to Sony. I bring up TASM2 because that was the final death nail to their coffin. Their incompetence was so bad for the most merchandise-able superhero that they threw in the towel and decided on a joint venture to prevent further losses rather than a total renouncement of what they own.

I don't see how merchandising factors into this discussion. We aren't debating the studio's bottom line, we are talking about "biggest admission of failure", and so far I have yet to see any proper rebuttal to my original argument:

If "biggest admission of failure in the film industry" is concerned, it's more than just quality
Fox's Fant4stic took the cheap route (relative to Sony) and it still bombed, <- being the final step to "Marvel's First Family" in limbo

A string of high-profile, poorly-received $200 million+ blockbusters starring the most iconic superheroes of all time meant to be direct competition to the MCU that continued to drop in quality and was unceremoniously scrapped would undoubtedly be the biggest (most notable, most high-profile, most public, most long-lasting, embarrassing, etc) admission of failure we've seen yet.

Within the film industry? No.

 

[DrCosmic]

It's a cancellation of a franchise of movies (be it self-contained or a spinoff machine); not putting an IP into a coma, not being forced to work with another studio to do the work they can't do on their own, nor selling off their properties to prevent bankruptcy


It matters because THAT'S what's being discussed. I don't see the doom and gloom, when WB/DC would still be making movies just not beholden to that cohesive puzzle.


That's what happened to Sony. I bring up TASM2 because that was the final death nail to their coffin. Their incompetence was so bad for the most merchandise-able superhero that they threw in the towel and decided on a joint venture to prevent further losses rather than a total renouncement of what they own.


If "biggest admission of failure in the film industry" is concerned, it's more than just quality
Fox's Fant4stic took the cheap route (relative to Sony) and it still bombed, <- being the final step to "Marvel's First Family" in limbo


Within the film industry? No.

Scale dude. Putting Justice League into a coma is a bigger failure than putting F4 into a coma, because Justice League is a bigger name with more investment in terms of screen time and development, and more potential in terms of spinoffs and universe building. Working with another studio to do an IP is a smaller failure than just not doing that IP at all. Selling off properties to prevent your comic book company from going bankrupt is not a failure in movie making. No one was disappointed that Marvel Studios failed to make Spider-Man and X-Men and had to rely on other studios, and made movies that were panned compared to what WB was offering in DC heroes, because there was no Marvel Studios and B&R was crap sucked.

There is no way for WB to cancel the DCEU and not be seen as a failure to compete with Marvel, which we all know they could have if they had managed to make the characters as appealing as the have been in previous adaptations. They won't bounce back, they're going to downshift, and nothing else compares, especially Sony's Spidey Verse (Aunt May solo shout out!) or Fox's cheap and dirty F4 franchises. Maybe if Sony had put in a billion dollars and four-six films into their F4, maybe then it would be relevant as a "big failure." But they only put in a small amount of time/money so it's a small failure. Same with Spidey, same with everything else. There's just no comparison here.

 

[2kt09]

Scale dude. Putting Justice League into a coma is a bigger failure than putting F4 into a coma, because Justice League is a bigger name with more investment in terms of screen time and development, and more potential in terms of spinoffs and universe building. Working with another studio to do an IP is a smaller failure than just not doing that IP at all. Selling off properties to prevent your comic book company from going bankrupt is not a failure in movie making. No one was disappointed that Marvel Studios failed to make Spider-Man and X-Men and had to rely on other studios, and made movies that were panned compared to what WB was offering in DC heroes, because there was no Marvel Studios and B&R was crap sucked.

I understood the scale. The doom & gloom has now evolved to putting the Justice League into a coma. By coma I mean destroying the brand enough to have its future be uncertain/practically obsolete and as years go by without much development to tide that loss (6 more years to go?). Again, we have been talking about cancelling a universe to move into making solo features. Oh and apparently, the DC equivalent to Marvel Studios was set up in the middle of last year. So...that's relevant.

There is no way for WB to cancel the DCEU and not be seen as a failure to compete with Marvel

As the biggest admission of failure in the film industry, your case has to be specific enough for it to be objectively that bad.
I can view the DCEU cancellation in varying degrees, even with that outcome people want to project.

nothing else compares, especially Sony's Spidey Verse (Aunt May solo shout out!) or Fox's cheap and dirty F4 franchises. Maybe if Sony had put in a billion dollars and four-six films into their F4, maybe then it would be relevant as a "big failure." But they only put in a small amount of time/money so it's a small failure. Same with Spidey, same with everything else. There's just no comparison here.

Sony's handling of Spider-Man is the closest comparison.
Fox's cheap and dirty F4 franchises is the worst scenario because they've gotten as far as not releasing a movie made by a b-movie director and have now most recently seen the sky fall with their attempt at trying to fix something from being so obviously dirty and cheap.
Hypothetical Scale meet circumstantial evidence ^

 

[DrCosmic]

I understood the scale. The doom & gloom has now evolved to putting the Justice League into a coma. By coma I mean destroying the brand enough to have its future be uncertain/practically obsolete and as years go by without much development to tide that loss. Again, we have been talking about cancelling a universe to move into making solo features. Oh and apparently, the DC equivalent to Marvel Studios was set up in the middle of last year. So...that's relevant.


As the biggest admission of failure in the film industry, your case has to be specific enough for it to be objectively that bad.
I can view the DCEU cancellation in varying degrees, even with that outcome people want to project.

Sony's handling of Spider-Man is the closest comparison.
Fox's cheap and dirty F4 franchises is the worst scenario because they've gotten as far as not releasing a movie made by a b-movie director and have now most recently seen the sky fall with their attempt at trying to fix something from being so obviously dirty and cheap.
Hypothetical Scale meet circumstantial evidence ^

Moving on to solo features doesn't make JL "uncertain" or "practically obsolete"... it makes the JL's future very certainly and definitely obsolete. Many years will go by without any development, something that is not possible, for contractual reasons, with Fantastic Four. DC doesn't have an equivalent of Marvel Studios, that is a huge part of the problem. WB has been and will continue to oversee all of that. If the new structure they created, which is different from MS structure, was relevant, then we'd see a change in output, wouldn't we?

How does not releasing a movie by a B-movie director seem bigger than not releasing a movie by an A-movie director? How does their failure to fix something dirty and cheap seem bigger than failing to fix something dirty and expensive. The examples are equally as specific. No, my friend, you don't get scale. There is nothing hypothetical about the billions WB have sunk into the DCEU.

 

[2kt09]

Moving on to solo features doesn't make JL "uncertain" or "practically obsolete"... it makes the JL's future very certainly and definitely obsolete.

Unless you've already hypothesized it had to be so Fant4stic/FFINO bad, another Justice League would be out of the question. All I'm going with is that that universe's fate is canned. Develop another Justice League movie with a different approach. Make several and have those collide via Inifinite Crisis. Possibilities are endless when you're not limited the way F4 is.

Many years will go by without any development, something that is not possible, for contractual reasons, with Fantastic Four.

This is worse. This is, without bias, worse.
Fox is contractually obligated to make another F4 movie IF that last attempt wasn't bad enough to have the rights revert.

DC doesn't have an equivalent of Marvel Studios, that is a huge part of the problem. WB has been and will continue to oversee all of that. If the new structure they created, which is different from similar to the MS structure, was relevant, then we'd see a change in output, wouldn't we?

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/batman-v-superman-fallout-warner-895174

How does not releasing a movie by a B-movie director seem bigger than not releasing a movie by an A-movie director? How does their failure to fix something dirty and cheap seem bigger than failing to fix something dirty and expensive. The examples are equally as specific. No, my friend, you don't get scale. There is nothing hypothetical about the billions WB have sunk into the DCEU.

Well, first of all it was a cheap movie. Second of all, it wasn't released.
That's a massive failure from start-finish.
Because "expensive" is putting in actual effort and hoping for success.
Fox's admission of failure is bigger because they actually prepare for it.
End the DCEU right now, and focus their efforts on making good solo features
OR make several films akin to Suicide Squad to make up for those billions.

 

[Flint Marko]

It's a cancellation of a franchise of movies (be it self-contained or a spinoff machine); not putting an IP into a coma, not being forced to work with another studio to do the work they can't do on their own, nor selling off their properties to prevent bankruptcy

It's a cancellation of an interconnected superhero franchise touted as the cornerstone for WB's near future in a time when interconnected superhero franchises are the hottest thing in Hollywood. This blows your examples out of the water.

It matters because THAT'S what's being discussed.
I don't see the doom and gloom, when WB/DC would still be making movies just not beholden to that cohesive puzzle.

But it doesn't matter in regards to the current debate at hand, that being if WB cancelled the DCEU, it would be a staggering admission of failure that eclipses any example you can bring to the table. If you don't see the doom and gloom in WB failing to capitalize on the most iconic superheroes ever at a time when superhero movies are the hottest thing in Hollywood, you need to open your eyes.

That's what happened to Sony. I bring up TASM2 because that was the final death nail to their coffin. Their incompetence was so bad for the most merchandise-able superhero that they threw in the towel and decided on a joint venture to prevent further losses rather than a total renouncement of what they own.

That's not what happened with Sony. The first ASM made them a nice profit and easily garnered a sequel; the next movie is where things went wrong, but they still garnered a profit. Again, you are pointing to one disappointing film and trying to compare it to an entire slate of bigger, more high-profile disappointments.

If "biggest admission of failure in the film industry" is concerned, it's more than just quality
Fox's Fant4stic took the cheap route (relative to Sony) and it still bombed, <- being the final step to "Marvel's First Family" in limbo

Your comparisons don't hold water and frankly I'm finding that you aren't even really addressing the argument.

Don't talk around this point: comparing the entire high-profile DCEU slate to one singular movie is a dubious comparison to begin with. It's about scale, and you keep not addressing this.

Your comparison's fall apart even further once you actually take a look: FFINO was one low-rent rights grab of a property that is nowhere near as popular as the DCEU. No one cared that it came and went, it was a complete blip on the radar and everyone paying attention knew it was a failure months before it premiered. ASM 2 coming in below expectations but still turning a profit isn't a good comparison either, and neither is them handing the reigns over to Marvel due to their parent company being hacked by an enemy of the US government. That's a completely different ball game than throwing in the towel on a franchise because it just flat out does not connect with audiences, which is the situation we are discussing with WB.

I'm going to repeat myself one more time: WB failing to capitalize on an interconnected universe full of the most iconic superheroes at a time when interconnected superhero movies are the hottest thing in Hollywood would be a failure that eclipses anything that has happened in quite some time.

Within the film industry? No.

Find me some examples then, because you've been unable to do so thus far.

 

[Luke234]

As much as BVS got hammered it still made a ton. If they didn't put it on pT with s mortal kombat sequel it would have cracked this billion mark that FANS are obsessed about . Well, truthfully I think it's more Marvel fans that seem to want DC to fail.
They'll go light and jokey, more kids will go and they'll get the billion mark that fans seem to want as much as the studios.

 

[Erzengel]

As much as BVS got hammered it still made a ton. If they didn't put it on pT with s mortal kombat sequel it would have cracked this billion mark that FANS are obsessed about . Well, truthfully I think it's more Marvel fans that seem to want DC to fail.
They'll go light and jokey, more kids will go and they'll get the billion mark that fans seem to want as much as the studios.

I think most comic book movie fans just want good movies. Regardless if it's Marvel, DC or Fox.

The DCEU is made for a niche audience. WB wants to expand it.

Saying it made a ton, but criticizing RT for keeping it from making a $1B could also be looked at as, because of the popularity of it's characters it still made a ton despite being a poor movie.