The Dark Knight Rises What do you not like about the movie?

[Robin91939]

I also have problem with cops who were trapped in the rubble getting all the food and water needed to survive all those months. If a hole was big enough to lower aide to them, how come the same ropes used to lower the supplies didn't allow the cops to get out of the hole? Wasn't the city under lockdown and none of the help can come through the bridge? I find it hard to believe that the city, already short of food and water due to the lockdown, can still find enough of them to give to the cops for many months afterward. How come none of them froze to death during the winter months?

The showdown between the cops and the criminals was pretty laughable. Cops were mostly using small arms, while the criminals were armed to the teeth with machine guns. With that kind of disparity you'd think 99% of the cops would be dead before reaching the other side. Batman was so kind of take out the cannons but left the criminals well enough alone. I thought he should have helped the cops by taking the criminals out with the weapons and give cops chance to close the distance. Yeah I know about his mortal code but these are cops and shouldn't he try to help them from getting killed?

Again this is just wrong and is answered in the movie. The city was under lockdown but Bane specifically said that food and supplies were to be delivered from the outside world to Gotham. That's why the one bridge was open, albeit protected. He wasn't murdering the whole City -- he was trying to start a revolution. That's why he also wasn't going to use the nuke unless Gotham didn't take his goodwill and take control of their city.

The government was expressly told by Bane to ship in food and supplies across that bridge, but that no one could enter or exit.

As far as the cops -- it wasn't citizens lowering food -- it was armed guards who were Bane's men lowering the food. Again -- Bane was evil -- but he wasn't going to murder all of those cops. His goal was to revolutionize Gotham and to turn them all to his side and his cause. If they didn't -- then they would die. If the cops tried to climb out, they'd be shot. As they were when John Blake rescued his asian partner who was then shot and the opening was blown up with a grenade.

And Batman took out the cannons and the tumblers. He's not Magneto -- he can't disarm the entire army. Batman was prepared to act as a general in the war and he did so. The soldiers had to fight their fight as well.

-R

 

[Apollo]

I didn't like how there was no mention of the joker, since we got scarecrow for the third time.
At least have john blake mention how Gotham's a little bit safer after shipping him out of state years ago, good thing bane wont bust him out. something like that.

 

[socool]

Like some people, I feel like this was the weakest of the three, though that's not an insult by an means. It was still a great movie, but I felt that BB and TDK were stronger. I think it boils down to three things.

1) The scope. Now, I LOVE the idea of such a grand scale. And it was one of the most exciting parts of the film for me upon release. But, in a strange way, it hurt the film a little. When you have an entire city controlled by a terrorist squad and a nuclear bomb, a lot of factors play into that: The citizens, the government, the police, the terrorists, and the hero. The movie managed to focus on some and barely focus on others which hurt the sense of scale. The hero, the terrorists, and the police were focused on perfectly, but when it came to the other two, it fell very flat. You could tell Nolan tried to incorporate the government into it, but the few scenes were either worthless or too short to matter. The citizens were barely shown at all sans one or two shots of many citizens hold up in that one building.

2) Bane. I loved Bane, don't get me wrong, but you could tell Nolan tried to out-do himself with Bane. You could tell he wanted Bane to be a better villan than the Joker. He failed. Bane's biggest problem is, ironically, being Bane. Or, should I say, trying to be Bane. Aside from his name and him being strong, he shared little to no resemblance to the character. Had they called him something else, I never would've bat an eye-lash. This next complaint about Bane I chalk up to the excuse "What works in comics doesn't always work on film". And that complaint is that Bane wasn't unique. Joker worked so freakin well in TDK because he had nothing but his brain to help him. You knew the Joker would create some master plan to ruin everything, but once that got out of hand, you became very interested in what he was going to do to fix everything. Bane, however, suffers from being predictable. You knew that once his plan began to fall apart, he was just going to beat the living hell out of the problem. He just wasn't that great of a villain. (Though his plan was excellent.) Also, his voice sucked. I could barely understand half of what he said and it was so obviously fake. The first time you hear it, in the plane, it drowns out all other sounds. Dumb.

3) Too much ****ing stuff!!! Nolan tried to make the most epic and grand film he could to finish off his trilogy. To do this, he just jammed the movie with as much stuff as he could. And the whole movie felt like it was having trouble holding a scene. Some scenes lasted minutes, some only seconds. And it does that the whole time. A bunch of scenes that are only 10-15 seconds each to scenes that last 10-15 minutes. There's obviously scenes that last longer than that, for both the short and long scenes, but you get my point. Now, I appreciate Nolan's efforts here, and it did end up making the film feel very epic, but it also rushed the film. This is one of those instances where I feel like this movie would've benefited from adding another hour and splitting it into two films.

I still loved the movie, though. These are just the things that REALLy bugged me. I mean, I have some other, smaller, complaints, but they aren't worth mentioning here. Oh, and my nitpicks.

-The nuclear explosion. This is a weird one. It might just be that I find it very surreal that I witnessed a nuclear explosion in a Batman film, but it rubs me the wrong way.

-How the hell did Bruce get back to Gotham after climbing out of the hole? I mean, he was clearly not anywhere near Gotham when he escaped, but in only a matter of minutes he's back in Gotham. Maybe I missed this...

-Bruce falling for Selina. Now, I know that this is how it works in the comics, but Bruce devotes himself to protecting the innocent and punishing criminals. Yet, one look at Catwoman and he falls head-over-heels. He even gives her that clean slate thing! She's a thief, dude! You don't pander to that! PLUS, she killed Bane! She's a murderer, too, and Batman just ignores it. Errr, this actually might be a complaint, now that I think about it.

-Bane's death. Simply put, they barely really touched upon it. I mean, this is the guy that nearly killed Batman but destroying everything he knew and beating the living crap out of him and he just disappears after getting shot? Just like that? This is me being annoying, haha.

-Batman telling Gordon who he is. Now, I have no problem with Gordon learning Batman's identity in this film, it's when, and how, he learns it that bugs me. Gordon straight-up asks him who he is and Batman gives him this quick speech about how Gotham only needs to know of him as "Batman"...then he tells him anyway...with one of those "inside memory" things. Not only is that the fastest turn-around ever, but Batman seems to have this thing where he gives away his identity by mentioning a memory he has with that person, as Bruce, to that person. Just kinda annoying.

Yeah, that's it, I swear. I know it's long winded, but I have a lot on my mind.

 

[Avengers-Report]

The biggest thing I didn't like was the way they portrayed Gotham city. I'm not sure if there wasn't enough night shots or something, but in BB and TDK, Gotham was disgusting. It was filthy and corrupt, so dark and very accurate to the comic portrayal. I didn't get anything at ALL like that from this film, and I think it would have been important because Bane's whole revolution and reasoning for burning down Gotham is based on how corrupt the city is.

Where are the mobs? Falcone, Maroni, etc... Where are the dirty cops, the corrupt officials? UGHH

 

[socool]

The biggest thing I didn't like was the way they portrayed Gotham city. I'm not sure if there wasn't enough night shots or something, but in BB and TDK, Gotham was disgusting. It was filthy and corrupt, so dark and very accurate to the comic portrayal. I didn't get anything at ALL like that from this film, and I think it would have been important because Bane's whole revolution and reasoning for burning down Gotham is based on how corrupt the city is.

Where are the mobs? Falcone, Maroni, etc... Where are the dirty cops, the corrupt officials? UGHH

I guess you missed the part that said that Gotham was clean. The Dent Act cleaned up Gotham. As stated in the beginning of the film...

"He's a war hero. This is peace time."

 

[Robin91939]

The biggest thing I didn't like was the way they portrayed Gotham city. I'm not sure if there wasn't enough night shots or something, but in BB and TDK, Gotham was disgusting. It was filthy and corrupt, so dark and very accurate to the comic portrayal. I didn't get anything at ALL like that from this film, and I think it would have been important because Bane's whole revolution and reasoning for burning down Gotham is based on how corrupt the city is.

Where are the mobs? Falcone, Maroni, etc... Where are the dirty cops, the corrupt officials? UGHH

The mob was stamped out with the Harvey Dent Act. Any criminal affiliated with organized crime was basically imprisoned without the possibility of parole. Something like that will clean the streets pretty quickly. There were very few dirty cops as a result of there being no organized crime and Gordon being the Commissioner. This, again, is all explained in the film.


Bane came to destroy the city, not because of how corrupt the city currently was, but to finish the work started by Ra's Al Ghul in Batman Begins and destroy the city for how corrupt it was.

When Bane's men search Gordon and find the un-read speech about the truth of Harvey Dent, Bane realizes that Gotham's Salvation was based on a lie -- meaning the city was wholly corrupt and in more dire need of "saving" by Bane than he had thought. Again -- this is all in the movie. It's not even hidden in the movie, most of it is explicitly stated.

-R

 

[Avengers-Report]

I guess you missed the part that said that Gotham was clean. The Dent Act cleaned up Gotham. As stated in the beginning of the film...

"He's a war hero. This is peace time."

I didn't miss that at all. If you're going to argue that a clean transformation of the entire city, especially of Gotham city, is due one piece of legislation, then I'd have a problem with that too. Obviously things can improve, but come on...

 

[Avengers-Report]

The mob was stamped out with the Harvey Dent Act. Any criminal affiliated with organized crime was basically imprisoned without the possibility of parole. Something like that will clean the streets pretty quickly. There were very few dirty cops as a result of there being no organized crime and Gordon being the Commissioner. This, again, is all explained in the film.


Bane came to destroy the city, not because of how corrupt the city currently was, but to finish the work started by Ra's Al Ghul in Batman Begins and destroy the city for how corrupt it was.

When Bane's men search Gordon and find the un-read speech about the truth of Harvey Dent, Bane realizes that Gotham's Salvation was based on a lie -- meaning the city was wholly corrupt and in more dire need of "saving" by Bane than he had thought. Again -- this is all in the movie. It's not even hidden in the movie, most of it is explicitly stated.

-R

That in itself makes no sense. In the beginning, Bane didn't know the truth about Harvey. And Bane was outcasted from the League, particularly by Ras, but yet he wants to fulfill Ras plan of destroying a city, even if it wasn't corrupt anymore? That's just unintelligent.

His speeches seemed more about the imbalance of wealth, which in turn is an example of corruption. Bane believed Gotham was corrupt before reading Gordon's note. A darker Gotham would have helped to motivate my understand of Bane's cause.

 

[Robin91939]

That in itself makes no sense. In the beginning, Bane didn't know the truth about Harvey. And Bane was outcasted from the League, particularly by Ras, but yet he wants to fulfill Ras plan of destroying a city, even if it wasn't corrupt anymore? That's just unintelligent.

Again -- it's answered in the film.

Bane protected Talia. Talia escaped the Pit because of Bane's protection. Talia finds her father, Ra's Al Ghul, and together they go back and rescue Bane.

However, Ra's does not approve of Bane's love for his daughter. Couple that with Bane's extreme nature, and he is exiled from the League of Shadows. But Bane never stops loving Talia or believing in the Cause of the League.

Upon Ra's Al Ghul's death in Batman Begins, Bane rejoins Talia in the League of Shadows as her 2nd in Command or maybe even her equal partner. He still believed in the cause of the League of Shadows and clearly respected the man that was Ra's Al Ghul -- even if Ra's exiled him. And he still wanted to prove that he was worthy of Talia by finishing her father's work.

Talia wanted it done. Bane loved her and would do anything to help her do it. It's that simple. YET- It's not stated if his love for her was platonic or romantic -- it doesn't matter. Fact is, he loved her and it was her desire to complete Ra's Al Ghul's work. Bane respected Ra's and believed in the League of Shadow's Cause and loved Talia and would do anything he could to support her. So -- he does.

His speeches seemed more about the imbalance of wealth, which in turn is an example of corruption. Bane believed Gotham was corrupt before reading Gordon's note. A darker Gotham would have helped to motivate my understand of Bane's cause.

Yes. That's exactly how he felt. He wanted those who had been disenfranchised and screwed over by those who had it all to rise up and take control of their city from those who controlled the power. A city doesn't have to be dirty and disgusting to have very, very poor people who are consistently screwed over by very, very wealthy people.... Look at New York.


-R

 

[AnneFan]

I love reading your posts about Rises, Robin91939.

 

[Avengers-Report]

Again -- it's answered in the film.

Bane protected Talia. Talia escaped the Pit because of Bane's protection. Talia finds her father, Ra's Al Ghul, and together they go back and rescue Bane.

However, Ra's does not approve of Bane's love for his daughter. Couple that with Bane's extreme nature, and he is exiled from the League of Shadows. But Bane never stops loving Talia or believing in the Cause of the League.

Upon Ra's Al Ghul's death in Batman Begins, Bane rejoins Talia in the League of Shadows as he 2nd in Command or maybe even her equal partner. He still believed in the cause of the League of Shadows and clearly respected the man that was Ra's Al Ghul -- even if Ra's exiled him. And he still had to prove that he was worthy of Talia by finishing her father's work.

Talia wanted it done. Bane loved her and would do anything to help her do it. It's that simple. YET- It's not stated if his love for her was platonic or romantic -- it doesn't matter. Fact is, he loved her and it was her desire to complete Ra's Al Ghul's work. Bane respected Ra's and believed in the League of Shadow's Cause and loved Talia and would do anything he could to support her. So -- he does.


Yes. That's exactly how he felt. He wanted those who had been disenfranchised and screwed over by those who had it all to rise up and take control of their city from those who controlled the power. A city doesn't have to be dirty and disgusting to have very, very poor people who are consistently screwed over by very, very wealthy people.... Look at New York.


-R

Great, I understand all of that. I saw the same movie as you. But you didn't address my second point and completely took what you responded too out of context.

In my opinion, the film's explanation and reasoning for Bane's motives is weak. And that is part of film's flaws. Bane's plan was all over the place. Blow up the city, start a revolution against the corrupt (in a city you claim is no longer corrupt, thanks to the Dent act), and finally he's doing something that doesn't really make any intellectual sense (fulfilling the wish of Ras, the man who exiled him for saving his own daughter's life), for love.

What was supposed to separate Bane from the Joker was his decisive intelligence. "It's all part of the plan". He had a plan, and wanted to execute it. However, the plan was weak in context, and at times he just seemed to be wanting different things.

Yes. That's exactly how he felt. He wanted those who had been disenfranchised and screwed over by those who had it all to rise up and take control of their city from those who controlled the power. A city doesn't have to be dirty and disgusting to have very, very poor people who are consistently screwed over by very, very wealthy people.... Look at New York.


-R

Edit:

You see, that's the issue. Ras wanted to destroy Gotham because it was disgusting. His motives were intelligent in BB, he just had a different way to dealing with injustice. I don't feel the same way about Bane. He wanted to destroy the city, but make it suffer, and make Bruce suffer while watching, and start a revolution, but keep the city hostage at the same time, and fulfill his love for Talia while doing something that doesn't really make sense (fulfill the mission of the man who exiled him, even if he saved his daughter). ==> AND he wanted to do all of this while you say there was no corruption in Gotham because of the Dent Act?

 

[Robin91939]

I love reading your posts about Rises, Robin91939.

I loved this film.

And while I will be the first to admit that it has flaws -- hardly any of the film's flaws are being attacked. Most of the complaints people have are simply things that the individual poster didn't understand in the film. I haven't run up against a question about the film that the film itself cannot supply an answer to.

It was truly a great film. It was unique. Just as The Dark Knight was unique from Batman Begins. But they were all terrific. I think the fact that this film felt, perhaps, more different rubbed some the wrong way. Some were, I think, expecting something more similar to the last installment.

But this film is so deep, and complex and dense. But it's not incomprehensible. All of the information is there. Just about everything is explained. My answer to most questions that I've seen will just have to be, "Go back and watch the film again." And honestly -- being made to watch the film again would be a privilege, not a punishment, lol.

But I'll continue to defend this film and to, sadly, explain this film. Probably until the Blu-Ray comes out and people have seen it multiple times and they can understand character motivation and plot because they catch that one crucial line they missed or see that shot that was framed artfully and specifically that cracks the code for them.

-R

 

[Travesty]

But this film is so deep, and complex and dense. But it's not incomprehensible. All of the information is there.
-R

Ehhh, totally disagree. Sure, you answred some questions here and there, but there are a TON of plot holes and inconsistencies that nobody could answer other than the Nolan Bros themselves.

I don't find the film to be deep at all, in fact, I think it's the least "deep" Nolan movie out there, which even includes Following.

 

[Avengers-Report]

I loved this film.

And while I will be the first to admit that it has flaws -- hardly any of the film's flaws are being attacked. Most of the complaints people have are simply things that the individual poster didn't understand in the film. I haven't run up against a question about the film that the film itself cannot supply an answer to.

It was truly a great film. It was unique. Just as The Dark Knight was unique from Batman Begins. But they were all terrific. I think the fact that this film felt, perhaps, more different rubbed some the wrong way. Some were, I think, expecting something more similar to the last installment.

But this film is so deep, and complex and dense. But it's not incomprehensible. All of the information is there. Just about everything is explained. My answer to most questions that I've seen will just have to be, "Go back and watch the film again." And honestly -- being made to watch the film again would be a privilege, not a punishment, lol.

But I'll continue to defend this film and to, sadly, explain this film. Probably until the Blu-Ray comes out and people have seen it multiple times and they can understand character motivation and plot because they catch that one crucial line they missed or see that shot that was framed artfully and specifically that cracks the code for them.

-R

No disrespect, but all you are doing is explaining plot details that happened in the film, and then acting like you're the only one that saw the film. We all saw what you saw. Just because the film explains something, that doesn't mean a certain scene or motive still can't make sense or be weak.

There's more to films than just typing out an explanation that occurs. Bane's motives might all be explained, but that doesn't mean they make much sense. From what I saw, he was trying to do a bunch of different things, and it took away from his intelligence. For example, with the boats the Joker wanted to prove people are willing to kill each other to save their own lives. Bane, in a similar situation, wanted to prove people can take their city back. But all he did was keep the city hostage, and then have an end game to blow up the entire city. The film explained all that, but it doesn't really make sense. At least the Joker's plan made sense, even if he was insane.

Furthermore, the film was incredibly rushed, things were obviously cut short and in the end, I think they just tried to fit too much into the film. Don't get me wrong, still loved it, but easily the weakest in the trilogy. I can't believe it got a 87% on RT, especially after the inevitable comparisons to TDK and BB.

 

[spideyguy16]

Hey, how did Blake know about Bruce being Bats?
This is bothering me. When blake and wayne first meet, it seemed like blake knew already, was his only reason to notify bruce based on gordons orders?

 

[Robin91939]

Great, I understand all of that. I saw the same movie as you. But you didn't address my second point and completely took what you responded too out of context.

In my opinion, the film's explanation and reasoning for Bane's motives is weak. And that is part of film's flaws. Bane's plan was all over the place. Blow up the city, start a revolution against the corrupt (in a city you claim is no longer corrupt, thanks to the Dent act), and finally he's doing something that doesn't really make any intellectual sense (fulfilling the wish of Ras, the man who exiled him for saving his own daughter's life), for love.

What was supposed to separate Bane from the Joker was his decisive intelligence. "It's all part of the plan". He had a plan, and wanted to execute it. However, the plan was weak in context, and at times he just seemed to be wanting different things.



Edit:

You see, that's the issue. Ras wanted to destroy Gotham because it was disgusting. His motives were intelligent in BB, he just had a different way to dealing with injustice. I don't feel the same way about Bane. He wanted to destroy the city, but make it suffer, and make Bruce suffer while watching, and start a revolution, but keep the city hostage at the same time, and fulfill his love for Talia while doing something that doesn't really make sense (fulfill the mission of the man who exiled him, even if he saved his daughter). ==> AND he wanted to do all of this while you say there was no corruption in Gotham because of the Dent Act?

Bane had a plan. And it wasn't to blow up the city.

Bane's plan was to give the control of the city to those he felt deserved it. The people.

He was against the greed that the wealthy and the powerful had. It wasn't out and out corruption, as in "corrupt cops" and the "mob" which the Dent Act DID stamp out. It was corruption in the form of capitalism. Where the poor are forgotten and disenfranchised, while the wealthy pick the city clean.

Bane said exactly what the bomb was being used for. "This is the instrument of your liberation." He didn't want to detonate the bomb. He doesn't want to blow up the city. The bomb was the leverage that he was giving the poor and the disenfranchised to take the power from the wealthy. He "gave the trigger to a regular citizen" so that the regular citizens would have the power over the ruling class.

Bane didn't want to watch Gotham's people suffer. He wanted watch those who used to run Gotham suffer. People who he thought were part of a broken system. Gordon, the Mayor and even Batman were included in this. That's why blew up the luxury boxes at the football game but left the regular fans unharmed. He encouraged the regular citizens to kick the rich out of their penthouses. Those who were being "judged" by Crane were all of the ruling class -- I saw no blue collar people falling through ice.

And Bane subscribed to the belief that it was his responsibility to restore order in Gotham because it was a belief held by Talia, the woman he loved. And it was a belief held by Ra's, a man he respected but whose approval he could never earn.

Bane gave Gotham the time limit on the bomb to force their hand. If they took control of their city in the allotted time he would have placed the bomb back and ruled over this new Gotham. But Gotham did NOT "take control," instead, many tried to take back control from Bane. And because of this -- the bomb's timer continued to tick down...

Bane had a pretty clear plan, and equally clear motivation.

-R

 

[Avengers-Report]

Bane had a plan. And it wasn't to blow up the city.

Bane's plan was to give the control of the city to those he felt deserved it. The people.

He was against the greed that the wealthy and the powerful had. It wasn't out and out corruption, as in "corrupt cops" and the "mob" which the Dent Act DID stamp out. It was corruption in the form of capitalism. Where the poor are forgotten and disenfranchised, while the wealthy pick the city clean.

Bane said exactly what the bomb was being used for. "This is the instrument of your liberation." He didn't want to detonate the bomb. He doesn't want to blow up the city. The bomb was the leverage that he was giving the poor and the disenfranchised to take the power from the wealthy. He "gave the trigger to a regular citizen" so that the regular citizens would have the power over the ruling class.

Bane didn't want to watch Gotham's people suffer. He wanted watch those who used to run Gotham suffer. That's why blew up the luxury boxes at the football game but left the regular fans unharmed. He encouraged the regular citizens to kick the rich out of their penthouses. Those who were being "judged" by Crane were all of the ruling class -- I saw no blue collar people falling through ice.

And Bane subscribed to the believe that it was his responsibility to restore order in Gotham because it was a belief held by Talia, the woman he loved. And it was a believe held by Ra's, a man he respected but whose approval he could never earn.

Bane gave Gotham the time limit on the bomb to force their hand. If they took control of their city in the allotted time he would have placed the bomb back and ruled over this new Gotham. But Gotham did NOT "take control," instead, many tried to take back control from Bane. And because of this -- the bomb's timer continued to tick down...

Bane had a pretty clear plan, and equally clear motivation.

-R

Um what? No. "The Fire Rises", referring the fire rising in Gotham's destruction. Bane, working for/with Talia, wanted to finish what her father started, the DESTRUCTION of Gotham. It was their end game all along. I wish Bane's plan was what you said it was, I wish there was more scenes with Gotham splitting apart and dividing, but the film rushed through it to get to the climax.

Plus, Talia even explained how making Gotham wait for it's destruction was like a slow knife that cuts deepest. Furthermore, they wanted to make Bruce watch the entire time. They had no plans of new order, or saving Gotham, it was destroying it....which in cause, brings up another question. Why didn't they pull the trigger earlier? Oh, because they wanted to make Gotham and Bruce suffer. Well in my opinion, that's just dumb.

 

[Robin91939]

No disrespect, but all you are doing is explaining plot details that happened in the film, and then acting like you're the only one that saw the film. We all saw what you saw. Just because the film explains something, that doesn't mean a certain scene or motive still can't make sense or be weak.

There's more to films than just typing out an explanation that occurs. Bane's motives might all be explained, but that doesn't mean they make much sense. From what I saw, he was trying to do a bunch of different things, and it took away from his intelligence. For example, with the boats the Joker wanted to prove people are willing to kill each other to save their own lives. Bane, in a similar situation, wanted to prove people can take their city back. But all he did was keep the city hostage, and then have an end game to blow up the entire city. The film explained all that, but it doesn't really make sense. At least the Joker's plan made sense, even if he was insane.

Furthermore, the film was incredibly rushed, things were obviously cut short and in the end, I think they just tried to fit too much into the film. Don't get me wrong, still loved it, but easily the weakest in the trilogy. I can't believe it got a 87% on RT, especially after the inevitable comparisons to TDK and BB.

I'm not sure we all did see the same thing. We have people asking the following:

-How did Bane know Bruce was Batman?
-How did Blake know Bruce was Batman?
-How did Alfred find Bruce in the end at the Cafe?
-How did Blake find the Batcave?

So on and so forth. MOST of the questions are basic and easily answered by watching the film. And when you are asking how Blake knew Batman was Bruce... and there is an entire scene dedicated to Blake telling Bruce how he knew... It makes me think you went to the bathroom at that moment. Or that you don't watch the screen and see the coordinates to the Batcave written on a piece of paper in the bag in Blake's passenger's seat.

Or you didn't hear Alfred's speech that he went to the same cafe every year, hoping to see Bruce... Clearly Bruce heard this and went there, waiting to see Alfred. (Plus the GPS in the pearls)....

But you are right, there are questions of motivations and character that can be debated.... But it's just -- patience wears thin when there are so many trivial, easily answered questions constantly asked that can be answered by watching the movie.

-R

 

[arkham.insayn]

Bane had a plan. And it wasn't to blow up the city.

Bane's plan was to give the control of the city to those he felt deserved it. The people.

He was against the greed that the wealthy and the powerful had. It wasn't out and out corruption, as in "corrupt cops" and the "mob" which the Dent Act DID stamp out. It was corruption in the form of capitalism. Where the poor are forgotten and disenfranchised, while the wealthy pick the city clean.

Bane said exactly what the bomb was being used for. "This is the instrument of your liberation." He didn't want to detonate the bomb. He doesn't want to blow up the city. The bomb was the leverage that he was giving the poor and the disenfranchised to take the power from the wealthy. He "gave the trigger to a regular citizen" so that the regular citizens would have the power over the ruling class.

Bane didn't want to watch Gotham's people suffer. He wanted watch those who used to run Gotham suffer. People who he thought were part of a broken system. Gordon, the Mayor and even Batman were included in this. That's why blew up the luxury boxes at the football game but left the regular fans unharmed. He encouraged the regular citizens to kick the rich out of their penthouses. Those who were being "judged" by Crane were all of the ruling class -- I saw no blue collar people falling through ice.

And Bane subscribed to the belief that it was his responsibility to restore order in Gotham because it was a belief held by Talia, the woman he loved. And it was a belief held by Ra's, a man he respected but whose approval he could never earn.

Bane gave Gotham the time limit on the bomb to force their hand. If they took control of their city in the allotted time he would have placed the bomb back and ruled over this new Gotham. But Gotham did NOT "take control," instead, many tried to take back control from Bane. And because of this -- the bomb's timer continued to tick down...

Bane had a pretty clear plan, and equally clear motivation.

-R

Great post

 

[Avengers-Report]

And I'm talking about overall motives in the film that don't really make sense. If you want plot holes/things that don't make sense, I can give you a ton.

1. Blake knowing who Batman was, and Bruce just telling him without even knowing him. It might have been explained, but that doesn't mean it makes any sense.
2. The cops having come out of an underground holding for 5 months looking clean shaved and not dirty at all, ready to fight.
3. Showing Batman in the Bat literally 3 seconds before a NUCLEAR explosion went off, then saying he got out in time.
4. The Bat traveling far enough away from Gotham, dragging a nuclear device, in like 30 seconds.
5. Batman having time to light a gas Batman signal in the sky, which inspired no one because everyone remained inside.

There are a ton of things I could list...

 

[Robin91939]

Um what? No. "The Fire Rises", referring the fire rising in Gotham's destruction. Bane, working for/with Talia, wanted to finish what her father started, the DESTRUCTION of Gotham. It was their end game all along. I wish Bane's plan was what you said it was, I wish there was more scenes with Gotham splitting apart and dividing, but the film rushed through it to get to the climax.

Plus, Talia even explained how making Gotham wait for it's destruction was like a slow knife that cuts deepest. Furthermore, they wanted to make Bruce watch the entire time. They had no plans of new order, or saving Gotham, it was destroying it....which in cause, brings up another question. Why didn't they pull the trigger earlier? Oh, because they wanted to make Gotham and Bruce suffer. Well in my opinion, that's just dumb.

See -- I don't think the plan was to just destroy the city. They wanted to reshape it. But they were prepared to die and prepared to take the city out if failure seemed possible, and people didn't cooperate. They wanted to make Bruce watch as he and the "old guard" (Gordon, Mayor Garcia, the Wayne Family, etc) lost control of Gotham and it fell into Bane's control.

But when the time came, and Talia and Bane saw that Gotham was never going to accept their new world order, the martyrs that they were -- had no choice but to destroy the city....and they wanted Bruce to live through it, die in it, and experience every death.

Again-- it's this kind of thing (a character's motivation) that can be discussed and debated all day...and I welcome this kind of debate -- because this is stimulating... but the complaints that the "movie sux" cause "xyz" when "xyz" were explicitly stated....that gets irritating.

-R

 

[Avengers-Report]

See -- I don't think the plan was to just destroy the city. They wanted to reshape it. But they were prepared to die and prepared to take the city out if failure seemed possible, and people didn't cooperate. They wanted to make Bruce watch as he and the "old guard" (Gordon, Mayor Garcia, the Wayne Family, etc) lost control of Gotham and it fell into Bane's control.

But when the time came, and Talia and Bane saw that Gotham was never going to accept their new world order, the martyrs that they were -- had no choice but to destroy the city....and they wanted Bruce to live through it, die in it, and experience every death.

Again-- it's this kind of thing (a character's motivation) that can be discussed and debated all day...and I welcome this kind of debate -- because this is stimulating... but the complaints that the "movie sux" cause "xyz" when "xyz" were explicitly stated....that gets irritating.

-R

You're argument is incredibly weak when it comes to the people of Gotham responding. Ok, so Blake and Gordon organized a group of like 20 people to fight back...in an ENTIRE CITY. Is that what you mean by Gotham not accepting Bane's new order? Because we never saw anything else from most of Gotham's citizens. It was more about Bane holding the city hostage, some random citizens putting Crane at a judge's table and sending the rich to exile, and Blake/Gordon's plan to get control of the bomb.

Plus, Talia explained her plan to destroy Gotham via her fathers wishes. That was explained explicitly, and Bane's involvement. That would explain their plan to make Bruce suffer while he spent almost half a year in a prison/hell watching as his city was going to be destroyed.

 

[Robin91939]

And I'm talking about overall motives in the film that don't really make sense. If you want plot holes/things that don't make sense, I can give you a ton.

1. Blake knowing who Batman was, and Bruce just telling him without even knowing him. It might have been explained, but that doesn't mean it makes any sense.
2. The cops having come out of an underground holding for 5 months looking clean shaved and not dirty at all, ready to fight.
3. Showing Batman in the Bat literally 3 seconds before a NUCLEAR explosion went off, then saying he got out in time.
4. The Bat traveling far enough away from Gotham, dragging a nuclear device, in like 30 seconds.
5. Batman having time to light a gas Batman signal in the sky, which inspired no one because everyone remained inside.

There are a ton of things I could list...

1.) Blake makes the connection from the story we hear about "an angry orphan putting on a happy face like a mask" and then when Bruce and Batman disappear for 8 years at the same time, it confirms it for him. In their initial meeting at Wayne Manor, Bruce denies that he's Batman, actually. It isn't until later, when Bruce is more desperate (out of money, etc) and Blake has proved that he is trust worthy, does Bruce confirm Blake's suspicion.

2.) The cops were being given supplies and food by Bane for the months that they were down there. We even see Bane's mercs lowering a shipment of supplies to them. Who's to say if there were razors in there, however unlikely that is.

3.) Could be a cheat by Nolan, showing him in the Bat then the clock... or... Like the Batpod was essentially the cockpit of the Tumbler that ejected, maybe the shot we see of Batman, that last shot we see, is him in the ejected cockpit and he is safely far away from the bomb that we see in the next shot with the clock at 5 seconds.... Maybe Batman was already in the clear? And the Bat was on autopilot?

4.) There were about 2 minutes when he started towing the bomb away. I don't know the math as to how fast he had to be traveling.... but he had to cover 6 miles. Who knows? I could say suspension of disbelieve -- but I don't honestly know the top speed of the Bat.

5.) Having the time? He did it -- clearly had the time. And we saw it inspire people. From the people in the windows knowing that their hero was back -- to seeing Bane react with the appropriate shock to seeing a character like Foley join the final fight.

I'm off to bed. This has been fun. I understand that you liked the movie, and I'm with you -- it has it's flaws... But I think it's getting a bum rap with some of these "flaws."

-R

 

[BatFan#1]

Bruce doing squat for 8 years

The stupid knee cartilage thing--how'd that problem get there?

Fixing Bruce's back by simply knocking a vertebrate in.

The government doing nothing for 3 months while a city is held by a terrorist

The whole time watching that I was under the impression that the cane Bruce used was part of his cover so no one would suspect him as Batman. Catwoman touches on this saying something like, im no more a thief then you are a cripple. Meaning she at least had some knowledge on him.

Also, maybe I'm stretching it here but I also thought that the cartilage report was a fake to further cover Batman's identity. Batman's main concern was to go to the hospital that Gordon was in. A showing of fake test results would certainly be feasible cover for Bruce to see Gordon.(I think anyway, might have scenes confused)

I mean if Bruce was really that messed up he wouldn't have lasted 2 seconds against Bane. This doesn't explain the batman leg brace but maybe he did actually sustain some sort of injury. But I dont think Bruce was really that damaged or weakened. It also explains how fast Bruce was able to regain his form to be able to beat Bane. This is just the impression the film gave me, or maybe I am giving Nolan too much credit.

 

[Robin91939]

You're argument is incredibly weak when it comes to the people of Gotham responding. Ok, so Blake and Gordon organized a group of like 20 people to fight back...in an ENTIRE CITY. Is that what you mean by Gotham not accepting Bane's new order? Because we never saw anything else from most of Gotham's citizens. It was more about Bane holding the city hostage, some random citizens putting Crane at a judge's table and sending the rich to exile, and Blake/Gordon's plan to get control of the bomb.

That's the point though... The normal citizens DID NOTHING. They didn't try to stop Bane, and they didn't join him. They hid. They did NOT take control...so they did not join his new world order.

Plus, Talia explained her plan to destroy Gotham via her fathers wishes. That was explained explicitly, and Bane's involvement. That would explain their plan to make Bruce suffer while he spent almost half a year in a prison/hell watching as his city was going to be destroyed.

Destroying Gotham didn't always have to mean "blowing it up." Destroying Gotham could just mean destroying the status quo of what Gotham was -- which was what they did. And Bruce and his company and his alter ego of Batman being largely behind that status quo -- seeing it destroyed and turned over to the likes of the League of Shadows would certainly make Bruce suffer. And once they completed their mission -- they would kill him, repaying him for murdering her father.

-R