What is it you people really want?

What did Jane want for the movie?

A serious noir action/crime drama, with the inherent blood and guts. And wanted Walter Hill to direct it, he's got the resume to pull off a gritty urban crime film with plenty of gun play.
 
All that being said, I actually like the 04 movie! I really do! It takes a lot from Welcome Back Frank, which had a lot of whacky humor throughout, so I can appreciate that. What I can't understand is why people give the new one such a hard time and at the same time can embrace the 04 movie as the be-all-end-all of Punisher films!

Here's the thing, the '04 movie isn't the be-all-end-all of Punisher films for me. I liked it, it wasn't the greatest movie of all time, but it was ok. The sequel coul definitely have improved on a lot of things.

The only things I don't like about the new movie so far are the really fake looking deaths, the over the top scenes like smashing someone's face in, the chandelier and the really, really, really obvious B-Movie vibe.

At the end of the day War Zone might be the superior Punisher movie, but so far it just doesn't look all that great.
 
And you gotta respect Tom Jane for almost breaking his neck launching him self through that wall. And the explosion look real, because all of them were real, right down to setting a stunt man on fire and launching him through the air.

Lexi Alexander is for all intents and purposes considered a C-list director by most. So that's not surprising.

You keep stating that S Grundy but really lets look at Lexi's Portfolio...Hooligans thats it, and it was not reamed by critics + I believe came out in limited release. Can you really be so determined that this movie is gonna be bad off that? I mean I like del toro, but I thought Blade II sucked compared to the 1st, I like his other stuff. We will see but I cant figure out why you seem to have your mind made up that Lexi and her direction is bad. I think I can safely say this will be her 1st major distributed theatre film. James Cameron started with Piranaha II flying killers, lets give Lexi a fair shot.

Lets not forget how many movies we can say looked cool in previews then sucked. I really bought Jane as the Punisher and would have loved to seem him carry more films, but if he was so keen on a direction maybe he should have taken the seat himself.
 
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I thought Hooligans was fairly bad, her Punisher script was fairly bad, and the previews for Punisher: War Zone look fairly bad. Add her comment on how Castle can't work in a realistic gritty crime film, and it's pretty easy.
 
Did you buy the 04 as being a realistic gritty crime film? I mean it is a comic, I guess I dont see what people want either. I would rather see it done this way as opposed to him teaming up with ghost rider...if we wanted to go page by page. Maybe we should have started the movie off with Punisher in spiderman..Punisher taking a few shots at spiderman for the deceptive jackal....
 
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It was grounded in a believable world for the most part. It does have the weird but great Harry Heck scene and the fight with the Russian which is about as over the top as the movie gets. And even with that Castle wasn't some Superman while fighting the Russian, he got the **** knocked out of him good.

And who the **** is talking about having him team up with Ghost Rider or Spider-Man?
 
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No point, other then I guess im not sure what people want with this film
 
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A serious noir action/crime drama, with the inherent blood and guts. And wanted Walter Hill to direct it, he's got the resume to pull off a gritty urban crime film with plenty of gun play.
I can see them trying to do that now to play off the Dark Knight's success, but it's different saying it and actually pulling it off.

It was grounded in a believable world for the most part.
Yeah, but it was still lame beyond belief. The family execution scene, the big 'battle' at the end where he slowly walks through the room taking shotgun blast after shotgun blast, the way it moved along at a snail's crawl while Castle went to news conferences and what have you...

There's really nothing to show from that movie that says Thomas Jane and crew could have made a better movie.
 
I can see them trying to do that now to play off the Dark Knight's success, but it's different saying it and actually pulling it off.

Well, if the scripts had been good and Hill was allowed to direct, it would have been out before The Dark Knight so there would be no comparison.

And Walter Hill isn't Jonathan Hensleigh, different director means a different type of movie. Where as the 2004 film was in the vein of 70s films (right down to like you said the slower pace) it was a spaghetti western. What Jane said he wanted to do was make it more of a noir action film. Different crew, different movie.

And the last battle, the guy let the claymore do the work for him. You don't need to run around in a room where people are for the most part lying down and injured.
 
But if a lot of people didn't see it, then how would a lot of people know if it sucked? A lot of people saw the Halloween remake and a lot of people thought it sucked. A lot of people didn't see The Thing when it first came out, and now it's considered a classic. I'm not trying to argue with you though, I'm just pointing out the flaw in your statement.

genius personified. hope you get a nomination for the nobel prize. :cwink:
 
I loved Tom Jane's portrayal of the Punisher. The 2004 movie is far from perfect, but to me changing the origin aside, had the heart of the character down perfectly. People tend to forget that when the movie was being written and filmed, we didn't have the MAX series. We had the goofy Marvel Knights series. That's where the dark humor of Bumpo and Spacker Dave come in to play.

I was pissed with changing out Jane as the Punisher, but Stevenson grows on me. He seems like he can pull of the newest incarnation of the Punisher. Casting is the only thing this movie has going for it in my opinion. I think Lexi went to over the top with the violence and the lighting. Just from the few clips we have seen it seems every scene is this unnatural light with the yellows, reds and whatever else. I'm sorry but the punch to the face is ridiculous. To prove a point, I did a little research into what Castle does when punching the eye sockets like that.
What he causes when punching the eye area is called Maxillary Fractures LeFort III. With what I was reading this is the closet to the trauma that was caused when Frank punched ink in the face. There are three stages of LeFort Fractures. The third being the most devastating. There are also 2 types of non LeFort Fractures. These are less severe than LeFort I.
Two types of non–Le Fort maxillary fractures of note are relatively common. First, limited and very focused blunt trauma may result in small, isolated fracture segments. Often, a hammer or other instrument is the causative weapon. In particular, the alveolar ridge, maxillary sinus anterior wall, and nasomaxillary junction, by virtue of their accessibility, are common sites of such injury. Second, submental forces directed superiorly may result in several discrete vertical fractures through various horizontal bony supports such as the alveolar ridge, infraorbital rim, and zygomatic arches.

Unlike with fractures in other bones, muscle forces do not play a significant role in the final position of the broken bony segments. While several muscles attach to the maxillary framework, they typically insert to skin and therefore do not lead to additional deformity. Instead, the basis for the patterns of maxillary fractures depends on 2 predominant factors.

First, as Le Fort described, the location, direction, and energy of the impact result in different injuries. Second, the anatomy of the mid face is oriented to provide strength and support to protect against injury. Vertical and horizontal bony bolstering in the face absorbs the energy of traumatic force. This serves to protect the more vital intracranial contents from damage during trauma. Knowledge of the characteristics of the traumatic blow combined with an understanding of the anatomic bolstering in the face can help the clinician approach such injury in a logical and systematic fashion. A detailed description of the bony maxillary framework is presented in Relevant Anatomy.

Pretty much what it is saying is that with the damage Frank caused on his face is basically the same thing as being hit by a sledge hammer going 30 miles an hour.

But it's a movie and it's supposed to look cool. To bad it failed.

Lexi made it look like a 1980's Action Channel made for tv movie. I can live with the chandelier thing and the floor sliding and the jumping across the rooftop because it's a movie. You have got to keep the audience entertained. I just think she tried to put to much of the comic book into it and made it a laughing cliche of itself.
You mean just like the 04 film:hehe:Before you can say it's a laughing cliche,I think it's best to watch it first.:yay:
 
Well what I want is a good crime drama.
Well you might want to watch Taxi Driver.Because the Punisher comics are eye candy action with a good story mix with crime and drama.That what's cast and crew is aiming for with PWZ:yay:
 
You mean just like the 04 film:hehe:Before you can say it's a laughing cliche,I think it's best to watch it first.:yay:

I know a fart stinks just by the smell. I don't need to smell a person's crap to make sure of it.
 
And the last battle, the guy let the claymore do the work for him. You don't need to run around in a room where people are for the most part lying down and injured.

You do when it's been a boring snoozefest up until then and the audience is dying for action. Except you and Kable I guess. You guys must have been having a blast, but up until then there hadn't been a lot of consistant action. And then end didn't really deliver in that department either.
 
The wonderful things about opinions is the only one that matters is your own.
 
Woah, I didn't even know who you were for a second with that new avatar.
 
Well you might want to watch Taxi Driver.Because the Punisher comics are eye candy action with a good story mix with crime and drama.That what's cast and crew is aiming for with PWZ

Have you ever read a MAX book at all, those are crime drama stories, when reading "The Slavers" I don't see anything in that as eye candy action. If that's what the crew was aiming for I think they failed.
 
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In the first book, there's the Pittsy fight, plus the massacre at the mansion.

In Kitchen Irish, he takes out some 30-40 guys on an aircraft carrier.

I haven't read Up is Down, Black is White yet, or Mother Russia, Barracuda or Widowmaker, but Long Cold Dark has a Hulk vs. Abomination-eque fight in the woods, plus tons of over the top gunplay.

Slavers is a good example to show Castle in a crime drama, but it certainly isn't the best example of how MAX Punisher usually is.
 
Yeah, as much as I love Slavers it's definitely the most "crime-drama" style book in the MAX series so far. Either that or Man of Stone.

Other than that, most of the arcs have had over the top violence.

1) In the Beginning - This whole arc was over the top, but Frank vs No-Face Pitsy takes the cake.
2) Kitchen Irish - The central villain is an Irish terrorist without a face. There is tons of violence in this arc and dark humor.
3) Mother Russia - Can you say "Frank swings a small Chinese man into various office supplies by his ankles"? Next topic!
4) Up is Down/Black is White - Pitsy's crazy man-thing sister as well as Frank mowing down like 50 people in a strip club.
5) Slavers - Yeah, this one was darker and serious and had less over-the-top violence.
6) Barracuda - I don't even have to explain.
7) Man of Stone - Another dark and serious arc, though to be honest I found this one to be a little boring.
8) Widowmaker - A chick dons the Punisher costume, and Frank is bested by a bunch of housewives. Errmmm...
9) Long Cold Dark: see Baracuda.

I've yet to read Valley Forge because I get the trades, but the violence in MAX has been pretty consistent and often is over the top, just like the violence in PWZ.

My argument for this film has always been that they are marketing the violence heavily because that's what people want to see; but that doesn't mean that the character development isn't there in the film itself. Will it be as dark and serious as "The Slavers"? Probably not, but most people probably wouldn't want to see that kind of story in a Punisher film...they want to see Frank Castle kick all kinds of ass.

Me? I'd take a combination of both...action and character. In my opinion, it looks like that just might be what we're getting.
 
I'm not against the over-the-top violence, I would have loved it if they didn't ****** up the mansion massacre and kept the fight with Pittsy, I also would have preferred there be smidgen of believability to the violence and that it didn't come off as so cartoonish. Add on that most of the things about this movie seem just wrong to me, wrong script, wrong director, wrong visual style.
 
Do you like it? Because, personally I think your last avatar was pretty cool.

I've yet to read Valley Forge because I get the trades
It's out in trade now though. Go go go! They'll probably still have some stocked in at your local comic book store, I think it came out about 2 weeks ago?
 

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