What Is The Right Religion?

[Kritish]

Uh...time had a beginning. This is pretty much accepted among the scientific community, physicists in particular.

Yep

 

[Abaddon]

only fools are enslaved by time and space.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Uh...time had a beginning. This is pretty much accepted among the scientific community, physicists in particular.

Time only exists in conscious space, not unconscious space. The only reason it's "accepted" is because the only way to observe something scientifically (or any way for that matter) is consciously.

And just so we're clear Space-time (which deals with General Relativity) and time are two different animals.

 

[Carcharodon]

Time only exists in conscious space, not unconscious space. The only reason it's "accepted" is because the only way to observe something scientifically (or any way for that matter) is consciously.

The fact that things happen would seem to refute that idea; perhaps the measurement of time is an arbitrary construct, but without a time-space continuum, we couldn't even be having this conversation.

 

[Leto Atrides]

There's a big difference between being a diest and being a Christian.

I was answering that quote stating "Most Founding Fathers were Irreligious or Atheist." Most were Anglicans of varying piety, a minority were theistic but not Christan, and only one was arguably atheist. I wasn't talking about Christianity specifically.

The "Founding Fathers" were a big group of people, the fact that the ones that the ones everyone thinks of now like Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin weren't Christian doesn't mean most weren't. Also, the point of Desim is that they believed God created the Universe, so there's no point in citing Deists as allies in the quest against religion or whatever.

Like I said I am an atheist, so I'm not trying to promote believing in a god, I just don't seeing people using people the same out and out fallacies again and again in debates.

On a similar note, whoever said Hitler was Catholic he wasn't. And though LaVeyan Satanists (the majority of people who call themselves "Satanists") don't actually worship the Satan, there are some people who actually do.

 

[The Chairman]

I was answering that quote stating "Most Founding Fathers were Irreligious or Atheist." Most were Anglicans of varying piety, a minority were theistic but not Christan, and only one was arguably atheist. I wasn't talking about Christianity specifically.

The "Founding Fathers" were a big group of people, the fact that the ones that the ones everyone thinks of now like Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin weren't Christian doesn't mean most weren't. Also, the point of Desim is that they believed God created the Universe, so there's no point in citing Deists as allies in the quest against religion or whatever.

Like I said I am an atheist, so I'm not trying to promote believing in a god, I just don't seeing people using people the same out and out fallacies again and again in debates.

On a similar note, whoever said Hitler was Catholic he wasn't. And though LaVeyan Satanists (the majority of people who call themselves "Satanists") don't actually worship the Satan, there are some people who actually do.

Yes, he was. There was a thread where his gneral entries confirming his being a Christian were presented.

 

[Speedball]

Yes, he was. There was a thread where his gneral entries confirming his being a Christian were presented.

That doesn't make him Catholic though.
Probably Lutheran or Calvinist, not Catholic.

 

[The Chairman]

That doesn't make him Catholic though.
Probably Lutheran or Calvinist, not Catholic.

It is a common fact that Hitler was Roman Catholic.

 

[Speedball]

It is a common fact that Hitler was Roman Catholic.

Well okay then.
I just know that he had jewish relatives and believed in the Occult and also worshipped the Norse Gods.
And him being Catholic doesn't make the rest of us evil.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

The fact that things happen would seem to refute that idea; perhaps the measurement of time is an arbitrary construct, but without a time-space continuum, we couldn't even be having this conversation.

Events may proceed one another but it does not necessarily mean they have a beginning, middle and end. They may, in fact just have a middle.

ANTHONYNASTI posed the problem that the big bang is problematic because he assumed that time existed outside of the conscious Universe, the Universe we preceive, which was created by the Big Bang. But it doesn't. It's illusory, and in effect is like asking what's north of north, the question cannot be answered. There is this Universe and then there is other subuniverses below and above us, some that are not subject to change and time....haven't you read M theory and String Theory at all?

 

[The Chairman]

Well okay then.
I just know that he had jewish relatives and believed in the Occult and also worshipped the Norse Gods.
And him being Catholic doesn't make the rest of us evil.

Umm....I'm Catholic.

 

[Carcharodon]

Events may preceed one another but it does not necessarily mean they have a beginning, middle and end. They may, in fact just have a middle.

ANTHONYNASTI posed the problem that the big bang is problematic because he assumed that time existed outside of the conscious Universe, the Universe we preceive, which was created by the Big Bang. But it doesn't. It's illusory, and in effect is like asking what's north of north, the question cannot be answered. There is this Universe and then there is other subuniverses below and above us, some that are not subject to change and time....haven't you read M theory and String Theory at all?

Yes, I have: I never said that time existed outside of our own universe, did I? I contend, like many, that time began at the point of the Big Bang, at least for our own universe. That's all I'm arguing.

 

[Speedball]

Umm....I'm Catholic.

LOL! Okay then.
I haven't read this whole thread, I just saw Hitler and Catholic, and my hate for the man overwhelmed me.

 

[The Chairman]

LOL! Okay then.
I haven't read this whole thread, I just saw Hitler and Catholic, and my hate for the man overwhelmed me.

Yeah. But a lot of cool people are / were Catholic, too, so I can deal with Hitler.

 

[Leto Atrides]

Yes, he was. There was a thread where his gneral entries confirming his being a Christian were presented.

His parents were Catholic; he pointedly rejected their faith and made a point of not going to Mass, etc. once he moved out. I don't know if he was Christian or not, but he rejected and didn't like Catholicism.

 

[The Chairman]

His parents were Catholic; he pointedly rejected their faith and made a point of not going to Mass, etc. once he moved out. I don't know if he was Christian or not, but he rejected and didn't like Catholicism.

Well, Catholic or Christian (Catholic is a form of Christianity), he was not an atheist as commonly perceived.

 

[Leto Atrides]

Well, Catholic or Christian (Catholic is a form of Christianity), he was not an atheist as commonly perceived.

I know that, I used to be Catholic. But he pointedly didn't like Catholicism. In fact, he was a proponent of a revisionist Christianity that made it look like Jesus was anti-semitic: Positive Christianity. Being Catholic could be cited as a reason for sending you to a concentration camp for God's sake.

The different denominations of Christianity are practically different religions. I don't know about other people, but I think acting as if they are the same is misleading at best.

 

[The Chairman]

I know that, I used to be Catholic. But he pointedly didn't like Catholicism. In fact, he was a proponent of a revisionist Christianity that made it look like Jesus was anti-semitic: Positive Christianity. Being Catholic could be cited as a reason for sending you to a concentration camp for God's sake.

The different denominations of Christianity are practically different religions. I don't know about other people, but I think acting as if they are the same is misleading at best.

I HATE the denomations. We shouldn't let minor differences split Christians apart. At the end of the day, we still follow the same God, we follow the same commandments and the same book.

 

[Leto Atrides]

I HATE the denomations. We shouldn't let minor differences split Christians apart. At the end of the day, we still follow the same God, we follow the same commandments and the same book.

That sounds like Protestant get-together hippy talk to me there boy. What are you, one them god dang Baptists?

But seriously, (and this is just discussion now, I'm not trying to prove correctness) I always had a problem with the "we're all Christians" thing since that's half true for Jews too, they have the same God, same Commandmants, half of the same Bible.

Plenty of scripture is up to interpretation, and denominations end up being different sets of interpretation. It's just people who agree grouping together. While this is certainly no reason to fight each other, you're disagreeing, there's no particular reason you have to be buddy buddy any more so than with other religions either.

What I'm saying is I've always seen all different religions as a continuum, with grouping just useful as a historical thing for religious studies. The whole thing "we're all the same" thing seems a bit artificial. The Protestants are all derived from each other, they're from the Catholics, the Catholics are split into Roman, the Orthodox chuches, etc., Catholics are one of the groups from the original expansion of Christianity, Muslims broke from Early Christianity, Early Christians broke off of the Jews, and so on. I didn't see any grouping better than others.

 

[Rorschach II]

Gnostic Christianity.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

But what caused that shift? And how did that glaxy get there? Both religion and science leave too many unanswered questions for either one to be more correct than the other.

remember kids, when there's a phenomenon in the universe you can't explain, god did it.
I can imagine back in the dark ages.

sickness? god did it
the tides? god did it
the moon? god did it


so yeah....awesome stuff, for serious.

and remember , questioning anything, and thinking it might not be god is the work of the devil.
so those doctors that questioned illness and can treat cancer and stuff?

yeah, Satan did that.


goooooooooooooooooooooooo Satan!!!

 

[XtromaniaK]

Um, most of the founding fathers were religious. Some of the more well known ones were Deists, i.e., they believe in God, just not specifically. Jefferson was the only one known to be nonreligious, and he held Jesus up as history's greatest philosopher. This argument is really flawed, I wish people would stop making it.

I'm an atheist too. Not so much you, but Smirnoff and Barbossa are being asses and making us look bad. I say everyone just abandon this thread as ill-conceived and move on.

Did you even read the quotes or are you too much of a dullard that you can't handle something that simple? Most of them WEREN'T religious. They were either atheists or deists. That's not religious, religious is prescribing to an established view of god, which deism and atheism are NOT. I wish people would.. FACT ****ING CHECK.

It's quite easy to comprehend that the Founding Fathers were the people who had the most sway in the direction of the country's government and foundation. A.K.A. Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Adams, George Washington, Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin.. none of whom were religious in any contemporary form.

 

[Leto Atrides]

Did you even read the quotes or are you too much of a dullard that you can't handle something that simple? Most of them WEREN'T religious. They were either atheists or deists. That's not religious, religious is prescribing to an established view of god, which deism and atheism are NOT. I wish people would.. FACT ****ING CHECK.

It's quite easy to comprehend that the Founding Fathers were the people who had the most sway in the direction of the country's government and foundation. A.K.A. Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Adams, George Washington, Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin.. none of whom were religious in any contemporary form.

Calm down and stop name calling. I read all of the quotes, and all of them except Jefferson's are critical of religious establishments in general or Christianity specifically, or is supportive of Deism. That has nothing to do with atheism.

Deism isn't conventional now, nor was it that popular at the time, but it was a set of beliefs about the divine held by a group of people; that's a religion. Know what, since we're fact checking, here you go:

Dictionary.com - religion
1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies

How does a bunch of people in a tradition for centuries saying "God created the universe to work perfectly" not fit into this definition? Also, it's also obviously not atheistic.

Jefferson was the only one that's possibly atheist, and even then it's debated and it's believed he considered himself a deist.

And the "Founding Fathers" have been historically defined as the men who signed the Declaration of Independence and/or Constitution and/or were just heroes of the revolution like Ethan Allen. It's not just the top few people that are on our money.

Many, not necessarily most, of these men certainly didn't like organized religion and spoke out against it. But to quote them and use their words as justification for atheism is a misrepresentation.

For Christ's sake there are how many people famous atheists that you could be quoting. Go find some stuff from Richard Dawkins or something if you're really in the mood for debating people, don't use very dubious imprecise statement that are really against dogma and religious establishment.

 

[french joker]

The Church of Fonzie !

 

[WhatsHisFace]

Benjamin Franklin was a Quaker.