BvS What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

[Rodrigo90]

Asking Superman to deal with the Al Qaeda, Taliban, the Syrian gas attack, is lazy/dirty work, whatever.

Asking him to help take down the Batman, on American soil, isn't really dirty work...

 

[CharlieS]

Asking Superman to deal with the Al Qaeda, Taliban, the Syrian gas attack, is lazy/dirty work, whatever.

Asking him to help take down the Batman, on American soil, isn't really dirty work...

Now Superman is Rambo oh God.

 

[CharlieS]

Jeez is not a Tom Clancy or a James Bond movie it's a superhero movie.

 

[CharlieS]

What Al Qaeda has to do with comics book?

 

[Rodrigo90]

Okay.

An example. Batman is causing trouble for the Government, in some fashion. Like he did in TDKRETURNS. He was, in his own words, a "political liability". He was a wanted man.

Without the request, Superman would help then. Siding with the them, and opposing, Batman. Yeah?

 

[CharlieS]

Okay.

An example. Batman is causing trouble for the Government, in some fashion. Like he did in TDKRETURNS. He was, in his own words, a "political liability". He was a wanted man.

Without the request, Superman would help then. Siding with the them, and opposing, Batman. Yeah?

 

[Rodrigo90]

Not even a terrorist planning to bomb the White House?

 

[CharlieS]

Not even a terrorist planning to bomb the White House?

Jeez Al Qaeda has nothing to do with this.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I meant hypothetically.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Looking over my favourite stories, which are character studies of Batman...He is very much traumatised.

When Bruce is Batman, he's a different person. When not, he's a broken man, that has no other choice but to suck it up and continue.

Batman is a suppressant for his mental anguish. Miller has shown that. Look at him in retirement. He's tortured. He's traumatized when he hear's of all the crimes going on in the city. To the point of it driving him mad.
Look at Englehart's "Night of The Stalker".
He relentlessly hunts down a killer who's left a child orphaned. And by the end, Bruce breaks down in tears for the child and for himself.
When Bruce was accused of murder and subsequently arrested. He was going mad inside the prison cell, because he had no outlet as Batman.

I like it when writers play up this side, because it makes the most sense when looking at it from a psychological POV.
Even in Batman: MOTP. He pleads with his parents...at their graves. Without Batman acting as sort of a mental suppressant, Bruce is a mess.
He sits around in the cave, and fazes out in his imagination, reliving the haunting memories. That is a man, traumatized.
He's a man, living out his boyhood fantasy.
He's still a traumatized child, emotionally devastated from the sudden and harsh loss of his parents.
Where he believes that they can hear and see the man he is from the great beyond. This is also a reason why I believe he won't kill and abides by morals and rules. No religious themes has really talked about in Batman's character. But I can gather, through his mental state, that he believes, if he's a good boy, he'll one day be reunited with his parents.
I'm sure of it, since he visits and talks to their graves.

I can go on about his mental state. All what I said is my interpretation based on a lot of different writers have presented over the years.

But I think it's safe to say, consistently, Bruce Wayne is a very traumatized man. Who, in spite of that, pushes on and keeps himself strong, with every stumble or fall he has.

 

[CharlieS]

 

[Rodrigo90]

I needed to express myself

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Looking over my favourite stories, which are character studies of Batman...He is very much traumatised.

When Bruce is Batman, he's a different person. When not, he's a broken man, that has no other choice but to suck it up and continue.

Batman is a suppressant for his mental anguish. Miller has shown that. Look at him in retirement. He's tortured. He's traumatized when he hear's of all the crimes going on in the city. To the point of it driving him mad.
Look at Englehart's "Night of The Stalker".
He relentlessly hunts down a killer who's left a child orphaned. And by the end, Bruce breaks down in tears for the child and for himself.
When Bruce was accused of murder and subsequently arrested. He was going mad inside the prison cell, because he had no outlet as Batman.

I like it when writers play up this side, because it makes the most sense when looking at it from a psychological POV.
Even in Batman: MOTP. He pleads with his parents...at their graves. Without Batman acting as sort of a mental suppressant, Bruce is a mess.
He sits around in the cave, and fazes out in his imagination, reliving the haunting memories. That is a man, traumatized.
He's a man, living out his boyhood fantasy.
He's still a traumatized child, emotionally devastated from the sudden and harsh loss of his parents.
Where he believes that they can hear and see the man he is from the great beyond. This is also a reason why I believe he won't kill and abides by morals and rules. No religious themes has really talked about in Batman's character. But I can gather, through his mental state, that he believes, if he's a good boy, he'll one day be reunited with his parents.
I'm sure of it, since he visits and talks to their graves.

I can go on about his mental state. All what I said is my interpretation based on a lot of different writers have presented over the years.

But I think it's safe to say, consistently, Bruce Wayne is a very traumatized man. Who, in spite of that, pushes on and keeps himself strong, with every stumble or fall he has.

Personally, nobody will ever come close to how Grant Morrison writes both Batman and Superman.

Bruce retains his traumatised, fractured psyche that so many tried to emulate after Miller, but failed and pretty much ruined the 90's and 00's for Batman comics. In fact nobody has come close to such a good character study for Batman since Batman: Arkham Asylum- A Serious House On a Serious Earth. Exploring whether Bruce truly is as crazy as the villains he faces, or righteous in his quest for vengeance is better to me over Miller's version who quite clearly leans more towards deranged.

Also, he's not just a weathered soul who is resigned to being Batman. He knows he's a billionaire, a desirable philanthropic playboy, he knows that he hooks up with beautiful femme fatales, and that he gets to use rockets, flying cars, and gadgets. He knows that despite all of the bad things that accompany the mission, a lot of the things he does is just downright cool: "James Bond? Oh no, I'm much cooler than he is".

However, obviously the long lasting scars are still there, he's haunted by the death of his parents, when he realised everybody dies, the imagery of the bat and how ruthless he was when began his mission as one of vengeance over his parents rather than one of justice to prevent similar tragedies. But those aren't the things that define him, he's always defined himself by the relationships he keeps (which is why at the end of each "chapter" he is rescued by a Robin).

He's the ultimate in secular humanism and prepares his body and mind for any eventuality he can think of. That is what Batman should be.

Grant Morrison's view can best be summed up with the quote:

"Batman fights death, Superman fights the impossible."

 

[Rodrigo90]

Agreed.

I like Morrison's take a lot.
Batman has had his mind explored and thrown in dark places within his stories. And Morrison alway casts it in a sure way by the end. That no matter what negative experience Batman is going through, he'll get through it and feel a little stronger.

There's always a positive feeling.

 

[CharlieS]

Miller's Batman is crazy, i don't like that version of batman, he looks like a maniac in all star Batman and Robin.

 

[CharlieS]

I think TDKReturns was ok but i hope they will not portray Batman as a maniac in the film.

 

[Brother Jack]

Miller's Batman is crazy, i don't like that version of batman, he looks like a maniac in all star Batman and Robin.

The Batman in that book is not the same Batman that's in DKR. You've got 20 years in between those comics for Miller to lose his mind and his artistic integrity.

 

[CharlieS]

The Batman in that book is not the same Batman that's in DKR. You've got 20 years in between those comics for Miller to lose his mind and his artistic integrity.

That's why i said TDKReturns was ok.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Miller took 'lunacy' to a whole different level there.

Batman in TDKRETURNS at least had his heart in the right place.

 

[CharlieS]

I hope Batman will be portrayed as the World's Greatest Detective and that he will be a great martial artist .

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Miller took 'lunacy' to a whole different level there.

Batman in TDKRETURNS at least had his heart in the right place.

Some of the time

"Something told me to stop at the leg. I IGNORE it"

 

[Batmannerism]

The Batman in that book is not the same Batman that's in DKR. You've got 20 years in between those comics for Miller to lose his mind and his artistic integrity.

Couldn't agree more. Batman in DKR was a tight and compelling character, with deep psychological scars and flaws - and despite all that, the reader ends up cheering for him (even against Superman, who arguably is only doing what he thinks is right).

But DKSA is a different Batman, without pity, without warmth - he's a crazy Bastard. But that isn't what really pisses me off about DKSA, here's the thing,
what made DKR so absolutely brilliant, is that it's the END OF BATMAN.
Sure the legend lives on, but the man steps aside. It was a wonderful finish
to one of the best comic book characters of all time.

So, it's a great ending.....until the ****ing sequel !!!! The whole point was having an END to the Batman story, so having a sequel where he becomes Batman again craps all over that.

How could Miller not see that ? This is the guy who wrote Elektra Assassin, another of my favourite comic books of all time -even today it pushes the boundaries. How could he ruin his arguably greatest creation.

It would have been like Michaelangelo painting the cistine chapel (which I've seen, it's amazing) and then repainting over the central mural in stick figures. Or Da Vinci painting the Mona Lisa, and then painting over her face with a frown.

Mind you, this is also the man who brought us "The spirit" arguably the worst superhero film of all time !

to paraphrase Jor-El said in MOS
"I will honour the man Miller once was, not this monster he's become."


Anyway, I still don't think that DKR has many appropriate features that would work in a Batman-Superman film, where they meet for the first time.
And I just can't see Affleck as Miller's Batman (not physically, not tonally).
Maybe some of the style, or the depiction of Gotham or Jim Gordon, but otherwise no. And for the love of God, please, nothing from DKSA !

Having said that, I loved what Snyder did with Miller's 300 - but a Batman/Superman film has to have a bit more heart than that, it's not just a festival of ass-kicking.

let's hope they get it right.

 

[CharlieS]

TDkReturns was a ok but the way Superman was portrayed was really bad. Superman was really dumb in that comic book, at least Superman had a purpose in TDKSA even TDKSA was really bad.

 

[CharlieS]

I just hope that Superman will not be portrayed as a government puppet like he was portrayed in TDKReturns.

 

[super85]

Some of the time

"Something told me to stop at the leg. I IGNORE it"

To be honest that guy had it coming. I agree with Batman's decision .