What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

Discussion in 'Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice' started by smallville fan, Oct 3, 2013.

  1. Rodrigo90

    Rodrigo90 Wink wink ;)

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    Oldman's take was very mousey and meek. He was always tough inside, of course. He was like a quiet schoolkid, surrounded by baduns, raging to break out inside. Probably throughout most of his Cop career, he had to keep his down to avoid trouble. Then when Batman turned up, he found his strengths that had long been suppressed.

    Cranston, with just his voice, was a different Gordon. He was certainly stronger. But they had things in common where Batman was involved.
     
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  2. Rodrigo90

    Rodrigo90 Wink wink ;)

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    Ah. I forgot about TDK Strikes Again. That was the reason. But this comes from a tale where Superman knows Batman inside and out. He won't in this movie. For all Superman knows, Batman might be a public enemy.

    Batman isn't crazy. I wouldn't even say tormented. He's disturbed. Tormented, sounds too strong. He's not mentally crippled.
    He was traumatized in his youth by a murder, and who he is today as a result, is Batman.
    The memory haunts him, but it doesn't torture him.
     
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  3. CharlieS

    CharlieS Well-Known Member

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    Ah you forgot TDK Strikes Again then read it again because Superman is not dumb. Batman wanted vengeance in the beginning he learned how to control himself you can use all the word you want batman is not traumatized.
     
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  4. CharlieS

    CharlieS Well-Known Member

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    If the government doesn't blackmail Superman. Superman will never work for the government.
     
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  5. Rodrigo90

    Rodrigo90 Wink wink ;)

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    He won't work for them. But if they ask him, nicely, would he refuse?

    And look up 'traumatized'. You'll see a lot of symptoms Batman has and still displays today, through the traumatising event, of watching his parents be murdered. You are Scarred for LIFE.
     
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  6. CharlieS

    CharlieS Well-Known Member

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    Superman is not corrupt he will never work for the government if the government doesn't blackmail Superman that's canon. Batman has the full control of himself that's canon too.
     
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  7. Rodrigo90

    Rodrigo90 Wink wink ;)

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    He won't work under them.
    But if his COUNTRY needed him, would he turn down requested help from the Government? If the Government wanted a criminal removed, who they feel is a a threat to National security, would Superman not help them?
    I see no reason why he wouldn't, especially if he thinks he's doing the right thing.

    Batman does have full control.
    He's not crazy.

    But have you never seen moments, where he sits alone, thinking to himself? Remembering his traumatic past? If he wasn't traumatized, things wouldn't torture or torment him, right?
    Some writers have it manifest strongly, better examples would be in films like Batman 89, Returns and Forever.
    Whilst other writers for the comics don't put emphasis on it, and that's shown in TDKT.

    Just because his trauma is downplayed nowadays, it doesn't mean it's non existent deep down. He wouldn't be who he is.
     
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  8. AnneFan

    AnneFan Hathaway #1

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    You are right. I wouldn't call it 'being manipulated' per se if Superman more or less agrees with the idea the government is pushing, and in turn helps build relations between them.
     
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  9. Rodrigo90

    Rodrigo90 Wink wink ;)

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    Agreed.

    Batman in this film could be a catalyst as to why Superman refuses to work under the Government again, it would obviously cause discomfort between Nations. Together, they form the Justice League. Not just for America, but for the entire world.
     
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  10. CharlieS

    CharlieS Well-Known Member

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    You think Superman is corrupt that's your opinion, you think Batman is a lunatic that's your opinion, you have a strange opinion on your superheroes.
     
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  11. Rodrigo90

    Rodrigo90 Wink wink ;)

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    I wouldn't be surprised if the Corto Maltese war is an issue within the film.
    That's what pissed off Bruce with Clark in TDKReturns.
     
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  12. Rodrigo90

    Rodrigo90 Wink wink ;)

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    I think Superman is corrupt because he simply wants to help his Government? Even if the premise came from him being tricked into believing Batman was a villain?

    And I believe Batman is a lunatic because of his traumatic past, which would affect anybody in some degree?

    Okay.
     
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  13. CharlieS

    CharlieS Well-Known Member

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    Superman has been blackmailed by the government Superman will never attack other country for the government.
     
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  14. CharlieS

    CharlieS Well-Known Member

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    Superman can stop a meteorite but he will never attack an other country and he will never do the dirty work for the government.
     
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  15. Rodrigo90

    Rodrigo90 Wink wink ;)

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    If America was at threat, Superman wouldn't help his country?

    Remember, this is a Superman still finding himself. He's still a rookie. He's not as sure of things as he is in the comics. He's still finding his feet.
    I'm sure an issue like this would arise in this continuity.
     
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  16. CharlieS

    CharlieS Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that some people think Superman will do the dirty work for the government and that he can't think by himself, like in the comics Superman has to be under unfair pressure to obey the government. In MOS we saw that Superman will not be controlled by the government.
     
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  17. CharlieS

    CharlieS Well-Known Member

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    Superman is not Dr manhattan jeez.
     
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  18. Rodrigo90

    Rodrigo90 Wink wink ;)

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    I agree with that.

    He won't be owned.
    But right now, he's still in no position to go against them. Superman wants them to understand him and be on his side.
    He can judge the situation, and he can give his opinion if they requested his help.
    But they know he has immense power and it can be useful.
    It's why I want him to fall victim to that, at least once, to show the extremity of the point.

    And by the end, he's not an agent to the US, he's an agent to the world. And the Governments accept this, allowing the JL to form. It's about gaining the Trust of everybody, not just one country.
     
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  19. Rodrigo90

    Rodrigo90 Wink wink ;)

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    I'm not asking for things to go that far. Manhatten was a voiceless toy for them to use.
     
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  20. CharlieS

    CharlieS Well-Known Member

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    Come on that's not Superman.
     
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  21. Rodrigo90

    Rodrigo90 Wink wink ;)

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    That's what I mean.

    He's not the Superman we all know and love yet.
    He's a rookie, still growing. MOS showed us that, or at least, me.
     
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  22. CharlieS

    CharlieS Well-Known Member

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    At the end of MOS we saw that Superman had full control and that he will not follow the government.
     
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  23. CharlieS

    CharlieS Well-Known Member

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    #73
  24. Rodrigo90

    Rodrigo90 Wink wink ;)

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    Very true. He'll help, but on his terms.

    However, in simplistic terms. Would he feel controlled, if they simply asked for help, from a threat?

    He won't involve himself with outside business, but if his country was under threat, surely he would help?
     
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  25. CharlieS

    CharlieS Well-Known Member

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    Like i said before he can help for a disaster, Superman will not do the dirty work for the government get over it already.
     
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