Apocalypse What team roster do you want for X-men: Apocalypse?

[Lip]

^ I don't think anyone is expecting that they will be able to focus enough to do justice to Cyclops, Jean and Storm. I mean, honestly, this is the resolution movie for the trilogy that focused on the two sides of the coin, Xavier and Magneto, and the character stuck in the middle, Mystique. That is where the focus will be in this movie.

Yes, we all want Storm, Jean and Scott to get their due this time around. We all want them to be developed appropriately, but I don't think you can honestly expect that to happen in this one movie.

Effectively what I'm saying is that this movie will focus on closing out Mystiques, Charles' and Erik's relationships/stories in order to then be free to focus, in the next trilogy (I hope), on Scott, Jean and Ororo (as well as others).

To be honest, it's all confusing right now. They said Apocalypse will conclude Eric, Charles and Raven trilogy, since it will be the last movie featuring Fassbender, McAvvoy and Lawrence. But is it? They've stated that they can renew the contract, specially Fassbender and McAvvoy.

So when are going to see a movie centered on the X-Men? Fox needs to stop with this and give space to other characters.

The next trilogy will be centered on Storm, Jean and Scott? I hope so, but there is no guarantee. Eric and Charles will be recast? If so, I belive it, but if Fassbender and McAvvoy renew their contract, are we going to see a Charles/Eric centered movie again?

I know Apocalypse will be centered on Charles, Eric and Raven and that is one of the main reasons why I don't want so many characters. Unfortunatelly Fassbender, McAvvoy and Lawrence are going to steal screentime from other characters.

The thing is: I do believe they can work Charles/Eric/Raven and still give importance to Scott, Jean and Storm. But there cannot be a lot of characters.

1. Charles
2. Eric
3. Raven
4. Apocalypse
4. Scott
5. Jean
6. Ororo
7. Hank
8. Quicksilver
9. Logan

These are a fine number of characters to work with, but adding...

10. Nightcrawler
11. Scarlet Witch
12. Gambit
13. Cable
14. Sinister
15. Deadpool

It will be The Last Stand all over again. (Don't forget there is still the Four Horsemen)

Now look at Age of Ultron cast:

1. Tony
2. Cap America
3. Thor
4. Black Widow
5. Hulk
6. Halkeye
7. War Machine
8. Maria Hill
9. Nick Fury
10. Scarlet Witch
11. Quicksilver
12. Vision
13. Ultron

Now, how many of them have already been introduced and developed in previous movies? Vision and Ultron are the only new characters. And Wanda and Pietro are the only introduced before but not developed yet. There is a huge difference between AoU and Apocalypse.

They need to introduce only a few characters in this movie and properly develop them (that doesn't mean making them the main characters). Use the other movies to introduce other characters, and then you put them all together in a movie.

I honestly don't see the need of a huge cast in this movie, since it's no spoiler Apocalypse won't die.

 

[GuestStar2004]

it wouldn't be realistic to expect the characters from X-Men first class to not get a major part of the spot light since its still their continued story and its unlikely that they will take any of them out of the main story of apocalypse

what we will most likely get to keep with the continuation is

1. Some scenes between xavier and magneto (maybe a chess game)
2. Some scenes between raven and charles/eric
3. Hank and his mutation
4. Some story throw backs to FC

and its also unrealistic to expect cyclops,jean and storm to be soul main characters of the film, well at least for this current film

its about balance really and unlike DOFP which you couldn't mix the future characters with the main past story to develop them with this one you actually can

 

[Lip]

It's unrealistic because we're talking about Fox. I'm not a Marvel Studios fan, but it's undeniable Marvel knows how to treat, respect and do justice to their characters. No surprise why Guardians of the Galaxy was the biggest CBM movie of last year. A movie with a talking racoon. And meanwhile Fox is still trying to figure out how to make Storm and Scott major characters. That's beyond shameful.

I don't expect Jean/Storm/Scott to be the main characters, although I definitely want them to be. But I sure expect them to have a big role in the movie, since Fox is expading their universe now. Fox is realizing the more stars you have, the better.

 

[Mulholland-Jr]

I honestly don't see it being any more than a stepping stone for their characters. For future films that is. We all know they bit off way more than they could chew with DOFP.
It's just not feasible.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Leader: Wolverine

Team Members: His Friends

 

[Super Jim]

^ Totally agree with a lot of what is being stated above...

Here are some things to think about...

We have five main stars in these X-Men movies, all of which will want, and likely get a lot of screen time.

The five I'm talking about are:

Xavier
Magneto
Lawrence
Jackman
Hoult

So far, in this First class movies, we've seen, as I explained above, the struggle between the two sides of the coin, Xavier and Erik, with Mystique stuck inbetween. Yes, we saw her doing her own thing in DoFP (saving mutants), but that was because, as we found out, Erik left (and was imprisoned).

But we have to know that they need to conclude the Erik/Xavier tug-a-war of Raven story.

At the same time Xavier has been given a different mission. His task is to find them and bring them together. This is where we'll get to see/meet Scott, Jean and Ororo, and possibly even Kurt (I hope).

Now, mentioning Kurt, if they stick to the concept that he is Raven's son, that would almost have to play into this story. Think about it... If Kurt's father is Azazel (and if they change that I will lose all respect for them) then what caused Mystique to be with Azazel? Erik left her, and she almost certainly has anger over that. So did she seek confort in the arms of Azazel? Or did he force himself on her? Or did he trick her by pretending to be Erik? Whatever it ends up being, the point is that Kurt was born due to this, and what did Mystique do? She abandoned him. I would imagine that Kurt would have problems with that as well. I could see a very emotional scene between Raven and Erik with things like "Why did you leave me?" and "I loved you". Things like that... Then she could explain the whole Azazel and Kurt stuff. That will be crazy powerful, if they go that route, which I truly hope they do... I could also see it being Charles, through his powers, that discovers the truth about Kurt's parentage and either drops the bomb or confronts Raven and guides her to revealing the truth... Again, powerful stuff...

For Erik I can honestly see him having come to the conclusion that taking over the world is not the right way to go. I could see him being isolated, and looking to start a country or at least a place where mutants can be free. This is the story of Genosha or Avalon or Asteroid M or Sanctuary. This would make total sense, if you think about it. I could see Erik going to the X-Men, who would possibly think he's attacking (short battle ensues), but ultimately Erik would invite them to go with him. Most would, of course, say no, but I could see someone like Quicksilver, if he's with the X-Men, joining up, especially if it is revealed that Erik is his daddy.

I'm starting to see this theme of parental issues...

This type of storyline could lead to the next movie with Magneto as a true villain (being affected by Cortez).

Beast's character is really supporting. There is no him and Raven stuff, so they shouldn't force it, though my guess is they will. Yes, in First Class, way back in 1963, there was this attraction, but that was 20 years ago. Bringing that back to the forefront would come off as trying to give Beast a story to resolve. Look, Beast's story is simple. He's supporting Charles in making the school a reality. He should be nothing more than a mentor/instructor for the X-Kids, and obviously he would be in the inventor role as we've seen in the last two movies. He can invent the Danger Room, new uniforms, Scott's visor, etc. Yes, he would likely be present during battles, but he's not the field leader, and more than likely the writer would take steps to force him away from the X-Kids during the battle. Maybe something along the lines of his skills being needed to amplify some piece of equipment, or inventing something that would disrupt the control Apocalypse has on Wolverine, or something like that.

Now Wolverine is the toughest one. Mystique took him for a reason, and we all assume that we'll have to see him get his adamantium back in this one. IMO, making him a Horseman (per the thread I started a year ago) makes the most sense. It gives a reason for him to get the adamantium back. But further it allows the movie to not be focused mainly on him, as we've seen movie after movie after movie. Look, Wolvie is pretty much the coolest character out there, but at some point you have to cut the chord, or at least allow the focus to be elsewhere. Making him the villain, via control (he's a Horseman) keeps him in the movie, resolves the things that need to be resolved (he gets his adamantium back) and makes it so his character doesn't need to get all of the attention/development. It'll also give the audience, and Jackman, something they've never had before...

I think to take all of this further you need to ask yourselves these simple questions:

- What has/is Xavier doing?

The answer should be finding and bringing them together. Effectively the school.

- What has/is Magneto doing?

Lots of ways to go here, but I could see him having isolated himself with plans of creating an Avalon for mutants.

- What has/is Raven doing?

Seems like she would have continued trying to save mutants. Would she form a team to do that? What did she do with Wolverine?

- What has/is Wolverine doing?

Who knows. This all comes down to Raven's purpose of saving him. Ultimately it'll lead to him getting his adamantium back.

- What has/is Beast doing?

Most likely helping Xavier and inventing more stuff for the mansion.

- What has/is Scott, Jean and Ororo doing?

Makes sense that they have been, or will be found and brought together by Xavier and training/will be trained at the school. That means seeing them in the Danger Room.

- What has/is Quicksilver doing?

Tough one. Did he continue to live in his mom's basement? Is he a professional criminal? Did he join up with Magneto? Did he join up with Raven? Did he join up with Xavier?

- What has/is other mutants, like Havok, Toad and Ink doing?

Maybe they won't come into the story, but I have a feeling they will. These guys are not leaders, so if they are part of something it'll be as followers. Would they join with Xavier? For Toad and Ink the likely answer is no. And It's hard to see Havok continuing in that life. I could see Toad and Ink joining with either Magneto or Raven.

 

[Lip]

Magneto and Raven sort of already completed their development in DoFP. But Charles has yet to become the Professor X and the mentor, the paternal figure. I believe they can tell the stories of Scott, Jean and Storm inside Charles development into Professor X. That way you would give the new characters importance without taking Charles's.

Yeah, I believe, following this logic, they could tell Kurt's story inside a Mystique major story. But still, I don't want too many mutants. I don't want another Havok. There is already a lot going on.

Fox needs to get their ***** together and start making these movies and right. And doing justice to these characters. Marvel is faaaaaar ahead. They need to catch up.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Magneto and Raven sort of already completed their development in DoFP. But Charles has yet to become the Professor X and the mentor

i don't think its so much their own personal development its more the continued relationships with eachother

 

[Lip]

I just was comparing their internal development. Eric has already become Magneto. Charles has yet to become the mentor and paternal figure of X-Men.

There is a theory about a full circle: FC = Eric and Charles. DoFP = Charles and Raven. And now Apocalypse = Eric and Raven. I really dislike this idea, specially about a romance between Raven and Eric. Come on, they were both trying to kill each other last movie.

 

[x-er]

^ What disturbs me most is the fact that the most meaningful speech in the film is delivered by Erik, a terrorist and major antagonist.

His speech glamorized his persona and methods and sent the GA a very mixed message. That's why I think they should try to put him on the X-Men's side from now on, to make such a strong message come from a character founded on coexistence and to honor McKellen and Stewart's last moments of regret together.

"All those years wasted fighting each other, Charles... to have a precious few of them back."

 

[GuestStar2004]

i always took what xavier said at the end of dofp as a foreshadow as such

hank: Are you sure you should let them go?

charles: Yes. I have hope for them. There's going to be a time, Hank, when we're all together.

i may be wrong though but thats how i took it

with the whole time travel change i do wonder if there will be a some change in magnetos character by the end

 

[Duran Man]

Keep dreaming, Charles.

 

[Lip]

^ What disturbs me most is the fact that the most meaningful speech in the film is delivered by Erik, a terrorist and major antagonist.

His speech glamorized his persona and methods and sent the GA a very mixed message. That's why I think they should try to put him on the X-Men's side from now on, to make such a strong message come from a character founded on coexistence and to honor McKellen and Stewart's last moments of regret together.

"All those years wasted fighting each other, Charles... to have a precious few of them back."

The world is not black and white. That's the best thing of Fox's version of X-Men. Plus: In the comics Magneto is also an "anti-villain".


About the possibility of Charles and Eric together, it's not bad. I remember in the comics that Charles let Eric in charge of X-Men. That decision split the team after Scott and Ororo fought for the leadership. That's an interesting path to take in the movies.

 

[marvelrobbins]

I think people are dreaming.It doesn't matter what last scene between stewart and
Mckellen was magneto.

Since trilogy to large extent was erased and he wasn't in future scene at end of DOFP we are bound to get a magneto VS X-Men story again at some point after Apocalypse.

 

[Super Jim]

^ There is no way that Charles is going to be putting Magneto in charge of the X-Men at this time, even though that was one of the stories in the comics. I mean, at this point in the movies, he's just becoming the professor for Scott, Jean and Storm. If they were to do something to his character that would put Erik in charge, at this time, that would be garbage!

No, Erik needs to have another resolution and, again, per canon, the one that seems appealing is his isolationist story. Makes total sense. It's him effectively saying "Ok, I'm not fighting anymore. Instead, I'm going to create a sanctuary for mutants. Come if you want.".

Now that makes sense and because it would require Erik going to the X-Men, and Charles, it means there is a chance for some resolution. Pretty much "Charles, my way didn't work. But I don't think your way will work either. So instead, I creating this sanctuary." And of course this would lead to some very concerned leaders around the world. What would Reagan do in response to Mags doing this? Now imagine he does this by creating Asteroid M? Wouldn't Reagan try to create something, in space, to combat Magneto and this mutant threat? Ever hear of Star Wars? Plays perfectly into this...

My whole point is that we've never been given a good Magneto as the villain story.

Let's summarize:

1. In First Class he was part of the X-Men, even though his real motives were about revenege for the death of his mother. Yes, he killed Shaw and then formed the Brotherhood, but at no time during this was he fighting against Xavier and the X-Men.

2. In DoFP he was imprisoned and released by Xavier and his group. He played along with them with his own plans, but again, he wasn't against Xavier.

3. In the first X-Men movie he was the villain with a really bad plan of trying to turn everyone into mutants, but that lame plan kind of ruined him as the villain. Really, what we got was Erik telling Charles to "stay out of my way"... bleh. Sure we got Sabertooth against Wolverine (and Sabertooth sucked), and we got the Toad versus Storm (and Storm sucked - "you know what happens to a toad when it's struck by lightning?"), but that story didn't do Magneto any justice.

4. In X-Men 2 the main villain was Stryker. Again, Mags was working with Xavier, even though he had his own plans... again. But he wasn't against the X-Men.

5. In Last Stand he had his army, which was a bit stupid. Way too many unknown mutants running around. But they killed off Xavier so early, and right in front of Erik's eyes. That made Jean the real threat. Again, weak story that didn't do Magneto's character justice.

So all I'm really saying is that Magneto deserves a story where he is the real villain with a good story surrounding his motivations. The "cure" was a bad story. The turn everyone into mutants was a terrible story. Hopefully he'll get a good story where he is against the X-Men at some point...

But this idea of Charles putting him in charge in Apocalypse, when Xaiver just put the new team together, is terrible.

 

[Lip]

@SuperJim, I'm really not sure if I got your point. Are saying that so far we haven't really seen Magneto Vs X-Men? If that's it, I understand, otherwise I'm confused.

Magneto has been receiving good and interesting storylines that are all consistent to who he and Charles are: Frenemies. Eric and Charles relationship is pretty iconic. They are friends, they like and respect each other, but they are in different sides. The movies has not only been very true to that, but also creating good stories for them. Magneto is constantly against Xavier. They're in different sides. And work with Charles is consistent to their friendship and respect. They both want the same thing, but in different ways.

You say Eric has never received a good villain storyline. Although I'm not sure exactly what you expect from him, I pretty sure Fox does not conceive Magneto to be "The Villain". I don't think Fox has any intention whatsoever to explore Eric as a classic villain. He is more of an anti-villain and a very complex and interesting character.

And I didn't say the idea of Charles putting him in charge of X-men was supposed to happen in Apocalypse. I think it's a good path to take and can definitely turns things up. Specially with Scott leaving the X-Men. That's a pretty important X-Men story, but it should happen years from now. We still need to see Scott and Storm together in the X-Men.

 

[Super Jim]

^ That's exactly what I mean. So far, yes we've seen Magneto as the "main" villain (for example, Last Stand) but we've never seen him truly up against the X-Men as a team. And we've never seen Xavier going up against him directly. In First Class he entered the shielded room and Xavier was shut out (plus they were - sort of - on the same side). In DoFP they were working together - at first - and Xavier was more concerned about Raven in the White House battle. In X-Men Xavier didn't go to Liberty Island (right?). In X-Men 2 the main threat wasn't Erik, it was Stryker, and then after Mags put his own plan into action the main threat (for Xavier) became Mastermind (controlling Xavier). And lastly, in Last Stand, Xavier was killed early in the movie...

I guess I can see your point that Magneto is sort of an anti-villain, but I've always wanted to see the X-Men and Xavier going up against him directly, and less so against his minions (again, Last Stand). Something like this:



There are certain storylines that could serve Magneto very well in this role. For example, the Asteroid M story that I keep mentioning:

I mean, what would Erik be willing to do if he created this Avalon for mutantkind and was attacked? And what would the X-Men be willing to do to try to prevent Erik and the US or the UN from starting a war?

And there are other decent storylines that would give Erik a good motive to go against the X-Men as well.

In regard to putting Mags "in charge" of the X-Men, I could see that down the road, maybe, but it sounds like we're in agreement that for now, and for a while, we need to see Xavier mentoring Scott, Jean, Ororo and others...