What was the problem with the fire bird?

[javon]

Javon, we've discussed this about 59,000 times in other threads.

I haven't been in every thread.

Basically, it was in the script, but they didn't have either the time, or the money, for it.

Has this been stated or is this just a mere opinion?

You are turning into a right old 'Moaning Minnie'....

No need for insulting now.

 

[the a1ant]

There's no excuse for why there was no fire-bird, IMO. Very BAD decision. It didn't even have to be literal fire bird, but the 'psy-fire' Jean was displaying in X2. Just some sort of homage to the comics. Why they left this out, is beyond anyone's guess.

I do actually kinda like the explanation with the water, and how it came into effect with the final battle scene, and I like how Jean 'glowed' when she came out of the lake for two seconds, but still...the 'fire' effect should've been there too (and normal burning objects behind Jean doesn't count).

My major problem with the whole thing is that it appeared in X2, for all to see. Why not build on what was established? It sort of kills the final scene in X2, IMO.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

Has this been stated or is this just a mere opinion?

Its not mere opinion. It was in the script, as a part of the final battle, Jean would "glow like a second sun" making an aura with bird shape. Zak Penn showed the part of the script with that in those Q&A's.

BTW, has anyone got the hands on the X3 script? the scripts from X1 and X2 are way different from the movie.

 

[the a1ant]

I don't believe the X3 script has been made public, yet. I was hoping they would include it with the 'Art of X3' book, like how they did with X2.

 

[Storm22]

There's no excuse for why there was no fire-bird, IMO. Very BAD decision. It didn't even have to be literal fire bird, but the 'psy-fire' Jean was displaying in X2. Just some sort of homage to the comics. Why they left this out, is beyond anyone's guess.

I do actually kinda like the explanation with the water, and how it came into effect with the final battle scene, and I like how Jean 'glowed' when she came out of the lake for two seconds, but still...the 'fire' effect should've been there too (and normal burning objects behind Jean doesn't count).

My major problem with the whole thing is that it appeared in X2, for all to see. Why not build on what was established? It sort of kills the final scene in X2, IMO.

I kind of agree. Alcatraz was the perfect opportunity for the firebird. I would have even been happy if we just got it there. It is a shame it wasn't included but having said that it didn't take away from my overall enjoyment of the Dark Phoenix character and I think in a way it helped differentiate between Phoenix in X2 and Dark Phoenix in X3. I did like the darkening face and vein FX used in X3 too, it helped portray her as an evil, possessed beatch.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

I was very upset about the lack of fire... but after doing some research, I believe what they did made sense.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

here here, i found again the script part refering to Phoenix in all its glory:

EXT. ALCATRAZ ISLAND - NIGHT
THE DARK SKY STARTS TO BRIGHTEN
It looks like a second sun. All eyes rise, looking up into the sky, which twists into strange, unnatural colors.
The sky roils, forming into a ball of fire. The flames curl, like the wings of a bird. We see a single silhouette in the center of the conflagration.
Jean Grey.

 

[Sean Madrox]

Maybe she was the Phoenix at the end of X2 and Dark Phoenix in X3?

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Maybe she was the Phoenix at the end of X2 and Dark Phoenix in X3?

Exactly

 

[flavio_lebeau]

sorry but seeing as it was written in the script, i think this is just an excuse, because it was never a true intention of the writers to differ the effects from Phoenix to Dark Phoenix...

 

[The Original Bamfer]

The writers never did, right. But it was ultimately chosen for a reason. Dark Phoenix didn't always have a fiery aura.

 

[perdev145]

i agree with everyone who says there is a difference between dark phoenix and good phoenix.

however, i do still think there should have been a firebird at some point. i was personally hoping that at the end of everything, right when jean got stabbed, she'd take control of the phoenix powers, and we'd see a big phoenix go over alcatraz and fix what dark phoenix messed up right before jean bled out....she did have that power in the comics. but, it wasn't there, c'est la vie. the pictures i have in my imagination are good enough i suppose

 

[CB Fan]

I have to admit I was really axious about seein the fire bird big and amazing on the big screen...but im not exactly opposed to what they did

 

[BMM]

The writers never did, right. But it was ultimately chosen for a reason. Dark Phoenix didn't always have a fiery aura.

Neither did Phoenix. Regardless, it's not as though fans are asking that Jean maintain a massive Phoenix effect at all times. An aura, a firebird, a Phoenix effect (whatever you want to call it) should have been in place in some form or another. It is an indelible trademark of the character that she has been identified with for almost 30 years. It is featured as rising at the end of X2, and it should have made its way into X-Men 3.

There are undoubtedly differences between Phoenix and Dark Phoenix, but the use of an aura/Phoenix effect is not one of them. The ball was simply dropped due to rushing.

 

[ntcrawler]

^^^ what's this? I see a dark phoenix aura. But that's impossible, because dark phoenix is not supposed to have an aura

 

[the a1ant]

Thanks for the scans and I agree. Phoenix fans would've been totally fine if the firebird was represented at least once, but they didn't bother.

Like I said, I like the idea they had with the water, but ignoring what was established in X2 was a bad mistake. They could've combined both ideas...it's not like it would've cost them too much to just have one scene with a firebird (look at what 'The One' did with his computer...no budget http://media.putfile.com/Flame-86 ). They could've not spent all that money on the CGI reptile guy in the church, etc lol.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Yea, something like that should have happened, ant.

 

[WideAwake]

Maybe she was the Phoenix at the end of X2 and Dark Phoenix in X3?

Doesn't X3 establish that Phoenix is by nature of an evil persona? So there really can't be a good or bad Phoenix.
I think they just didn't have the time and/or money to come up with a firebird.

 

[ico]

Doesn't X3 establish that Phoenix is by nature of an evil persona? So there really can't be a good or bad Phoenix.
I think they just didn't have the time and/or money to come up with a firebird.

Yes, you're correct in thinking that. The good side was Jean Grey, and the dark side was simply Phoenix.


As for the Phoenix fires, personally I would've rather seen a literal flame rather than the whispy aura type effect that was used in X2.

The thought of Phoenix going up in a huge blazing inferno = jaw-dropping.

The thought of Phoenix going up in a huge whispy pale aura = meh.

 

[javon]

There's no excuse for why there was no fire-bird, IMO. Very BAD decision. It didn't even have to be literal fire bird, but the 'psy-fire' Jean was displaying in X2. Just some sort of homage to the comics. Why they left this out, is beyond anyone's guess.

Me too. And then they don't have enough money? Are they telling me they can put fire around her in X2 but not X3? Whatever.

I do actually kinda like the explanation with the water, and how it came into effect with the final battle scene, and I like how Jean 'glowed' when she came out of the lake for two seconds,

And that was just cheesy as hell. We want a damn fire bird. Not no 2 second light that could have been her reflection in the sun .

My major problem with the whole thing is that it appeared in X2, for all to see. Why not build on what was established? It sort of kills the final scene in X2, IMO.

Totally. Couldn't they have left the vains and the black eyes out and substituted that for the fire bird?

 

[ntcrawler]

Doesn't X3 establish that Phoenix is by nature of an evil persona? So there really can't be a good or bad Phoenix.

Phoenix here is a persona. Not powers. The powers are always Jean. She supposedly goes "bad" because she's stripped of her ego and superego and what's left, the id, the lowest part of your unconcious personality that responds to joy, desire, and rage, takes over. But it's just a persona, not her powers. You get rid of phoenix, you reestablish her personality, and you end up with a very powerful but good Jean.

I think they just didn't have the time and/or money to come up with a firebird.

$200 million? I don't think so. $200 million was more than enough to make 2 of the 3 LOTR movies, and those didn't skimp on special effects. Firebird would be pocket change. Ratner could find more than enough funds in his couch under old pizza boxes to cover the costs. They could cut back on catering and the difference would be more than enough to cover the firebird effect.

 

[X-Maniac]

I've said this before, but this shot has some resemblance to the final scene at Alcatraz in which tendrils of water are pulled up around the island...

 

[X-Maniac]

$200 million? I don't think so. $200 million was more than enough to make 2 of the 3 LOTR movies, and those didn't skimp on special effects. Firebird would be pocket change. Ratner could find more than enough funds in his couch under old pizza boxes to cover the costs. They could cut back on catering and the difference would be more than enough to cover the firebird effect.

Still, it would be interesting to hear a definitive statement about why they didn't include the firebird...

It was in the original script, conceptual artwork was done for it (and posted here)..... Did they run out of funds? out of time? Did they make a 'creative decision' not to do it?

 

[ntcrawler]

I've said this before, but this shot has some resemblance to the final scene at Alcatraz in which tendrils of water are pulled up around the island...

No one noticed those tendrils. They were all looking for the fires. It's a cheap consolation prize.

 

[ntcrawler]

It was in the original script, conceptual artwork was done for it (and posted here)..... Did they run out of funds? out of time? Did they make a 'creative decision' not to do it?

Maybe Rothman's daughter chimed in saying she thought fire was scary.