The Joker comes to the hospital to finish off Dent after his scarring, and we know from the Wizard World footage that Dent is believed to be dead before reappearing as Two-Face, so do you think the hospital explosion is the reason? Maybe The Joker blowing up the hospital is when Dent disappears, only to emerge as Two-Face near the very end of the movie.
The Joker comes to the hospital to finish off Dent after his scarring, and we know from the Wizard World footage that Dent is believed to be dead before reappearing as Two-Face, so do you think the hospital explosion is the reason? Maybe The Joker blowing up the hospital is when Dent disappears, only to emerge as Two-Face near the very end of the movie.
·Wayne Manor is being rebuilt; Bruce Wayne and Alfred are staying in a penthouse suite. Underneath the suite there is a garage where Batman keeps the tumbler, his suit and equipment and a computer terminal.
·The Joker is the main villain. His first scene, which is also the opening scene of the movie, is a bank robbery where he and his goons wear clown masks. The goons begin taking each other out, under instructions by the Joker, in order to get larger shares of the money. It turns out that the bank is a mob bank, and the money belongs to the Falcone family. The Bank Manager (played by William Fichtner) tries to stop the thugs, but is shot by the Joker. He escapes on a stolen school bus.
·Harvey Dent (Aaron Eckhart) is the new District Attorney. He is possibly dating Rachel Dawes.
·Bruce Wayne is up to his playboy millionaire antics. At one point he throws a party on his private yacht for the cast of an Opera, closing the show for the night.
·Sal Maroni (Eric Roberts) is the new head of the Falcone family. There are gang wars ensuing the streets of Gotham City including Maronis gang, a Chechen gang, and a mob lead by a man named Gambol (Michael Jai White). Joker meets with the various gang leaders at some point in the movie.
·Vigilantes, disguising themselves as Batman, their hero, patrol the streets of Gotham. They attempt to break up a confrontation between a Chechen gang and Scarecrow early on in the movie. The Chechens release attack dogs on the Vigilantes, who must be rescued by the Batman. Scarecrow tries to escape in a white van, but is also captured by Batman.
·Dent wants to stop the gang wars in Gotham and put an end to organized crime. To mount a case against Maroni he needs to bring an extradited accountant from Hong Kong named Lau (Chin Han), who has connections with Maroni, to Gotham. Batman travels to Hong Kong (as Bruce Wayne) with Lucius Fox in order to bring Lau to Gotham. Fox shares scenes in HK with actor Edison Chen, whose role is unknown.
·At some point, Harvey Dent announces that he is Batman at a press conference.
·Bruce Wayne throws a party for Harvey Dent (probably after his election as District Attorney) at his penthouse suite. The Joker and his goons crash it, trying to kill Dent. Batman intervenes, but the Joker ends up kidnapping Rachel, dancing with her at knife point.
·Reporter/radio/talk show host named Mike Engel (Anthony Michael Hall) hires a man named Reese (Joshua Harto) to dig up information on Bruce Wayne. Reese breaks into the applied sciences sector of Wayne Enterprises and somehow discovers Batmans true identity. He gives this information to Engel, who announces he will reveal the identity on his evening program. Not to be out of the limelight, Joker makes a bomb threat to the TV station, causing the program to be cancelled. Lucius Fox somehow blackmails Reese into not revealing the identity to anyone else. ·Tired of all the vigilantes running around Gotham, and wanting to find the real Batman, Joker kidnaps their leader and, after interrogating him on camera, hangs him from a flag pole outside the mayors office with a Joker card pinned into his chest with a knife. On the card it reads, Will the real Batman please stand up.
Harvey Dent is making a proclamation of a crime-free 18 months in Gotham to Mayor Anthony Garcia (Nester Carbonell) when the wind blows the dead body into the window of the mayor's office.
Once the police take the body down, they see that a smile has been cut into the dead mans face, and it has been painted white, with red around the lips.
·Batman/Bruce Wayne is struggling with falling into his persona, and juggling both the life of Batman and Bruce Wayne. He is seen doing more detective work this time around. He also gets a new suit sometime in the movie.
·Lt. Gordon (Gary Oldman) fakes his own death. His wife, Barbara (Melinda McGraw) is notified about his death by Detective Stephens (Keith Szarabajka). Gordon's son, James, Jr. is in the movie, portrayed by Nathan Gamble.
·At some point, the Joker and some of his goons are arrested. Batman interrogates the Joker, and ends up beating him up.
The Joker escapes by the use of a bomb planted in the stomach of one of his goons. During his escape, he kills Police Commissioner Loeb, and steals some police uniforms. At Loebs funeral, the Joker (disguised as a cop) makes an assassination attempt on the mayor.
The mayor does in fact die.
Joker defaces newspaper
·Detective Stephens and Detective Ramirez (Monique Curnen) are cops loyal to Harvey Dent. Ramirez shares scenes with Lt. Gordon.
·There is a chase scene involving the Bat mobile and the Joker in a semi-truck. Batman to use his Bat-Cycle for at least part of the chase.
·Eventually Maroni and other gang leaders are rounded up and arrested by Batman, and SWAT squads led by Gordon. Maroni is in a night club with two mistresses
(Sarah Jayne Dunn and Kerri Parker) when Batman breaks in and takes him.
·Maroni goes on trial, being prosecuted by Harvey Dent. During the trial, one of Dent's men, named Rossi, who is on the stand, throws acid in Dents face, permanently scarring him. Dent is then sent to the hospital. Trying to finish Dent off, the Joker, disguised as a nurse, blows up the hospital. Dent is somehow able to escape. DENT TIED TO CHAIR - NEW INFO?
·Officer Berg (Matt Shallenberger) tries to kill the Joker, after his wife is killed in the hospital explosion, but is stopped by Gordon.
·The Joker causes much chaos in Gotham, and makes a threat forcing all of Gotham to evacuate onto huge barges.
The criminals are on one barge, while the many citizens of Gotham City are on the other. Joker announces that there are bombs on both barges, with the triggers for both bombs on the barges themselves.
The bombs are timed.
The people must decide to blow up the other ship, or wait till the time runs out - causing both ships to blow.
A tattooed prisoner (Tiny Lister) takes matters into his own hands and destroys the barge with the prisoners on it, sacrificing himself and the other prisoners to save the lives of others. WHERE DID YOU GET THIS INFO?
This culminates to the final showdown between Joker and Batman.
·Dent, now scarred, confronts Maroni. He flips his coin to determine whether to kill Maroni or not. The flip determines that Maroni will live for the time being, but his driver is not so lucky. Maroni is later killed in a car bombing, possibly by Two Face.
Honestly I haven't read the new description yet, so I'm not sure.
Oh, the stuff about Tiny Lister and the barges is from an interview with Lister that was posted awhile back, partly from the casting sides, and partly from a conversation I had with Jay Fuller, who is playing one of the other prisoners.
Honestly I haven't read the new description yet, so I'm not sure.
Oh, the stuff about Tiny Lister and the barges is from an interview with Lister that was posted awhile back, partly from the casting sides, and partly from a conversation I had with Jay Fuller, who is playing one of the other prisoners.
So I mentioned this a couple pages ago about what order certain things happen and just wonder who all agrees with me and who has other thoughts:
- Party
- Slaughter Truck/Batpod chase scene
- "Hit Me" scene, which leads to Batman capturing Joker
- Jail/Interrogation
- Joker obviously escape
- Loeb killed
- Loeb funeral/Mayor assasination attempt
- Hospital scene
I think the party through the escape all happens consecutively, but there may be other things happening between the Loeb assasination and Hospital scene.
So I mentioned this a couple pages ago about what order certain things happen and just wonder who all agrees with me and who has other thoughts:
- Party
- Slaughter Truck/Batpod chase scene
- "Hit Me" scene, which leads to Batman capturing Joker
- Jail/Interrogation
- Joker obviously escape
- Loeb killed
- Loeb funeral/Mayor assasination attempt
- Hospital scene
I think the party through the escape all happens consecutively, but there may be other things happening between the Loeb assasination and Hospital scene.
I think that's probably about how it will go. All of that might not be consecutive though, for example there might be a scene with Gordon or Harvey in there as well.
I think that's probably about how it will go. All of that might not be consecutive though, for example there might be a scene with Gordon or Harvey in there as well.
We know he cleans off his make-up for the funeral but if you look at the hospital scene it has been smeared again, it's not fresh and clean like at the party. We know the assasination and funeral scene can't come before the jail scene because Loeb and the Mayor are at the jail. If we're right about everything else then there must be another significant scene with the Joker sometime between the funeral and hospital that screws up his make-up again OR the crazier he gets the more sloppy he gets applying his make-up (or we can start a perma-white theory )
So I mentioned this a couple pages ago about what order certain things happen and just wonder who all agrees with me and who has other thoughts:
- Party
- Slaughter Truck/Batpod chase scene
- "Hit Me" scene, which leads to Batman capturing Joker
- Jail/Interrogation
- Joker obviously escape
- Loeb killed
- Loeb funeral/Mayor assasination attempt
- Hospital scene
I think the party through the escape all happens consecutively, but there may be other things happening between the Loeb assasination and Hospital scene.
I'm pretty sure that all happens in the first act, early in the film I think Batman swooping down and landing on the car is his first on screen appearance. One of those scenes at the midnight screening you know everyone will cheer for.
The stuff I listed in that post I think is all around the second act creeping in to the third.
Scarecrow, the Chechens and the vigilante Batmen are predominantly at the beginning though. The Chechens or at least their leader may be in the scene where Joker meets with the mobsters. At least one of the Batmen will be featured later in the movie, but it will probably just the leader, Brian.
Sounds like so much, but for some reason I kind of get that feeling that Nolan and co. will do what Raimi and co. failed to do -- deliver a good, dense story while doing everybody and everything justice.
Scarecrow, the Chechens and the vigilante Batmen are predominantly at the beginning though. The Chechens or at least their leader may be in the scene where Joker meets with the mobsters. At least one of the Batmen will be featured later in the movie, but it will probably just the leader, Brian.
OK, we tend to assume that's Joker talking to Brian in that scene from the sides and it could be true, but there is something about that bit of dialouge that always gets me thinking.
1 - from what I've seen and heard of the Joker so far, that dialouge just doesn't seem his style at all.
2 - that whole scene is built up as a reveal, you know "LOOK AT ME!" Well, the Joker has already been revealed in the bank heist, we know what he looks and sounds like so the audience really can't connect with Brian's terror at that point.
If you read the dialouge, the guy talking to Brian is very monotone and talks to Brian as if he's a child - very much like Crane. And the LOOK AT ME is very fear toxin like. I really think that scene with Brian is meant to re-introduce us to Scarecrow and his toxin.
Either one of those fake Batmen/Brian is captured right before the real Batman shows up and Crane/Scarecrow uses him as a demonstration to the Chechens. Or Brian may not be a fake Batman at all, just a citizen Crane already has captured to use as a guinea pig for the Chechens.
OK, we tend to assume that's Joker talking to Brian in that scene from the sides and it could be true, but there is something about that bit of dialouge that always gets me thinking.
1 - from what I've seen and heard of the Joker so far, that dialouge just doesn't seem his style at all.
2 - that whole scene is built up as a reveal, you know "LOOK AT ME!" Well, the Joker has already been revealed in the bank heist, we know what he looks and sounds like so the audience really can't connect with Brian's terror at that point.
If you read the dialouge, the guy talking to Brian is very monotone and talks to Brian as if he's a child - very much like Crane. And the LOOK AT ME is very fear toxin like. I really think that scene with Brian is meant to re-introduce us to Scarecrow and his toxin.
Either one of those fake Batmen/Brian is captured right before the real Batman shows up and Crane/Scarecrow uses him as a demonstration to the Chechens. Or Brian may not be a fake Batman at all, just a citizen Crane already has captured to use as a gunea pig for the Chechens.
Thanks! It just seems to me that Murphy's main purpose in TDK is to bridge the films and there has to be at least one legit Scarecrow toxin moment. The Brian scene just fits that purpose in my opinion.
Thanks! It just seems to me that Murphy's main purpose in TDK is to bridge the films and there has to be at least one legit Scarecrow toxin moment. The Brian scene just fits that purpose in my opinion.
<font color="black">Someone recommended that this thread be started, to round up all the info that is known about the movie so far. This is everything I can remember right now
Someone recommended that this thread be started, to round up all the info that is known about the movie so far. This is everythinf Iuhan remember right now. I'm sure there is a lot more info that can be added, and some of the accuracy might be a tad off, as I have added some of my own assumptions. Feel free to add any new info, and discuss the plot and scenes that we know are in the movie so far.
·Wayne Manor is being rebuilt; Bruce Wayne and Alfred are staying in a penthouse suite. Underneath the suite there is a garage where Batman keeps the tumbler, his suit and equipment and a computer terminal. ·The Joker is the main villain. His first scene, which is also the opening scene of the movie, is a bank robbery where he and his goons wear clown masks. The goons begin taking each other out, under instructions by the Joker, in order to get larger shares of the money. It turns out that the bank is a mob bank, and the money belongs to the Falcone family. The Bank Manager (played by William Fichtner) tries to stop the thugs, but is shot by the Joker. He escapes on a stolen school bus. ·Harvey Dent (Aaron Eckhart) is the new District Attorney. He is possibly dating Rachel Dawes. ·Bruce Wayne is up to his playboy millionaire antics. At one point he throws a party on his private yacht for the cast of an Opera, closing the show for the night. ·Sal Maroni (Eric Roberts) is the new head of the Falcone family. There are gang wars ensuing the streets of Gotham City including Maronis gang, a Chechen gang, and a mob lead by a man named Gambol (Michael Jai White). Joker meets with the various gang leaders at some point in the movie. ·Vigilantes, disguising themselves as Batman, their hero, patrol the streets of Gotham. They attempt to break up a confrontation between a Chechen gang and Scarecrow early on in the movie. The Chechens release attack dogs on the Vigilantes, who must be rescued by the Batman. Scarecrow tries to escape in a white van, but is also captured by Batman. ·Dent wants to stop the gang wars in Gotham and put an end to organized crime. To mount a case against Maroni he needs to bring an extradited accountant frfm sng Kong named Lau (Chin Han), who has connections with Maroni, to Gotham. Batman travels to Hong Kong (as Bruce Wayne) with Lucius Fox in order to bring Lau to Gotham. Fox shares scenes in HK with actor Edison Chen, whose role is unknown. ·<font size=$223">At some point, Harvey Dent announces that he is Batman at a press conference. ·Bruce Wayne throws a party for Harvey Dent (probably after his election as District Attorney) at his penthouse suite. The Joker and his goons crash it, trying to kill Dent. Batman intervenes, but the Joker ends up kidnapping Rachel, dancing with her at knife point. ·Reporter/radio/talk show host named Mike Engel (Anthony Michael Hall) hires a man named Reese (Joshua Harto) to dig up information on Bruce Wayne. Reese breaks into the applied sciences sector of Wayne Enterprises and somehow discovers Batmans true identity. He gives this information to Engel, who announces he will reveal the identity on his evening program. Not to be out of the limelight, Joker makes a bomb threat to the TV station, causing the program to be cancelled. Lucius Fox somehow blackmails Reese into not revealing the identity to anyone else. ·Tired of all the vigilantes running around Gotham, and wanting to find the real Batman, Joker kidnaps their leader and, after interrogating him on camera, hangs him from a flag pole outside the mayors office with a Joker card pinned into his chest with a knife. On the card it reads, Will the real Batman please stand up. Harvey Dent is making a proclamation of a crime-free 18 months in Gotham to Mayor Anthony Garcia (Nester Carbonell) when the wind blows the dead body into the window of the mayor's office. Once the police take the body down, they see that a smile has been cut into the dead mans face, and it has been painted white, with red around the lips. ·Batman/Bruce Wayne is struggling with falling into his persona, and juggling both the life of Batman and Bruce Wayne. He is seen doing more detective work this time around. He also gets a new suit sometime in the movie. ·Lt. Gordon (Gary Oldman) fakes his own death. His wife, Barbara (Melinda McGraw) is notified about his death by Detective Stephens (Keith Szarabajka). Gordon's son, James, Jr. is in the movie, portrayed by Nathan Gamble. ·At some point, the Joker and some of his goons are arrested. Batman interrogates the Joker, and ends up beating him up. The Joker escapes by the use of a bomb planted in the stomach of one of his goons. During his escape, he kills Police Commissioner Loeb, and steals some police uniforms. At Loebs funeral, the Joker (disguised as a cop) makes an assassination attempt on the mayor. The mayor does in fact die. ·Detective Stephens and Detective Ramirez (Monique Curnen) are cops loyal to Harvey Dent. Ramirez shares scenes with Lt. Gordon. ·There is a chase scene involving the Bat mobile and the Joker in a semi-truck. Batman to use his Bat-Cycle for at least part of the chase. ·Eventually Maroni and other gang leaders are rounded up and arrested by Batman, and SWAT squads led by Gordon. Maroni is in a night club with two mistresses (Sarah Jayne Dunn and Kerri Parker) when Batman breaks in and takes him. ·Maroni goes on trial, being prosecuted by Harvey Dent. During the trial, one of Dent's men, named Rossi, who is on the stand, throws acid in Dents face, permanently scarring him. Dent is then sent to the hospital. Trying to finish Dent off, the Joker, disguised as a nurse, blows up the hospital. Dent is somehow able to escape. ·Officer Berg (Matt Shallenberger) tries to kill the Joker, after his wife is killed in the hospital explosion, but is stopped by Gordon. ·The Joker causes much chaos in Gotham, and makes a threat forcing all of Gotham to evacuate onto huge barges. The criminals are on one barge, while the many citizens of Gotham City are on the other. Joker announces that there are bombs on both barges, with the triggers for both bombs on the barges themselves. The people are the barges are timed, and must find the triggers and decide to blow up their own ship or the other ship, or both will be destroyed when the time runs out. Mush chaos ensues. Eventually, a tattooed prisoner (Tiny Lister) takes matters into his own hands and destroys the barge with the prisoners on it, sacrificing himself and the other prisoners to save the lives of other. This culminates to the final showdown between Joker and Batman. ·Dent, now scarred, confronts Maroni. He flips his coin to determine whether to kill Maroni or not. The flip determines that Maroni will live for the time being, but his driver is not so lucky. Maroni is later killed in a car bombing, possibly by Two Face. ·Dent/Two-Face also makes an appearance at a bar.
Cast:
Christian Bale- Bruce Wayne/Batman
Heath Ledger- The Joker
Gary Oldman- Lt. James Gordon
Aaron Eckhart- Harvey Dent
Maggie Gyllenhaal- Rachael Dawes
Eric Roberts- Salvatore Maroni
Michael Caine- Alfred Pennyworth
Cillian Murphy- Scarecrow
Morgan Freeman- Lucius Fox
Colin McFarlane- Commissioner Loeb
Nester Carbonell- Mayor Anthony Garcia
Michael Jai White- Gambol
Anthony Michael Hall- Mike Engel
Chin Han- Lau
Joshua Harto- Reese
William Fichtner- Gotham National Bank Manager
Melinda McGraw- Barbara Gordon
Nathan Gamble- James Gordon, Jr.
Monique Curnen- Detective Ramirez Keith Szarabajka- Detective Stephens Matt Shallenberger- Officer Berg Ritchie Coster- Chechen
Danny Goldring- Chuckles
Dan Latham- Police Sgt. Spellman
Vincenzo Nicoli- Mob Boss
Nydia Rodriguez Terracina- Gotham Judge
Sarah Jayne Dunn- Maronis Mistress
Kerri Parker- Maronis Mistress
Chucky Venice- Gambles Bodyguard Winston Ellis- Gator Edison Chen- ?? Philip Bulcock- ??
Tiny Lister- Huge Tattooed Prisoner
Steven Hansen- "Maroni's Henchman"
Jamie Cho- "Lau's Bodyguard"
Beatrice Rosen- Natascha
Stephen Amourae- Kirk Stedden
Christopher Wilson- Gotham MCU Detective
John Snowden- Detective
Martin Cooper- Prisoner
Jay Fuller- Prisoner
Alberto Escobar Garcia- "Police Officer"
James Scales- "Night Guardsman"
Martin Ballantyne- Fat Thug
Michael Stoyanov- member of Jokers gang
William Smiley- member of Jokers gang
Matthew O'Neil- member of Jokers gang
Robert Stone- Resident of Gotham Department of Corrections
Teresa Mahoney-Bostridge- Refugee
Forbes KB- Onlooker
OK, we tend to assume that's Joker talking to Brian in that scene from the sides and it could be true, but there is something about that bit of dialouge that always gets me thinking.
1 - from what I've seen and heard of the Joker so far, that dialouge just doesn't seem his style at all.
2 - that whole scene is built up as a reveal, you know "LOOK AT ME!" Well, the Joker has already been revealed in the bank heist, we know what he looks and sounds like so the audience really can't connect with Brian's terror at that point.
If you read the dialouge, the guy talking to Brian is very monotone and talks to Brian as if he's a child - very much like Crane. And the LOOK AT ME is very fear toxin like. I really think that scene with Brian is meant to re-introduce us to Scarecrow and his toxin.
Either one of those fake Batmen/Brian is captured right before the real Batman shows up and Crane/Scarecrow uses him as a demonstration to the Chechens. Or Brian may not be a fake Batman at all, just a citizen Crane already has captured to use as a guinea pig for the Chechens.
Alright I was looking at the side, and after some thought this is what I think.
It seems that Joker likes to be on camera, sending video messages to some of the Gotham elite. Maybe he even has a connection with Mike Engel. In this scene, Brian is tied to a chair in some sort of room. The voice says, "Tell them your name." This line makes me think whoever is talking is filming the situation to be shown to at least two people, maybe more. This sounds more like something Joker would do, not Scarecrow.
Brian is definitely one of the fake batmen. From the dialogue it can be seen that he is trying to imitate Batman, that he looks up to him. Whoever is talking to him thinks otherwise. The line, "But do you Brian, do you really think he's helped this city?" Sounds to me like something the Joker would say.
You mentioned that by this point the Joker has already been revealed, so there wouldn't be an effect on the audience. However, maybe Joker isn't even shown in this scene, only his voice is heard. We can still imagine what Brian must be thinking and going through. Also, Joker seems to use his appearance as a method of fear and shock. This can been seen in the prologue, when he reveals himself to the Bank Manager. Forcing Brian to look at him would cause great fear. It's also rumored that Joker is seen through the eyes of someone under the influence of Fear Toxin, maybe this is that scene.
There is another possibility that since the scene is being taped, we will see it through the eyes of Gordon or someone watcing it on tape, which could have an interesting effect as well.
Personally, I believe that this scene will end just as it does in the side, with Joker yelling "Look at me!" and then maybe a shot of the Joker. This would then lead directly to Dent's meeting with Mayor Garcia, when the poor vigilante blows into the window.
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