BvS What Went Wrong w/ Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (SPOILERS) - Part 1

[jokesonm3]

well blame terrio too the script was awful and snyder didn't write it

the reason we have no development,motivation,etc is because of terrio

Don't blame him, he had to rewrite the mess of an idea that Goyer and Snyder came up with before he joined.

Excluding Eisenberg the dialogue was great, it was the films story structure that was bad.

 

[InspecktahDeck]

Don't blame him, he had to rewrite the mess of an idea that Goyer and Snyder came up with before he joined.

Excluding Eisenberg the dialogue was great, it was the films story structure that was bad.

I didn't like Eisenberg that much, but he had at least one great exchange.

Spoiler

"And I want access to the alien's body.

"Zod?"

"....sure."

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

It takes a true stoner to navigate BvS and make sense of all it Au potato gratin layers.

I don't just mean smoking/vaping/dabbing it. I mean eating half of a 10 dose medical grade fudge.

Only then will one unlock the hidden treasures of BvS.

lol'd at medical grade fudge.

Also taking all of this as compliments.

 

[Micromind]

People would go even more bat**** if they made a movie with Batman outrightkilling Superman. No offense, but that's an awful idea and would have been a terrible movie.

Batman killing Superman would have resulted in further drop in the RT rating (not that it makes any difference), besides it would have resulted in Superman fans walking out of theaters in droves.

It would have reduced Batman to Batman from "The dark knight Strikes".

 

[spider-neil]

Well, Superman has a strict code then even Captain America.

Cap America can get away by killing someone in the fight, as he is a trained Solider, but if Superman does that he will be criticized.


If Captain America fails to save someone, it would be justified as he has "human" limitations, not so with Supes, people will hold him responsible.

Do fans really take all this into consideration, while making convenient comparisons between the two ? I'm tired of people comparing the two.

Agreed. Not a fair comparison.

This is why I was disappointed that Superman didn't out and out spell out what was going through his head at the congress meeting.

'During the battle of Metropolis I had to make a choice, save thousands or save billions'

'People can say what they want about me but bottom line, all I want to do is help, that's all'.

'Ask the people I've saved if they wish I just stayed at home that day'

---

Much more compelling and character building then blowing **** up (which admittedly was a cool and shocking scene). A wasted opportunity.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

People would go even more bat**** if they made a movie with Batman outrightkilling Superman. No offense, but that's an awful idea and would have been a terrible movie.

i dont disagree that people would've gone bat**** (please tell me pun intended) but i do disagree that it would've made it a terrible movie. It would've made it an interesting movie. And plenty of us would be having much different arguments than we are now. Mostly about how grizzly retired batman would act when he reaches the end of his rope, particularly in the "realistic" setting Snyder tried to establish.

Plus, he already kills folks in this film, whats the difference killing someone we all know will come back?

 

[Micromind]

Agreed. Not a fair comparison.

This is why I was disappointed that Superman didn't out and out spell out what was going through his head at the congress meeting.

'During the battle of Metropolis I had to make a choice, save thousands or save billions'

'People can say what they want about me but bottom line, all I want to do is help, that's all'.

'Ask the people I've saved if they wish I just stayed at home that day'

---

Much more compelling and character building then blowing **** up (which admittedly was a cool and shocking scene). A wasted opportunity.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

lol i said grizzly. meant grisly. or maybe grizzled.

scratch that, meant grizzly.

 

[craigdbfan]

Agreed. Not a fair comparison.

This is why I was disappointed that Superman didn't out and out spell out what was going through his head at the congress meeting.

'During the battle of Metropolis I had to make a choice, save thousands or save billions'

'People can say what they want about me but bottom line, all I want to do is help, that's all'.

'Ask the people I've saved if they wish I just stayed at home that day'

---

Much more compelling and character building then blowing **** up (which admittedly was a cool and shocking scene). A wasted opportunity.

Honestly if you think about it, there's no reason they couldn't have done both.

They could have included all that and then have her realize about granny's peach tea.

 

[matt47]

i dont disagree that people would've gone bat**** (please tell me pun intended) but i do disagree that it would've made it a terrible movie. It would've made it an interesting movie. And plenty of us would be having much different arguments than we are now. Mostly about how grizzly retired batman would act when he reaches the end of his rope, particularly in the "realistic" setting Snyder tried to establish.

Plus, he already kills folks in this film, whats the difference killing someone we all know will come back?

And it's not like he wasn't going to kill Supes in this movie.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Yeah man, he walked into that fight looking to kill a dude. And he wasn't even trying to save anyone specifically (like Clark was).

 

[Poni_Boy]

It's gonna be unpopular, but I think Wonder Woman was what went wrong.

Don't get me wrong, Wonder Woman was probably the best part of the film, but without her, we wouldn't have needed something for the three of them to team up against. Without Wonder Woman we can lop out Doomsday and the other metahuman subplot entirely. We can go from "BvS: DoJ" to just BvS. With the extra half hour we saved we can further develop Bruce/Alfred, Lois/Clark, Lex/Supes, The Daily Planet, etc.

If they still insisted upon killing off Supes, Batman could've done it. He almost did anyway. The "Save Martha" couldve come after the killing blow had been struck. And then once Batman goes to save her, he has a conversation with her, where she explains how good her son really was. Upon watching a video replay of the battle, he sees Superman showing restraint and trying to talk Batman down. Batman sees how his rage took over. Killing Superman mirrors Zod's death from Man of Steel. Fans are obviously unhappy about this, but at least its a thematic parallel. And it would've been a surprise. Pretty risky move.

Then he goes after Lex, who he realizes was the catalyst for the entire battle. He stops him before he completes Doomsday. Sends him to prison. He then reviews the metahuman data recovered from Lex's archives (during the end credits) and decides to unite the JL. He also sees the Zod resurrection project (a nod to superman's revival).

Maybe, idk. I'm high.

That's wonderful. Wow.

 

[hafizbat]

It's gonna be unpopular, but I think Wonder Woman was what went wrong.

Don't get me wrong, Wonder Woman was probably the best part of the film, but without her, we wouldn't have needed something for the three of them to team up against. Without Wonder Woman we can lop out Doomsday and the other metahuman subplot entirely. We can go from "BvS: DoJ" to just BvS. With the extra half hour we saved we can further develop Bruce/Alfred, Lois/Clark, Lex/Supes, The Daily Planet, etc.

If they still insisted upon killing off Supes, Batman could've done it. He almost did anyway. The "Save Martha" couldve come after the killing blow had been struck. And then once Batman goes to save her, he has a conversation with her, where she explains how good her son really was. Upon watching a video replay of the battle, he sees Superman showing restraint and trying to talk Batman down. Batman sees how his rage took over. Killing Superman mirrors Zod's death from Man of Steel. Fans are obviously unhappy about this, but at least its a thematic parallel. And it would've been a surprise. Pretty risky move.

Then he goes after Lex, who he realizes was the catalyst for the entire battle. He stops him before he completes Doomsday. Sends him to prison. He then reviews the metahuman data recovered from Lex's archives (during the end credits) and decides to unite the JL. He also sees the Zod resurrection project (a nod to superman's revival).

Maybe, idk. I'm high.

Great job man. I'm 100% sure there's a great movie in Batman v Superman, but it's far far far from what we got. I totally agree with everything you said. The "Dawn of Justice" is what killed this movie.

I really don't think this movie was very hard to pull off either. A Batman/Superman story just writes itself. Hell I'd take the animated World's Finest story any day.

I think BVS takes the cake when it comes to movies being ruined by studio interference/world building. Iron Man 2 and TASM2 weren't THIS bad. For all the lip service about how the DCEU is going to be so original and free with their directors and blah blah, lol and behold they turned out to be just as corporate and greedy and hasty as any movie studio. May as well have stuck "coming soon to theaters near you" on the cameos.

The entire project was made for tomorrow, not today. Lex doesn't have a real purpose other than bringing Doomsday and Darkseid. Superman's death is unearned and doesn't help this movie; it's just setting the stage for JL. Blech. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

 

[jokesonm3]

Great job man. I'm 100% sure there's a great movie in Batman v Superman, but it's far far far from what we got. I totally agree with everything you said. The "Dawn of Justice" is what killed this movie.

I really don't think this movie was very hard to pull off either. A Batman/Superman story just writes itself. Hell I'd take the animated World's Finest story any day.

Take any World's Finest comic book and adapt it into a film and it would've been a great movie.

The dawn of Justice Segment was indeed the worst thing to ever happen to this film, curse of rushing a shared universe.

 

[bluearth]

Great job man. I'm 100% sure there's a great movie in Batman v Superman, but it's far far far from what we got. I totally agree with everything you said. The "Dawn of Justice" is what killed this movie.

I really don't think this movie was very hard to pull off either. A Batman/Superman story just writes itself. Hell I'd take the animated World's Finest story any day.

Your first paragraph explains the second - why the film was difficult to pull off. Case in point in the movie when Superman flies off to Gotham to fight Batman we cut to Diana looking through an email about metahumans to help set up the Justice League. It hurt the moment of the film. A scene like that should have been reserved for after credits etc, not before the fight everyone came to see. But its there because of the dawn of justice part.

Anyway, my final 2 cents on the films biggest issues

- Wonder Woman is a stock character. She has no personality. Desperately needed a scene of her stopping a crime or helping someone to give us a taste of who she is. When we first see Faora in Man of Steel shes throwing an old council member to the ground. Right away we know what type of person she is. When we first see Diana theres nothing in particular that stands out about her personality. As it is shes just an extended cameo and doesnt really contribute anything noteworthy to the film.

- The Lois Lane Lex Corp bullet subplot was subpar and kept popping up randomly hurting the flow of the film. In the end it didnt really matter Lex was going to jail anyways and all of Lois' 'investigative reporting' amounted to begging officials to look into the bullet she found.

- Superman didnt get much to do. I was 100% expecting an amazing 'save the crippled plane' type moment from Superman in this film and we didnt get it. There was 6 action scenes in this film. Batman/Bruce Wayne was featured prominently in 5 of them. Superman just two. The last two.

- No new side characters were introduced that were interesting or had any impact at all. Mercy Graves, Jimmy Olsen, Carrie Kelley, etc etc were either useless or completely missing.

- Too much was edited out/pacing was too fast. It felt like no scene in the film lasted longer then a minute. The film moved around too quickly. Would it have hurt to just spend a little time in the Batcave to take a quick breather?

Every film has its set of flaws. I dont think these are serious enough to warrant a 28% on Rotten Tomatoes, considering all the things the movie did do right.

I still give the film a 4/5, and its possible the extended cut might get a 5/5

 

[OutOfBoose]

It's gonna be unpopular, but I think Wonder Woman was what went wrong.

Don't get me wrong, Wonder Woman was probably the best part of the film, but without her, we wouldn't have needed something for the three of them to team up against. Without Wonder Woman we can lop out Doomsday and the other metahuman subplot entirely. We can go from "BvS: DoJ" to just BvS. With the extra half hour we saved we can further develop Bruce/Alfred, Lois/Clark, Lex/Supes, The Daily Planet, etc.

If they still insisted upon killing off Supes, Batman could've done it. He almost did anyway. The "Save Martha" couldve come after the killing blow had been struck. And then once Batman goes to save her, he has a conversation with her, where she explains how good her son really was. Upon watching a video replay of the battle, he sees Superman showing restraint and trying to talk Batman down. Batman sees how his rage took over. Killing Superman mirrors Zod's death from Man of Steel. Fans are obviously unhappy about this, but at least its a thematic parallel. And it would've been a surprise. Pretty risky move.

Then he goes after Lex, who he realizes was the catalyst for the entire battle. He stops him before he completes Doomsday. Sends him to prison. He then reviews the metahuman data recovered from Lex's archives (during the end credits) and decides to unite the JL. He also sees the Zod resurrection project (a nod to superman's revival).

Maybe, idk. I'm high.

The movie we got had everything to be a really great film. Even with Wonder Woman and Doomsday. It just needed a serious polish. Like SERIOUS. Your idea is pretty at times, but it completely undermines quite powerful ending. Superman's sacrifice and funeral. Superman becomes literally NOTHING in your version. Zero impact on anything, but Batman's feeling about himself. JL establishment motive is really weak too.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

This film mase me appreciate the Avengers even more. Snyder and his writers couldn't make three superheroes feel organic to the film. Whedon did it with six. Sure, you could say there were solo films to help him, but Whedon took the harder road and reintroduced everyone in the first act. He made it so you would perfectly understand everything going on even if you never watched a Marvel film before.

 

[bluearth]

This film mase me appreciate the Avengers even more. Snyder and his writers couldn't make three superheroes feel organic to the film. Whedon did it with six. Sure, you could say there were solo films to help him, but Whedon took the harder road and reintroduced everyone in the first act. He made it so you would perfectly understand everything going on even if you never watched a Marvel film before.

The Avengers is the best comic book movie ever made. And your right this film should make us respect it more. Only Batman was given justice in this movie, Superman and Wonderwoman had very little to do in comparison.

 

[Flint Marko]

This film mase me appreciate the Avengers even more. Snyder and his writers couldn't make three superheroes feel organic to the film. Whedon did it with six. Sure, you could say there were solo films to help him, but Whedon took the harder road and reintroduced everyone in the first act. He made it so you would perfectly understand everything going on even if you never watched a Marvel film before.

Preach.

 

[jokesonm3]

Well Whedon's talent makes Snyder look like a film student in comparison.

 

[spider-neil]

This film mase me appreciate the Avengers even more. Snyder and his writers couldn't make three superheroes feel organic to the film. Whedon did it with six. Sure, you could say there were solo films to help him,

The solo movies were there to help him. Imagine if Whedon had to not only integrate the heroes but introduce them as well AND set up an multiple storylines.

 

[STARMAN]

Putting aside the basic filmmaking issues such as editing, If they handled Superman better the whole movie would have been better for it.

 

[bluearth]

Imagine if Whedon had to not only integrate the heroes but introduce them as well AND set up an multiple storylines.

= Age of Ultron which was subpar

 

[spider-neil]

Well Whedon's talent makes Snyder look like a film student in comparison.

At least Snyder has visual flair. The Avengers movies and Serenity look like TV movies with a bigger budget.

 

[spider-neil]

= Age of Ultron

Well, quite. AoU is bloated MESS.