The Avengers What would YOU make the AVENGERS movie about..?

[marcvader]

kang is a time traveler not an alien

I know he's a time traveler. Is he a human being?

 

[3dman27]

As i understand it he's a decendant of dr.doom

 

[marcvader]

I just looked it up and lo and behold he's Reed Richards ancestor. Never knew this.

 

[chris moore]

double post

 

[chris moore]

The threat I think has to be something Earthbound for the time being. Even though Thor will be magical in nature and will take some interesting doing to weave it into the so far 'realistic/scientific without being too sci-fi spaceinvaders' Marvel movie franchise, I think aliens or time travellers would be a bit too much for the general audience. Its just too many genres of fantasy trying to mash together.

Its possible to do a supervillain team of some sort with a world threatening plan without dipping into politics like ultimates vol 2, or risking international whiplash by making a particular nation or group terrorists. Therefore having an old nemesis of a bygone era as the villain with power hungry or money hungry (or just plain anarchical) backups/partners is the most pleasing way to go for everyone.

A bioweapon is one way to go for the threat, but then the creation of it really needs to be part of the problem and a supervillain is always going to have a cadre of evil geniuses that can whip one up no worries. So maybe an ancient bioweapon that requires hunting for fragments or information as to its location would be the way to go. That way it could tie into the Thor mythology by the weapon being something smuggled out of Asgard millenia ago before Odin's rule began and hidden within an ancient advanced civilisation. When used with something more manmade and modern like a particular new virus, it makes the virus unstoppable, or selective to everyone but Zemo's choice in master race.

Just spitballing there though - havent given it enough thought for it to be sensible really

 

[marcvader]

I think team of supervillains vs. a team of superheroes would be too convenient and hokey. I'd like some earthshattering reason to form this team. It can't be something as simple as these villains want to take over the world.

 

[Jordacar]

If they fight Hulk after Cap is revived, it could be Cap who delivers a decisive blow to bring Hulk down.

 

[chris moore]

Having just watched Hulk Vs Wolverine, I quite like the idea of a team of supervillains/superpowered henchmen tracking and hunting the hulk in order to use him as a weapon. In the ensuing fight (at the start of the movie), Cap's body is released from the glacier like the deleted scene in Incredible Hulk.

 

[kedrell]

The Op has raised a good question. Considering the odds that they don't just wish to make one Avengers film, perhaps a gradual escalation of the threats throughout several films is the way to go. The first could be relatively simple, like Ultron or Kang as the main lone villain that they must all team up to stop, then from there graduate to a Grand Theft America scenario in the sequel with something like the Masters of Evil being the threat. Then on to larger threats(possibly from space aliens like the Kree or the Skrulls) and then further beyond that to immense threats like the Beyonder, the Celestials, Thanos powered up to near Godhood or something else along those lines.

Or maybe I'm just whistling dixie.

 

[Artistsean]

And there came a day, a day unlike any other, when Earth's mightiest heroes and heroines found themselves united against a common threat. On that day, the Avengers were born-- to fight the foes no single super hero could withstand! Avengers Assemble!



I don't know which movie it should be, 1, 2, 3, or maybe 4,
but one of the movies should deal heavily with Hank Pym, AKA Ant Man, AKA Giant Man, AKA Yellow Jacket.
About how unstable he is. About his insecurities. He thinks he is a failure as a husband, as a superhero, and as a scientist.
Parallel that with Ultron, a IA robot Pym created who becomes an enemy of the Avengers and all life. Almost like Ultron is, sort of, an extension of Pym's personality.

 

[Venom'sDad]

If they fight Hulk after Cap is revived, it could be Cap who delivers a decisive blow to bring Hulk down.

Having just watched Hulk Vs Wolverine, I quite like the idea of a team of supervillains/superpowered henchmen tracking and hunting the hulk in order to use him as a weapon. In the ensuing fight (at the start of the movie), Cap's body is released from the glacier like the deleted scene in Incredible Hulk.

I definitely have been a proponent of Hulk being the baddie, the team is after... but for all of the wrong reasons. I've said this before on the Hulk boards a long time ago.

Look... eventually the Avengers is going to severe ways with Nick Fury once they learn of his true motives. In the mean time, they're being decieved by SHIELD of the nature of Hulk and Bruce being a threat(not knowing that Bruce is trying to keep his condition from being used as a weapon); and after recieving reports that blames Hulk for a number of fatalities and costly destruction, the team goes after him... not knowing there is another that is actually responsible, Ravage, in which they will need Hulk's help

This allows for the team to bring Bruce/Hulk on board once everything is revealed in the end and the team cut ties with Nick. Meanwhile, we could be seeing the semblance of the rise of HYDRA or members of the Syndicate... or if they want to go the way of Thor's villain Loki.

Ravage could be a great setup in TIH2 with Prof. Crawford secretly test those quantities of Bruce's blood on himself and as a cliffhanger or something turns into Ravage fot the Avengers flick, while througout the film(TIH2), Bruce(still a fugitive) has to deal with The Leader and his creation/test subject, Wendigo(forget the curse thing) and Jink Slater as well, who has been hired by an unknown entity(either Nick, General Ross, or HYDRA) to subdue Bruce/Hulk for the ongoing research with the Super-Soldier Project.

This will give TIH franchise a means to conclude its run and finish the Leader story while tying it to the Avengers and Caps super soldier project.

 

[Artistsean]

In the Hulk movie they mention bringing a team together to fight the Hulk, Tony mentions it to Ross. So its logical to have the team face the Hulk first, even if its a brief scene where the Hulk lays them all out before escaping.
Maybe even show that Stark tried to get Banner to join the Avengers and use the Hulk to protect people. But have Banner/Hulk quickly exit the team for his own reasons.


More about Ultron as an Avengers villain: the Ultron idea is such a good parallel, and goes so well with Hank Pym's resentment of the Avengers. It would fit so well in having Ultron be an Avengers villain, but would also bring the Hank Pym character to the forefront of that Avengers story.
Plus he is such a massive enemy that it would require alll of Earth's mightiest heroes to banned together against the common foe.

Hank is a complex character, he has lots of issues. Including some hatred of his fellow Avengers like Tony Stark, who is rich, successful, and maybe even smarter than Pym. Pym even resents his wife.
Ultron could represent the living embodiment of those all feelings.

 

[chris moore]

The thing I always thought about the Pym/Strak smartest man thing is that Stark in only a genius in engineering and probably several fields of physics. Hank however is also a robotics expert (implying engineering, mechanics, electronics, computers, math etc) AND a biochemist expert - world renowed in both.

 

[Artistsean]

But he should feel inferior in comparison, not that its true just that he doesn't see himself that way.

I just read a story where Ant Man talks about how he always wondered what he brought to the table at the Avengers because he wasn't as powerful as the others, but he thought he was the smartest until one day he found out accidentally that Tony Stark was Iron Man.
He says something like Compared to Stark he wasn't a genius.

Even though he is a genius in various fields he feels inferior.


Later on, in whatever film the use Ultron in, the story can focus on Pym's unstableness and his resentments of his fellow Avengers like Stark and Janet. Ultron can be the personification of those feelings.
That could also be the movie where Pym has a break down, or maybe one film earlier, and where he hits Janet.
They should also show that he goes through various Superhero identities, but they might not.

 

[Jordacar]

I don't think they should have Ultron in the first Avengers movie. I just don't see any way of introducing him right off the bat. The Avengers wouldn't like a very competent team if right after they come together, one of their own creates a villain that can destroy humanity.

I have a radical idea that I know for sure they'll never use: Count Nefaria. No I'm not kidding, just hear me out for a minute, cuz this guy's no slouch.

Luchino Nefaria is this big wealthy aristocrat who's got a big fat company, not unlike Stark. Nefaria's is a private military company with a buttload of defense contracts (there's more of them to go around once Stark Industries stopped making weapons...). He's also secretly consorting with HYDRA, and secretly populating his private army with super-powered bad guys (in violation of the Super-Human Test Ban Treaty). If you've been watching the latest season of 24 (or seen State of Play), you can guess where this is going.

So I'd make taking down Hulk into the Avengers' first big action scene as a team. Meanwhile, there's this slow boil behind the scenes of Nefaria's and his company building power with HYDRA. There'd be plenty of Lethal Legion henchmen (and a few returning baddies from the previous movies), to give our heroes grief throughout. It could all build to an action-packed finale with all the Avengers + SHIELD vs. the Lethal Legion + HYDRA. And (straight out of the comics), Nefaria betrays his own guys when he absorbs and supercharges all their powers into himself, and fights all the Avengers alone.

There's a lot of blanks to fill in there, but I could definitely see it. And for god's sake, I hope the go ahead and just make it 2 1/2 hours.

 

[Jordacar]

double post

 

[Venom'sDad]

Jordacar, that idea sounds alot like mine... minus doing all of that in one film. Hulk/Bruce needs to be the fugitive the team is after until they discover that Ravage is the film's real villain, that is the one who needs to be stopped.

Look, the film will already have to deal with characters different personality and attitudes; as well as, the team chemistry meshing together as a unit. In the meantime, as I said in my version, as a set-up for the sequel, we could be seeing the semblance of the rise of HYDRA with A.I.M. developing the high-tech weaponry & super-soildiers and maybe even the Super-Adaptoid who can adapt the power, skill, and make-up of the team. Because, we are only going to get probably 2 Avengers movies with the original cast as they do their solo films.

Artistsean, as far as Ultron is concern... use him for the AntMan film. All that you say that would be good to parallel Pym's character and insecurities... can be done in his own film and some of those issues can still carry over to the Avengers film; entail, his dislike of some of the team.

Ultron would be good at displaying the power AntMan has, bring some intensity to the film, story, and battles, and the seriousness in creating such power and having to sacrifice himself in order to stop it. Otherwise, really, who else would bring any interest to the film and anticipated SFX that should be damn good at the least.

 

[3dman27]

I don't think they should have Ultron in the first Avengers movie. I just don't see any way of introducing him right off the bat. The Avengers wouldn't like a very competent team if right after they come together, one of their own creates a villain that can destroy humanity.

I have a radical idea that I know for sure they'll never use: Count Nefaria. No I'm not kidding, just hear me out for a minute, cuz this guy's no slouch.

Luchino Nefaria is this big wealthy aristocrat who's got a big fat company, not unlike Stark. Nefaria's is a private military company with a buttload of defense contracts (there's more of them to go around once Stark Industries stopped making weapons...). He's also secretly consorting with HYDRA, and secretly populating his private army with super-powered bad guys (in violation of the Super-Human Test Ban Treaty). If you've been watching the latest season of 24 (or seen State of Play), you can guess where this is going.

So I'd make taking down Hulk into the Avengers' first big action scene as a team. Meanwhile, there's this slow boil behind the scenes of Nefaria's and his company building power with HYDRA. There'd be plenty of Lethal Legion henchmen (and a few returning baddies from the previous movies), to give our heroes grief throughout. It could all build to an action-packed finale with all the Avengers + SHIELD vs. the Lethal Legion + HYDRA. And (straight out of the comics), Nefaria betrays his own guys when he absorbs and supercharges all their powers into himself, and fights all the Avengers alone.

There's a lot of blanks to fill in there, but I could definitely see it. And for god's sake, I hope the go ahead and just make it 2 1/2 hours.

good idea jordacar

 

[Rich Santoro]

That is a good idea... I wanted to see the story-line where Washington DC is held hostage (which included Nefaria). I think it was the X-Men who stopped him, but it can be moved to the Avengers.

In any event, my thoughts were... with all the current real-world issues around the use of para-military contractors, the story could be that someone has made inroads with several influential senators, the state department, and the DOD to get government security contracts... They get authorization to set up a training facility in VA (near DC), and then there is a mysterious attempt on the president's life. The Secret Service takes lots of casualties, and the president's security has to be augmented. The security contractors in question are brought it with fancy armored vehicles and advanced weapons... and boom, they make their move. Kidnap the president, and forcibly occupy the Pentagon. They set a perimeter with the president, his family, the VP, chief of staff, the joint chiefs, etc... all as hostages. Showing how that if you take the head, the rest will fall (the antithesis of the HYDRA motto).

They have some kind of WMD... and with the high value hostages, they are ready to name the entire US as a ransom. I originally thought that this would be good for the Cap film, with Strucker as the head of the faux security corporation (really a HYDRA operation) and a version of the Death spore would be his WMD (a variation of which has given him longevity). Cap manages to infitrate and free the president, and opens a window of opportunity for the military and SHIELD agents to strike. There is a lot of chaos, gun-fire, etc... Cap defeats Strucker causing HYDRA to retreat since this particular "head" has been neutralized.

The idea could be adapted for a full-on Avengers film rather than just Cap... but maybe with the Nefaria or Red Skull instead of Strucker. All kinds of ideas could be fleshed out...

 

[Drakon]

I like that idea, Rich, but we also have to keep in mind that if GIJOE does well this summer, then they might not want to do anything with HYDRA, since they're pretty much COBRA anyway.

 

[Rich Santoro]

^ good point... I didn't think of that.

Damn... most of my ideas for Avengers and Cap deal with HYDRA or AIM as a private army, and a major baddie like Skull or Strucker at the helm. But with GI Joe coming out, those ideas may need to be put back in the box for a while...

 

[chris moore]

Its cos Hydra is a good vessel for countless, nameless, faceless thugs to beat up. The key is not to put the team together by the military (SHIELD or otherwise) in response to a public, media covered terrorist threat. The team needs to be more of a "Fury's Howling Commandos" type team. Only Nick knows the team exists (despite public knowledge that IM is doing superhero things, the public and indeed the joint chiefs have no idea he's also part of a secret team), and they deal with threats Nick feels can't be handled by normal assets. This allows for no military angle whatsoever. Hawkeye isnt a soldier with a good eye, Cap isnt a re-enlisted soldier with special privilages, Pym isnt on the SHIELD payroll etc.

Something like Hydra can still work. But it needs to be an ancient evil that has only come to the surface because of a few remaining faithful in high places (thereby ensuring resources for whatever they find/try to do) have found something, the lynchpin of their organisation. Maybe the Ionic essence of Count Nefaria, whose powers have made him immortal (albeit at the moment, imprisoned somewhere) and given him a God complex that makes him believe he should have the Earth. Maybe the return of Kang from the future who had in the past posed as Rama Tut and led a golden age of conquest that his followers have long sought to restart and complete

 

[Venom'sDad]

^ You don't think that's too much to soon? That's alot of characters and plots you suggesting. I don't want the film bogged down and it should simply be more about the team learning to become a team while facing a percieved threat.

Now the plot you devised is very good if you are talking about it development over a series of films. Right now for the film film, IMO, needs to focus on the team as a unit, them learning from failure because of personal demons, ego, leadership, and skills they bring to the table.... again while facing a percieved threat.

 

[Rich Santoro]

I am not keen on the secret ID idea, since Cap is a icon for public consumption, IM zipping in for battle, not to mention Thor just standing there... would not be low-profile. I suppose the idea that they are a team can still be lept secret...

But, I see the team as having a very public component to them.

 

[chris moore]

Not secret identities - simply that they are individual heroes who Nick comes to when no one else can do the job. The team comes together that way a couple times (comprised of Tony, Hank, Clint, and Jan) at Nick's request but arent an official team the public cheers for or most likely even see (probably missions in deep jungles, island fortresses etc). Finding Cap, and the emergence of the major world destroying style threat forces the team to become more than individual heroes, more than even an occasional group no one knows works together - they have to become a symbol of what can be accomplished when examples of heroism and good come together and work together.