Civil War What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

[TheVileOne]

Was I mildly annoyed that Steve would sit on information like what happened to Tony Stark's parents? Yes. What reason does he have to keep that secret?

He didn't have to say "A part of me believes it was Bucky" but he had the moral obligation to tell Tony Stark if they are friends. Not to mention the fact that Howard was his friend and ally during the war. Howard helped make him into Captain America. He owed Tony the truth.

I'm glad this got addressed in Civil War, but yeah it is problematic why Steve never got around to telling Tony along with his explanation for why he didn't.

 

[Silvermoon]

There's one very weird thing... (and possible a huge plot hole)

SPOILERS (of course)

Zemo wants to know what happened December 17, 1991 from everybody he investigates. So he obviously does not know what happened. But what if the information he gets is completely useless for his purposes? Because he does not know what happened, yet his whole plan swirles around that december night...

His whole plot is so totally convenient. He finds exactly what he needs, although he does not know what he will find, there's some camera footage of the incident, althought it's somewhere on the road in deep woods, but it happens just in a front of some camera, all important members show up together, on the same place, at the same time, etc...

I think whatever information he decrypted from the HYDRA files let him know enough that something quite significant happened that night - otherwise he wouldn't have started his quest by going after Vasily Karpov, etc... I think he knew enough that he had a pretty good idea of what he would find (after all, the world does know when the Stark's died/had their 'accident') - that's why he knew he needed the location of the Siberian base.

Also, i don't know that wherever that was was in the 'deep woods'. That section of road was obviously used enough that it had street lights placed at regular intervals (and they all appeared lit, at least the ones we could see, so they were maintained). The camera was located along the edge of a gate or a fence - so marking the perimeter of some type of building or facility (my current speculation is that that's where Howard's ultimate destination was to drop off the serum - not the Pentagon - possibly some SHIELD facility, and if it had Hydra members staffed there - that could explain why the tape ended up in Hydra's hands).

Zemo's plan also depended on Sam telling Tony where exactly Cap and WS went.

I think Zemo probably had contingencies of what to do if Tony hadn't shown up. He probably had an escape plan to flee the facility and get the tape to Stark some other way. But I also think he figured it quite likely that Stark would be able to find his way there. After all, he called the hotel from Siberia with the sole intention of the body of the real doctor being found along with the Bucky prosthetics.

That's just my take/opinion on it, however.

 

[warcam]

They have only ever had two actors play him, one young and one old.

Three if you count this guy:

 

[Voltron]

He could have cut off Cap's limbs doing that. He's not trying to kill or maim Cap during the fight; the fact that he's holding back is why he loses.

Who said anything about IM killing or maiming Super Soldier Serumed Cap? I only said for IM to blast him in the legs to take him down.

 

[StormC]

I only said for IM to blast him in the legs to take him down.

A hot plasma beam could have very well cut off his legs. Hell, he just did it to Bucky's arm.

 

[IronManHype]

Absolutely. I don't know if Tony cared about his parents or not. How come this was the first time we heard they were murdered? Now he's meant to flip over about it? That's why they shoe horned in that bit at MIT (obviously a reshoot addition) because the set up was so weak.

Wait so you need things spelled out here, while in the BvS forum you complain when people want things spelled out in that movie?

Careful your bias is showing.

 

[JB33]

Wait so you need things spelled out here, while in the BvS forum you complain when people want things spelled out in that movie?

Careful your bias is showing.

Good point, but it's not even just that. Who needs a scene like that spelled out for them anyway?? Maybe some people just hate their parents and literally can't relate. Who knows?

 

[StormC]

I'm reeling from the idea that it needed to be explained why someone would be furious watching their parents get murdered. Good lord.

 

[Pokkle]

There's one very weird thing... (and possible a huge plot hole)

SPOILERS (of course)

Zemo wants to know what happened December 17, 1991 from everybody he investigates. So he obviously does not know what happened. But what if the information he gets is completely useless for his purposes? Because he does not know what happened, yet his whole plan swirles around that december night...

His whole plot is so totally convenient. He finds exactly what he needs, although he does not know what he will find, there's some camera footage of the incident, althought it's somewhere on the road in deep woods, but it happens just in a front of some camera, all important members show up together, on the same place, at the same time, etc...

He knew thanks to Hydra/shield files, he wanted the video.

 

[shadowboxxx]

What i didnt like is that our heroes are never in any danger.

Im not worried about a few hydra goons or German cops.

 

[Luke234]

Not a single guy died?? Not much of a war. Weak. Should have offed at least hawkeye, Rhodey..maybe couple others. They could have finally established high stakes, while also leaving room for new additions and not over stuffing even more. That and there's just never a good bad guy.

 

[Luke234]

Never a feeling of danger.

 

[Luke234]

Captain America being a jerk and lying to Tony so long. Hurts the character.

 

[BarryAllen]

Not a single guy died?? Not much of a war. Weak. Should have offed at least hawkeye, Rhodey..maybe couple others. They could have finally established high stakes, while also leaving room for new additions and not over stuffing even more. That and there's just never a good bad guy.

The Russos already said that having someone die would be taking the easy way out. We just got done seeing Quicksilver die in Age of Ultron, which lacked any resonance. Rather than have someone die in this movie, we get to see everyone alive, but the team fractured and broken to the point where we wonder, is it possible their wounds can heal? Can things ever go back to the way they were? That's a lot more interesting.

 

[Luke234]

Of course they will. We know this. Why not kill off guys to make room and actually have stakes? Just continues to be too kid friendly.

 

[Luke234]

I'd disagree with Russo's big time. Dying easy way out?? Silly. We know they'll get back together. Killing even 1 character would let you question whether someone could die in future movies. Lame.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Rhodey should have died.

 

[TeeKay]

Yes let's kill off the black guy.

 

[TheVileOne]

That was Marcum and McFeely's explanation more than the Russos I think. I'm really not sure someone dying really would've resolved the conflict. Wouldn't it have only succeeded in making things worse and increased the divide? Maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe they think someone dying would've gotten everyone to stand down and go, "We've gone too far. We have to stop."

 

[TheVileOne]

Captain America being a jerk and lying to Tony so long. Hurts the character.

I'm not crazy about his justification for why he did that. That being said, I'm grateful they addressed it at least.

 

[Luke234]

Parents thing seems shoehorned too anyway. But more than anything just there's just no stakes in any of these movies. I think it's great these movies are here for kids and it's like a pirates of the carribean type action/ comedies. But I'll be waiting to watch the rest of marvel flicks when they come on tv I think.

 

[halo10]

-I couldn’t believe the shaky-jumpy-jittery camera scenes in the beginning of the film wasn’t brought up more. It made it incredibly annoying, irriating, and distracting to view.

From the first action scene with the anti-terrorist, the Bucky/Rogers apartment raid to the Black Panther speeding freeway scene. I couldn’t peel back and relax instead of squinting, straining to try you clearly see the fighting actin going on.

Winter Soldier's action scenes was crystal clear and far more enjoyable to see than Civil War, so why couldn’t the very same producers and directors of the Winter Soldier do the very same thing for Civiil Car ?

-Another big disappointment was the sabotage by Zemo who murdered the Super-Soldiers while they lay coma-state. much had been built up for a likely superheroes vs super-soldiers showdown – but that dream fight was immediately killed off.

-Even after 2 Avengers-related films, and I still can’t get into the Vision’s character-something missing, is he too bland, is he not curious enough, not cold-robotic enough, whatever not interesting- not appealing.

-Hawkeye remains the dullest non-factor of a superhero around. i think a lot has to do with Jeremy Renner and the or that there’s a failure in character-development. but Hawkeye character is absolute boring. Zzzzzzzzz. i almost wish they could re-cast or re-develop this one.

-Spiderman ? I could live with or without – maybe the past Spiderman movies and missed so badly and burnt me out that I’m not ready for a reboot goofiness – and by the way was it explained how Stark knew Peter Parker was Spiderman.


-I thought it odd for the usual outlandish humorous Tony Stark was quite subdued in this one, kinda offsets the purpose of having the enormous popular Stark blending in with Cap.
My only guesswork would be they didn’t want Stark overpowering Steve Roger and his film.

-Black Widow’s instant change of mind to Team A was too rushed and fake fraud. I never saw her previously fight with mixed emotions and confusion.

I know this is about what we DIDN"T like .. but i'll have to add my 2 cents extra on what I DID like about Civil War:

-I love the black panther !... I liked how they brought him onto the first arrival, I love the way Chadwick displayed him as prince T’Challa’ . his anguish and revenge-drive mode
vs Bucky, .. the costume design, .. the way Panther fight in the Civil showdown, ( I would love the freeway fight if not for the jumpy-shaky camera work) .. the way Panther spared the life of Zemo, in the face of justice rather than revenge.
He left you wanting to see him more of him – he had attracting appeal and intrigue to him than doesn’t come close to showing with Hawkeye or the Vision.

-I also like the Scarlet Witch – she’s young, eager to belong, fight for lives and freedom . And she won’t step down to be hidden or swayed away from it. Not even by her appointed leaders, not even by her tragic mistake.
I liked her look and her powers and how the CGI special effects put to display her hex powers – looked so cool.

-The marvelous superhero vs superhero battle at the airport help make up for the atrocious camera work in the 1st half of the film, (which was much better and clearer during this epic fight) Team Captain America (Capt. America, Scarlet Witch, Winter Soldier, Falcon, Ant-Man) vs Team Iron Man (Iron man, War Machine, Black Widow, Spider-Man, Hawkeye, Vision) let us view see the mixture and blend of superpowers and strategic counter-attacking against another Superhuman powered group with acrobats, shrinking to gigantic, chasing, target-aiming, brilliant hand to hand combat, bionic vs spidey-powers, flying drone-gadgets, sky-air maneuvers.

 

[AndyBeau]

Flaws? I'll admit that I found a good number of flaws in Civil War, for which I'll shamelessly share an article criticizing the film.

Civil War Hyperbolic Critique

Without reading all the comments, though I will, something I would have liked to see is T'Chaka react as if still the Black Panther. Granted, he's older and the reigns are largely now in the hands of T'Challa, so I'm not expecting him to whip out some martial arts just then. However, wouldn't it have been cool to see T'Chaka react to avoid the explosion set off by the alleged Winter Soldier in the streets below? Maybe some obvious awareness of it before it happened, like an aggressive glance or quick shift to dive away from the impending explosion?

 

[emergencyfan]

I couldn't find a Hawkeye thread so I hope this is a good place to post this.

Can someone explain why Hawkeye was sent to The Raft? I can think of a few reasons but none of them stick:

(1) Breaking and entering (to get Wanda). Unless they made the Avengers facility off limits to former Avengers once the Accords were signed, breaking and entering wouldn't relevant. Besides, I'm sure Wanda would back Clint and say she invited him in.

(2) Assault (of Vision). IF Vision decided to press charges then maybe assault, but you don't get sent to the middle of the ocean (with no trial) for assault, even assault with a deadly weapon.

(3) Aiding/abetting a fugitive (accessory before the fact/perpetrator). As far as I can tell, there is nothing in the Accords about penalties for non-enhanced aiding/abetting enhanced.

According to what I can find on the web, the Accords state:

• The Avengers will no longer be a private organization, and will now be operating under the supervision of the United Nations.
• Enhanced individuals (including the Avengers) will no longer have authorization to cross international boundaries at any time they wish.
• Enhanced individuals must be given clearance by a nation's government or a United Nation subcommittee before taking any action in that country, either on their own or as a part of an organization (such as the Avengers or S.H.I.E.L.D.).
• Any enhanced individual who does not sign the Accords may not take part in any national or global conflict, nor may they participate in any missions undertaken by the Avengers, S.H.I.E.L.D., or any other paramilitary/intelligence organization.
• If any enhanced individual takes any unauthorized action, or obstructs the actions of those who are acting in accordance with the Accords, they will be arrested.[1]
• Enhanced individuals who break the law, violate the accords, or are otherwise deemed to be a threat to the public may be detained indefinitely without trial.
• All enhanced individuals with innate powers (including all Inhumans) have to wear tracking bracelets.
• The creation of self-aware A.I. is prohibited.

Technically Hawkeye is not an "enhanced individual" (unless you're going to register every bow hunter and archery competitor) and he wasn't working for a private organization at the time. So you can argue none of the accords (as written) apply to him.

Hawkeye seems to have rented/leased a helicopter at the airport ("I've got a chopper lined up") so he had every legal right to be there. If you think about it, Team Ironman prevented him from leaving peacefully on said helicopter (not to mention Tony's false imprisonment of Wanda). All the airport fighting could be argued as self-defense on Hawkeye's part (again, not likely one of Team Ironman is going to press assault charges) and his arrows really didn't do any property damage.

At most, he should be cooling his heels in a German jail cell awaiting deportation to the US.

 

[Silvermoon]

My guess is that, they would consider him an enhanced individual via his use of technology. It's not just that he's an expert bowman/marksman, but it's that combined with the technology he uses with his bow and arrows (exploding arrow tips, arrows that split into multiple arrows, etc...).

Sam is essentially the same way. He's technically not enhanced either... but give him access to the wing pack?