• The upgrade to XenForo 2.3.7 has now been completed. Please report any issues to our administrators.

Whats Marvels goal with the Ultimates?

ShadowBoxing said:
Then the Ultimate Universe doesn't change a damn thing and your precious nostalgia is still in tact. Ultimate Universe uses characters from the 40s (the first Universe to "revive Bucky") the 60s (Spider-Man, X-Men, FF), the 70s (the Defenders), the 80s (Mojo, Venom) and the 90s (Carnage, Deadpool, Gambit, Cable) in forms recognizable and linked to the originals. Nostalgia preserved.


The last time I checked, Deadpool wasn't a racist cyborg with no healing factor and no face. And seeing as I have almost all of his comics and the ones he appears in then I think I would have noticed that.
 
I can see the ultimate universe supplanting the 616 if its around for another decade. If you noticed the art recently, with the exception of peter parker everyone has reverted to the look of the 616 world. I can see the comics not being called ULTIMATE *insert name*. But i think that we will have a definite answer when the books gain another series to complement the main(amazing and spectacular spiderman).
 
Horhey said:
616 FF is far better than Ultimate FF and Ultimate X-Men used to be better than the 616 version. Maybe it will be again when Kirkman leaves the book.
Right now I am favoring the book where Reed Richards is not a massive tool, Sue is not pretending to be her brother's wife (and being a ****e with Namor) and Thing is...well...okay Thing is still cool....

Hell 616 Fantastic Four is starting to make me want Doom to win.
 
That's another issue: in the Ultimate line, I'm often rooting for the other side. Ultimate Hulk eating the Ultimates would have honestly been better. Gah-Lak-Tus (while a poor excuse for a villain much less an armada) destroying the Earth wasn't exactly what I call a bad idea. Time after time, I honestly find the prospect of villain killing the Ultimate envisionment of a hero an okay idea. Often I find that the Ultimate characters are watered-down versions of the classic embodiments, a sordid attempt at adding modern environment and 'life-like' issues to characters that work best with neither. Hence the reason I pretty much stick to USM, even though some of the worst examples of Ultimatization (Ult. Deadpool comes to mind) were showcased in it- while the Ult. Goblins are annoying, Bendis understands that when you take the timeless formula and add a relatively new varnish you end up with something that can be enjoyed.

Darthphere brings up a good point- seldom does a remake surpass an original. But I feel that the Ultimate line had the chance to. I've given up on it because Marvel squandered that chance with the major titles by attempting to attract only one demographic and adding in shock tactics with classic characters just as they're now starting to do with 616.
 
ChibiKiriyama said:
Darthphere brings up a good point- seldom does a remake surpass an original. But I feel that the Ultimate line had the chance to. I've given up on it because Marvel squandered that chance with the major titles by attempting to attract only one demographic and adding in shock tactics with classic characters just as they're now starting to do with 616.
I don't think it's really a question of surpassing the original. I honestly like the original Nutty Professor and Dr Dolittle better than the new one. Dawn of the Dead 2004 makes more money film and DVD sales wise than the original. Transformers G1 is not nearly as big a property as the recent merchandise, nor is it going to be as big as the Michael bay film...no matter how much it betrays the source material.

It all goes back to marketing. Better is an abstract concept. Old men sit in chairs and talk about how "walking fifteen miles in the snow to school was better...back in dem old days". Most fans who grew up with 616 value that sometimes hokey, Stan Lee envisioned Universe. However out of my three friends who I take to the comic store...only I am the one who sits on my soapbox and exclaims "Kirby is God" and "classic is better". Everyone else despises the non-computer enhanced art, the exposition filled dialogue, the dated personality traits and lines, etc. I think the stuff is art.

About two or three years back Quesada was mouthing off about Born Again...and you think him trashing to Spider-Man marriage was bad...he was criticizing the writing as being exposition filled. His main criticism being that Ben Urich had to repeatedly remind us "I'm a reporter" because [due to the abscence of trades] a random reader would need to understand who he was in the story. Now, I personally think "Born Again" ranks only second to the Phoenix/Dark Phoenix Saga as the best comics ever written. But hey, that's me. My friend thought it sucked. Is it really actually better than say "The Tomorrow People" or "Ultimates". I suppose we could have some english professor come on here and break the stories down. But what the f*** would that matter to anyone, nothing.

People don't care about our notion of quality. We think Galactus is better, we think an X-Men movie trilogy based directly on John Bryne stories would work, we think every comic should cater to our desires and call people out on continuity errors and bad storylines. But the truth is entertainment industries grow and change and try to attract new blood to replace the old. That is what Ultimates (and once upon a time DCs Silver Age) was designed to do. And one day those new fans will most likely call the shots.

And to be quiet "real" about all this. A lot of fans make that "I would stop buying if they did this excuse" whenever some sort of discussion along the lines of major shifts or changes takes place. I used to believe this was the case...sadly it's not. Fans (on here even) will buy anything. People here complain about Kirkman's run on Ultimate X-Men...well doesn't that mean you are buying it and reading it? Or the unmasking of Spider-Man in the lines best selling mini...So I truly doubt there is not much Marvel couldn't get away with.
 
ShadowBoxing said:
Same reason Silver Age eventually took over DC...Ultimate Universe has more options, more storylines to explore. I'm a 616 fan, but from a creative standpoint the Ultimate Universe is a far more lucritive property. It's not full of messy retcons yet either.
Silver Age didn't "eventually take over." DC pretty well switched over all their characters at about the same time, with a few Golden Age stories scattered around through the years. And then they replaced it all with Modern Age.
 
Shadowboxing, I agree with the sentiment, as well as the comment- Bay will rape the G1 plot blind and make a killing off of the people who are going to go see it solely because it's a Transformers film.

To the comments on quality: I believe it's not the 'flashy demeanor' people want. It's the characters. The "meat and gravy", if you will. The UMU is foreign to most, and it's attempt to rush through the 616 is going to eventually exhaust the novelty of 'flashy demeanor' when we see how Marvel handles the prospect of this new universe. 616, while at the point where people easily forget the classics, is still the definitive Marvel. I bet you 50 years from now we'll still be seeing Spidey in red and blue duds, no matter how many Iron-Spideys come. I bet you 50 years from now no one will remember the grey Hulk that ate people. I bet you 50 years from now Gah-Lak-Tus will be a gurgling sound babies make after choking on oatmeal, and nothing more.

Why? The Ultimate Universe, to me, lacks the glue the "hokey" 616 once sported. When I open up an old 616 comic, I feel like the people behind the book actually cared about the fans and making satisfying stories. Did the tales become convoluted? Yes. But nevertheless it appealed to many demographics. The UMU tries to "bring the classics to the real world" in an unnecessary manner, and is ironically nonexistent in the mindset of the demographic it initially aimed for. As said before, I see more people more interested in manga than comics. I see people in their 30's and 40's at comicstands, and droves of teens at the malls buying manga. It's not because it's flashy or new. It's because the stories, however childish some people consider them, are appealing. I go to read a Marvel book nowadays and see someone punching another person's heart out, multiple OOC moments using classic icons and no real draw-in. There is no better day, just mounting conflict and the erosion of long-standing characters to fufill a point.

To me the real issue is not quality in the worldly sense, but in the timeless sense. Manga-ka, in particular, know when to end things. While some tales go on for a long time, there's no fear of time changing the tale or of keeping the characters recognizable. Nowadays comics lack that, and continue to show their age. This is why I believe the UMU is futile- comics are already entering the public view as memorabilia rather than a worthwhile trend, and so long as companies such as Marvel aim at one demographic and one demographic only it will continue as such.
 
ShadowBoxing said:
Right now I am favoring the book where Reed Richards is not a massive tool, Sue is not pretending to be her brother's wife (and being a ****e with Namor) and Thing is...well...okay Thing is still cool....

Hell 616 Fantastic Four is starting to make me want Doom to win.


I mustve missed the page where Sue was ****ing namor.:whatever:
 
Well, Im starting to think Ultimate X-Men is beyond repair thanks to Robert Kirkman. This title had alot of potential but Ive been so discusted with it Im thinking about canceling my subscription. I just dont see how this series can be improved. Its an abomination really.

Ultimate Cable and Sabretooth being Wolverine's son is just silly. Wolverine's arch enemy is his son? Cheese extreme.. :whatever:
 
Horhey said:
Well, Im starting to think Ultimate X-Men is beyond repair thanks to Robert Kirkman. This title had alot of potential but Ive been so discusted with it Im thinking about canceling my subscription. I just dont see how this series can be improved. Its an abomination really.

Ultimate Cable and Sabretooth being Wolverine's son is just silly. Wolverine's arch enemy is his son? Cheese extreme.. :whatever:
The Sabretooth thing wasn't a creation of Kirkman; I'm pretty sure it happened in some prior arc. I forget which.

I'm still reading it, but I'm really not a fan. And especially won't be if he [blackout]kills off another original 5 character[/blackout]. Which is being rumoured/speculated.

Anyway, I never saw Ultimate as a replacement of 616. It was to run parallel to grab money from those not interested in going into 616 back history, and I don't think there's a problem with that. The market exists, so it makes sense for Marvel to serve it.
 
Darthphere said:
I mustve missed the page where Sue was ****ing namor.:whatever:
Yeah but I did not miss the issue where she skinny dips with Black Panther.
 
triplefive said:
The Sabretooth thing wasn't a creation of Kirkman; I'm pretty sure it happened in some prior arc. I forget which.

I'm still reading it, but I'm really not a fan. And especially won't be if he [blackout]kills off another original 5 character[/blackout]. Which is being rumoured/speculated.

Anyway, I never saw Ultimate as a replacement of 616. It was to run parallel to grab money from those not interested in going into 616 back history, and I don't think there's a problem with that. The market exists, so it makes sense for Marvel to serve it.

Nah, the Sabretooth cheese belongs to Kirkman. Ive got every Ultimate X vol. He is a disaster for the book. Im pretty sure the new writer whoever it is will try to find some way to retcon the damage hes done.
 
Yeah, I have every issue of UltXM too... I thought it happened sometime during or before Magnetic North, but I was wrong, it happened during Phoenix?. :up:
 
triplefive said:
Yeah, I have every issue of UltXM too... I thought it happened sometime during or before Magnetic North, but I was wrong, it happened during Phoenix?. :up:

Nah, it happenned during Date Night #67.
 
oh right, after the bar fight. or something.
ugh, i forget everything after magnetic north!
 
triplefive said:
oh right, after the bar fight. or something.
ugh, i forget everything after magnetic north!

"Magnetic North" was great but so far none of the arcs have been as good as "The Tommorow People." Reading that arc was like watching a really good movie. Im hoping the next writer picks up where Magnetic North left off or finnally fully introduce Ultimate Apocalypse.
 
ShadowBoxing said:
Yeah but I did not miss the issue where she skinny dips with Black Panther.


So being comfortable with her body=****e. You must be a hit with the ladies. Funny how you said Namor, called you out on it, then you switched gears.
 
Darthphere said:
So being comfortable with her body=****e. You must be a hit with the ladies. Funny how you said Namor, called you out on it, then you switched gears.
She's had sex with Namor. When you get in a tif with your man and you go shack up with a buff dictator with an undersea kingdom...you're most likely a ****e.

...And no if you're dating someone they should not be skinny dipping with another man, and certainly not while he is not around.
 
Dude, thats completely different and ****ing stupid logic. There have been countless pages with jean and Scott in bed together. C'mon SB, youre better than this.
 
As a long time on and off collector I hope the ultimate universe fades away. Do we really need to have every single detail explained. And everybody is a genetic mutant. Thank God they haven't started ultimate movies. And they are keeping with 616.

I always liked the fact that you could easily trace issues, now they are so many volumes it's more confusing than ever. I wish Marvel didnot fall into the trap of creating multiple volumes per character. Creating multiple volumes also makes a comic lose its history and a sense. Now when I try to find a story arc, I have to really make sure I'm in the right volume of that particular character.

PS Whatever Happened to Universe X? Was that their first try that failed?
 
As a relative newcomer to the forums, i really don't kow how well this is going to be received, especially from what I've read about most people's opinion. But 616 and the ultimate universe will never replace each other or fuse like DC had to. Why? Because they are completely different. They have the same characters, that's it. You could say "that's a pretty bg 'that's it,' but even the characters aren't the same (not to mention that ultimate writer's have no problem killing off characters they didn't enjoy seeing in the 616 universe). We'll extract FF and UFF from this because reading i find them very similar (Thing is smarter, and Johnny is dumber, Whoopee doo, a rather disappointing switch really, 'cause now thing isn't as dumb as a rock, which was always a good pun).
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"