The Amazing Spider-Man When and how should Gwen Stacy die?

[Dagenspear]

Can you really say that it was self defense when the man was wrestling a man that could have been twice his age? I understand that innocent until proven guilty in the real world, but I just think that the director wanted to show that the thief shot Uncle Ben on purpose.

But you don't KNOW that, now, do you? Even if though, I'd have to see this proven on screen by the character himself.

 

[Web face]

But you don't KNOW that, now, do you? Even if though, I'd have to see this proven on screen by the character himself.

Even if he said it himself, how would we KNOW that he isn't lying? Like I said, it is all up to however the viewer wants to interpret it. We clearly interpret it differently.

 

[Dagenspear]

I am not saying he is evil and I am not saying that he doesn't have some humanity in him. I am just saying that I am pretty sure that he shot the gun on purpose at that moment. I said it before, he may regret it, but I don't think the gun going off was a complete accident. Also, if you say that I don't have the right to say to think that he shot on purpose, what gives you the right to say he didn't mean it? What gives you the right to say that I am wrong in my thinking? It doesn't matter, we interpret it differently, now lets move on.

You're condemning someone based on the peremiters of "pretty sure" and "don't think". That's what gives me the right to say you're wrong, which I never said, by the way, but judging someone, based on those standards, is wrong. It's "innocent until proven guilty", NOT "undecided until proven guilty". So therefore, he is innocent, and must be refered to as such, until proven otherwise.

 

[Dagenspear]

Even if he said it himself, how would we KNOW that he isn't lying? Like I said, it is all up to however the viewer wants to interpret it. We clearly interpret it differently.

I meant through his actions, or through some sort of CSI like evidence. Probably won't happen though. lol.

 

[LegendAssemble]

If you think it's a good story and you wouldn't want it changed, good for you. It's your opinion and no one can change it. Dagenspear thinks it shouldn't be done in the movies and it's his opinion (and one that I proudly agree with). All the points he is are logical because they are to him. They aren't bad points because they are based upon his perception of the story. So technically, you attacking him makes no sense whatsoever.

Why are you defending him so much? His defense is that it wouldn't make sense for her to die, when it's been built up to the whole movie. What defense is there? That comics for old stories? Then why should Peter even have a similar origin? I don't agree with a lot of people on here. I think Rogue-Kira is wrong for example in saying that Spider-Man 1 and 2 are popcorn flicks but he has a valid argument and sticks to it so I respect his views.

This guy's argument is basically just well worded, nothing, that contradicts itself, and I don't agree with it so I'm going to argue my reasoning. Yes by your logic that is attacking, but telling me just to shut up and leave him alone by anyone's logic is also attacking me now isn't it?

 

[LegendAssemble]

It making Peter grow wasn't the argument though, YOU said that it's "more powerful", and personally I disagree with both, I'd find it far more powerful if Peter beats the **** out of the Green Goblin with an inch of his life, he just pummels him senseless, and he's about to kill him, he wants to kill him, he wants to more than anything, BUT then he thinks about Gwen and Ben, and he'd know that this isn't what they'd want for him, this isn't what they'd want him to be, and just can't do it, then Goblin tries to sneak the glider on him, or something similar, and BAM classic death, and Peter just in horror, knowing that he could've done that, that he almost did, and he'd from it. However, what I'd find more powerful is for the Lizard to save Gwen after Goblin throws her off the bridge, or something similar, and then helps Peter fight the Goblin, dying in the process, but redeeming himself, and Peter and Gwen can get engaged and married, and take the story of Spider-Man into a new direction for a new generation, and have a happy ending. I'd find that SO MUCH MORE powerful than anything death and pain can offer.No, it's not Law and Order, but that shouldn't matter. It's what's right.I am. Of course I am. An innocent man died. Who would be okay with that? What kind of a person would be okay with that? He died, and I didn't want it to happen, but it's the origin, and origins can't really be changed that much, and it's already happened, it's in the past, whining about something that's already happened isn't going to make it NOT happen. Better to argue why someone else SHOULDN'T die, someone who doesn't even HAVE TO, beyond pleasing fanboys. Which is disgusting by the way. I can't even fathom why someone would want Gwen to die.

Because thats the story of Spider-Man and thats what makes him so relatable. His story is one of personal tragedy, and learning to cope and make the tough choices because life doesn't have happy endings. Pain and suffering is a part of growing up, theres a difference between a boy and a man, and that is innocence. The idea that everything will work out for the best and not go south, and sometimes you have to whats hard.

Gwen is going to die, because it was the only real thing this movie built up to, besides the parents. The whole Captain Stacy speech and the "promises being broken" thing was foreshadowing. If you want happy endings, then watch something else. The point of an adaptation is different based upon what it is you are adapting. In a series of books like Harry Potter, James Bond, you just follow the source material, but in comics its capturing the feelings the tones that have been put into these stories spanning over 50 years.

Look at Spider-Mans history. His uncle? Murdered. His relations with Betty, ruined by a misunderstanding. His relations with Gwen? Doomed when she blames his alter ego for her fathers murder. Gwen? Dead because he didn't save her the right way. Ben Riely? Dies saving Peter. His daughter? Still born. His best friend? Succumbed to drugs and fell into madness. His job? Helping a man lead a mud throwing campaign against himself. His status with MJ? Separated to save his Aunt (not the best one but still fits).

The story of Spider-Man isn't happy endings and this story is one of the best examples of it.

Also after SM3 I dont want to see a villain hero team up for some time.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Because thats the story of Spider-Man and thats what makes him so relatable. His story is one of personal tragedy, and learning to cope and make the tough choices because life doesn't have happy endings. Pain and suffering is a part of growing up, theres a difference between a boy and a man, and that is innocence. The idea that everything will work out for the best and not go south, and sometimes you have to whats hard.

Gwen is going to die, because it was the only real thing this movie built up to, besides the parents. The whole Captain Stacy speech and the "promises being broken" thing was foreshadowing. If you want happy endings, then watch something else. The point of an adaptation is different based upon what it is you are adapting. In a series of books like Harry Potter, James Bond, you just follow the source material, but in comics its capturing the feelings the tones that have been put into these stories spanning over 50 years.

Look at Spider-Mans history. His uncle? Murdered. His relations with Betty, ruined by a misunderstanding. His relations with Gwen? Doomed when she blames his alter ego for her fathers murder. Gwen? Dead because he didn't save her the right way. Ben Riely? Dies saving Peter. His daughter? Still born. His best friend? Succumbed to drugs and fell into madness. His job? Helping a man lead a mud throwing campaign against himself. His status with MJ? Separated to save his Aunt (not the best one but still fits).

The story of Spider-Man isn't happy endings and this story is one of the best examples of it.

Also after SM3 I dont want to see a villain hero team up for some time.

As often as I disagree with this guy, this is one time I think he is right.

I agree (and I think most would agree) that Gwen has to die for the sake of telling Peter's story. We can only hope that it is done properly, beautifully even...

Hell, even Emma Stone agrees:

http://tinyurl.com/7x98p5o

 

[Web face]

You're condemning someone based on the peremiters of "pretty sure" and "don't think". That's what gives me the right to say you're wrong, which I never said, by the way, but judging someone, based on those standards, is wrong. It's "innocent until proven guilty", NOT "undecided until proven guilty". So therefore, he is innocent, and must be refered to as such, until proven otherwise.

He is already guilty, he still murdered a whether it was accidental or not. There is nothing innocent about killing a man because you either; a.) don't know how to use the safety on a gun, b.) have a gun with a broken safety, or c.) accidentally turning off the safety of the gun and accidentally pulling the trigger while wrestling with the man over the gun. Also, no, you do not have the right to tell me my interpretation of the scene is wrong (and I know, you are not saying it is), because I don't have to prove anything. I think the man shot him on purpose even though there is nothing to prove that he did. You think it was an accident even though you have nothing to prove that. I think that there is more to say that it was intentional than there is to say that it was accidental. You think the opposite. We have given each other evidence to support our views and we still disagree. We have different opinions. We can keep going in circles if you really want to, or we can just accept that we disagree and move on.

 

[Web face]

I meant through his actions, or through some sort of CSI like evidence. Probably won't happen though. lol.

Mostly because normal human beings don't care about this as much as we do lol.

 

[LegendAssemble]

He is already guilty, he still murdered a whether it was accidental or not. There is nothing innocent about killing a man because you either; a.) don't know how to use the safety on a gun, b.) have a gun with a broken safety, or c.) accidentally turning off the safety of the gun and accidentally pulling the trigger while wrestling with the man over the gun. Also, no, you do not have the right to tell me my interpretation of the scene is wrong (and I know, you are not saying it is), because I don't have to prove anything. I think the man shot him on purpose even though there is nothing to prove that he did. You think it was an accident even though you have nothing to prove that. I think that there is more to say that it was intentional than there is to say that it was accidental. You think the opposite. We have given each other evidence to support our views and we still disagree. We have different opinions. We can keep going in circles if you really want to, or we can just accept that we disagree and move on.

Web-face you must have some sort of "vendetta" and "need to stop attacking this guy"

I'm glad I'm not the only one here who can see that the argument is flat.

 

[Kelly]

Guys let's dial it down in here....we aren't discussing world peace, you are just discussing your ideas and opinions in here for a movie. Everyone has them and has every right to give them. So, lets stop calling people trolls, and telling people to shut up. Discuss the topic at hand, and have a good time doing it.

Play nice....

 

[Web face]

Web-face you must have some sort of "vendetta" and "need to stop attacking this guy"

I'm glad I'm not the only one here who can see that the argument is flat.

I am not saying that his argument is flat, that is not what I want to get across at all. He just has a different opinion than me (and apparently you). Although I happen to agree with you here, I do want to kindly ask that you don't have discussions with him if you can't keep it civil. When I see the both of you debating, it isn't pretty. I personally don't have anything against you, but please, like Kelly said, play nice.

 

[LegendAssemble]

Guys let's dial it down in here....we aren't discussing world peace, you are just discussing your ideas and opinions in here for a movie. Everyone has them and has every right to give them. So, lets stop calling people trolls, and telling people to shut up. Discuss the topic at hand, and have a good time doing it.

Play nice....

I feel yah, thanks for being unbiased there too. I'll admit my part in taking it a little far there.

 

[Dagenspear]

Because that's the story of Spider-Man and thats what makes him so relatable. His story is one of personal tragedy, and learning to cope and make the tough choices because life doesn't have happy endings. Pain and suffering is a part of growing up, theres a difference between a boy and a man, and that is innocence.

And this is where you lose me. Because this is just wrong. Innocence, hope, love, you need that to really live. If you don't have that, then what's the point? A REAL mature adult understands that life can suck, but it can also be beautiful. Good things happen everyday. Maybe you should drop the juvenile cynicism, and actually look for it. Spider-Man hasn't been a practice in relatability in a long time, it's been a string of endless torture. And I'm sorry, but I wanna see a character I care about actually be happy, NOT miserable, because I don't get my jollies off by watching decent people be in pain. I care about what's actually best for them.

 

[Kelly]

And this is where you lose me. Because this is just wrong. Innocence, hope, love, you need that to really live. If you don't have that, then what's the point? A REAL mature adult understands that life can suck, but it can also be beautiful. Good things happen everyday. Maybe you should drop the juvenile cynicism, and actually look for it. Spider-Man hasn't been a practice in relatability in a long time, it's been a string of endless torture. And I'm sorry, but I wanna see a character I care about actually be happy, NOT miserable, because I don't get my jollies off by watching decent people be in pain. I care about what's actually best for them.

Um, did you miss a post up there.......dial it down.

 

[spida-man]

Harry Potter is an exception because it chronicles the growth of a boy through his pre-teen years to coming of age. A time period where people change on an almost constant basis. Change is what makes us interested in watching the character in a movie. Sure we'd all love a simple short Spidey adventure, but it wouldn't be memorable it'd just kind of fade away. The problem is that eventually the character gets sucked into a stunted state of near growth, constantly learning the same lesson and not really changing as fast as a real person would because they need to make more movies.

It's better to set a number on these things so you can make the best stories possible. Also like you said theres 50 years of stories rather than solid books, like Harry Potter and Twilight which also had set numbers.

It is possible, but it would need to be something they planned from the start in order not to end up like Raimi Spider-Man films, the 90s Batman films, or the Superman franchise.

u really think Spidey movies would get stuck in a stunted state of growth and can't mature and grow like a simple book series such as HP?

gimme a break

if thats the case why do ppl keep reading the comics? how is it writers keep finding new and interesting ways to push the character in new directions and help the character develop and grow more?

there is ALWAYS a story to be told. it just has to be the write time, the right place, the right story and the right writer.

there is no excuse for sticking to the cliche and over done/over used trilogy formula

 

[Web face]

And this is where you lose me. Because this is just wrong. Innocence, hope, love, you need that to really live. If you don't have that, then what's the point? A REAL mature adult understands that life can suck, but it can also be beautiful. Good things happen everyday. Maybe you should drop the juvenile cynicism, and actually look for it. Spider-Man hasn't been a practice in relatability in a long time, it's been a string of endless torture. And I'm sorry, but I wanna see a character I care about actually be happy, NOT miserable, because I don't get my jollies off by watching decent people be in pain. I care about what's actually best for them.

I'm sorry to jump in a conversation that doesn't involve me, but that's the best part of spider-man. Everything both you and LegendAssemble said. He goes through so much pain, and so much suffering but he still gets through it all. At the end of the day, he is still the happy wisecracking web head that still has hope. He is a glimmer of light in a sometimes very dark world. When he is finally happy, you are also happy for him. You feel like this guy earned it.

 

[Rogue Kira]

Because thats the story of Spider-Man and thats what makes him so relatable. His story is one of personal tragedy, and learning to cope and make the tough choices because life doesn't have happy endings. Pain and suffering is a part of growing up, theres a difference between a boy and a man, and that is innocence. The idea that everything will work out for the best and not go south, and sometimes you have to whats hard.

Gwen is going to die, because it was the only real thing this movie built up to, besides the parents. The whole Captain Stacy speech and the "promises being broken" thing was foreshadowing. If you want happy endings, then watch something else. The point of an adaptation is different based upon what it is you are adapting. In a series of books like Harry Potter, James Bond, you just follow the source material, but in comics its capturing the feelings the tones that have been put into these stories spanning over 50 years.

Look at Spider-Mans history. His uncle? Murdered. His relations with Betty, ruined by a misunderstanding. His relations with Gwen? Doomed when she blames his alter ego for her fathers murder. Gwen? Dead because he didn't save her the right way. Ben Riely? Dies saving Peter. His daughter? Still born. His best friend? Succumbed to drugs and fell into madness. His job? Helping a man lead a mud throwing campaign against himself. His status with MJ? Separated to save his Aunt (not the best one but still fits).

The story of Spider-Man isn't happy endings and this story is one of the best examples of it.

Also after SM3 I dont want to see a villain hero team up for some time.

We Dont Agree on alot of things on here. But you are Absolutely right.
I also thank you for respecting my views. I may have been wrong about the whole popcorn thing.

WE don't want to see Gwen die for the sake see her die. It's because we know its coming,its building up to that moment we can't have it simply thrown away and substituted for something less.and then there is that whole Iconic thing it has going for it's self. dobbiamo rispettare la storia di Spider-Man, e nella storia di Spider-Man Gwen Stacy muore.

 

[Web face]

We Dont Agree on alot of things on here. But you are Absolutely right.
I also thank you for respecting my views. I may have been wrong about the whole popcorn thing.

WE don't want to see Gwen die for the sake see her die. It's because we know its coming,its building up to that moment we can't have it simply thrown away and substituted for something less.and then there is that whole Iconic thing it has going for it's self. dobbiamo rispettare la storia di Spider-Man, e nella storia di Spider-Man Gwen Stacy muore.

I agree, it's not like I want her to die because I don't like her character or anything. In fact, she is easily my favorite Spider-man movie love interest.

 

[OP84CC82]

Hell, even Emma Stone agrees:

http://tinyurl.com/7x98p5o

How do you know she said that either to only please the fanboys obsessed with total comic book accuracy or because she didn't want to stay with this franchise forever and that killing her character might be the only way out. Just saying.

 

[OP84CC82]

At the end of the day, he is still the happy wisecracking web head that still has hope.

We're talking about Peter Parker right?

 

[LegendAssemble]

u really think Spidey movies would get stuck in a stunted state of growth and can't mature and grow like a simple book series such as HP?

gimme a break

if thats the case why do ppl keep reading the comics? how is it writers keep finding new and interesting ways to push the character in new directions and help the character develop and grow more?

there is ALWAYS a story to be told. it just has to be the write time, the right place, the right story and the right writer.

there is no excuse for sticking to the cliche and over done/over used trilogy formula

I don't think it needs to be a trilogy by any means, but I don't think they should go beyond 4 films. Comics and movies are very different mediums and mediocre comics are inevitable. Ones that are good but easily forgettable, thats something I'd like to avoid. Personally I'd rather have a solid resolution like in TDKR than an incomplete ending because it got canceled.

I'm sorry to jump in a conversation that doesn't involve me, but that's the best part of spider-man. Everything both you and LegendAssemble said. He goes through so much pain, and so much suffering but he still gets through it all. At the end of the day, he is still the happy wisecracking web head that still has hope. He is a glimmer of light in a sometimes very dark world. When he is finally happy, you are also happy for him. You feel like this guy earned it.

couldn't have said it better, so I'll just use you're response as mine.

We Dont Agree on alot of things on here. But you are Absolutely right.
I also thank you for respecting my views. I may have been wrong about the whole popcorn thing.

WE don't want to see Gwen die for the sake see her die. It's because we know its coming,its building up to that moment we can't have it simply thrown away and substituted for something less.and then there is that whole Iconic thing it has going for it's self. dobbiamo rispettare la storia di Spider-Man, e nella storia di Spider-Man Gwen Stacy muore.

Exactly. We don't want her to die because it happened in the comics, we want her to die because its been built up and very much does make sense in this universe.

How do you know she said that either to only please the fanboys obsessed with total comic book accuracy or because she didn't want to stay with this franchise forever and that killing her character might be the only way out. Just saying.

Actors and Actresses tend not to do that. Look at Harrison Ford saying to this day they should have killed Han Solo in Jedi and George Clooney going on a late night talk show to apologize for Batman and Robin. Plus it's not the fanboys that make the movie it's money, it's the general audience it lures in with the trailers and marketing.

 

[LegendAssemble]

And this is where you lose me. Because this is just wrong. Innocence, hope, love, you need that to really live. If you don't have that, then what's the point? A REAL mature adult understands that life can suck, but it can also be beautiful. Good things happen everyday. Maybe you should drop the juvenile cynicism, and actually look for it. Spider-Man hasn't been a practice in relatability in a long time, it's been a string of endless torture. And I'm sorry, but I wanna see a character I care about actually be happy, NOT miserable, because I don't get my jollies off by watching decent people be in pain. I care about what's actually best for them.

Also I'd like to point out that stories can exemplify one aspect of life. The modern story evolved from fabels and wise tales which were ment to teach the listener something about you. Spider-Man for example isn't supposed to teach you that life is miserable, but that you can keep your spirits up through the worst of your problems and that there is always a lesson to be learned from misfortune.

 

[gugumugats]

Make the 2nd movie end on a depressing note with her death.

Bring her back in the 3rd via Clone Saga.

 

[LegendAssemble]

Make the 2nd movie end on a depressing note with her death.

Bring her back in the 3rd via Clone Saga.

Ehhh I don't know about all that...