The Amazing Spider-Man Which Incarnation of Spider-Man?

[VenomVsSpidey]

Thank god. They both suck!



Yeah, over 60 years of 616 material t:

Ultimate Spider-Man just took Stan Lee's ideas and perverted them. Especially with the villains.

to all of that

 

[spider-neil]

I am not a Batman fan, not to the point I am with Spider-Man. I enjoy Nolan's versions (TDK moreso that BB, thought BB was actually pretty weak and have said so), as I did not grow up reading Batman like I did Spider-Man.

That said, even with BB I found a more serious/realistic approach to Nolan's Batman than with Raimi's Spider-Man. I found much more fleshed out bielevable characters in Nolan's verse. I found a Director with a vision, a true vision, mabe one that does not match up exaclty to the comics (again, did not read them so do not know), but one who was NOT afraid to tell a serious story involving richly developed characters, that one could vest themselves into.

A director who was NOT afraid to kill off some characters, showing that Yes Virginia.. There is a BIG BAD WOLF at times. That the price one pays for "being a hero" sometimes is the ultimate price for those you love.

And YES, that is Spider-Man's birthright. And it SHOULD have been on the big screen.

IF Raimi/Sony had done that.. a LOT of the other could of been "forgiven".

I hate how batman shows his face in every thread but I can't help myself.

in batman;
- his girlfriend finds out who he is
- his girlfriend is in trouble at every turn
- some villians die
- some villians are sympathetic
- some villians screen time is so short it can be described a a cameo
- the hero is willing to give up everything for the girl
- only a few characters are fleshed out especially in the case of the villians
- LOADS of characters are missing or plucked from thin air
- lots of aspects of batman aren't explored or minimized for example batman being the world greatest detective, batman having a genius level intelligence, batman creating many of his own gadgets
- many aspects of batman changed altogether, car, suit, etc

but batman gets a total pass. the double standards is ridiculous and frigging hilarious

 

[TheSlag]

I hate how batman shows his face in every thread but I can't help myself.

in batman;
- his girlfriend finds out who he is
- his girlfriend is in trouble at every turn
- some villians die
- some villians are sympathetic
- some villians screen time is so short it can be described a a cameo
- the hero is willing to give up everything for the girl
- only a few characters are fleshed out especially in the case of the villians
- LOADS of characters are missing or plucked from thin air
- lots of aspects of batman aren't explored or minimized for example batman being the world greatest detective, batman having a genius level intelligence, batman creating many of his own gadgets
- many aspects of batman changed altogether, car, suit, etc

but batman gets a total pass. the double standards is ridiculous and frigging hilarious

1) You hate how Batman comes up in every thread, and yet YOU bring it up in a Spider-Man thread
2) As I said, I do not, nor have not, read the Batman comics. So I am assuming you are listing the things that you dislike or are different in the Movies (Nolan's verse) from the "classic comics"? Was there a classic comic time in Batman's verse, like there was with the Lee's Spider-Man? Because that was and still is my point. So for example, I assume that Batman's GF never discovers his secret in the comics?
3) I found the villains (at least in TDK) very well fleshed out. And much more serious/motivated than Raimi's Spider-Man
4) Obviously Two Face was sympathetic, but to my limited understanding, his character in the comics I thought was sympathetic?
5) I do not remember villains being merely cameos's in Nolan's verse, but I could be forgetting something in BB, cause as I said, I did not find that to be that great IMO
6) I thought TDK paid great tribute to Batmans's detective skills and his intelligence, with his work with Gordon (working to catch Joker) and Fox (designing new Technology.. hell, he frickin designed that sonic spying that tapped into all the Cells phones)
7) and the BatMobile compared to what Nolan gave us was HEAD and SHOULDERS above it. Like I said, if Raimi had improved on aspects of the Classic ASM.. MORE POWER to him. HE DID NOT.. IMO.

Where did he in Your Opinion? Curious

 

[The Joker]

Let me help you out here, Slag, on the Batman stuff you're not certain about....

4) Obviously Two Face was sympathetic, but to my limited understanding, his character in the comics I thought was sympathetic?

Yes, he is. He's one of Batman's most tragic villains. You're supposed to feel sorry for Dent.

5) I do not remember villains being merely cameos's in Nolan's verse, but I could be forgetting something in BB, cause as I said, I did not find that to be that great IMO

He could be referring to Zsasz in BB. But Zsasz is like a C-list villain. He's Batman's Carnage. A one dimensional serial killer. Nobody gave a flying fudge that he was reduced to a cameo.

If he means Scarecrow in TDK, since Scarecrow was a major player in BB, and was still on the loose at the end of it, bringing him back for a cool action sequence where he gets captured was fine, IMO.

If that had been the first time we saw him, then that would have been a waste.

 

[DACMAN]

Edit

dp

 

[DACMAN]

Not to mention out of two films Batman's girl was in danger twice. Out of two films MJ was in danger 5 times! That's right, five times!!!! That's just lazy writing.

He catches her from falling in the lunch room

Saves her from falling in Times Square

He saves her from thugs in the rain

He saves her from GG at the end of 1

He saves her from Doc Ock in 2

 

[The Joker]

Not to mention out of two films Batman's girl was in danger twice.

I'm afraid that's not true. In Begins, Batman saved her in the subway from Falcone's thugs, he saved her from Scarecrow in Arkham, and he saved her and the kid in the Narrows from Zsasz. In TDK, he saved her when Joker threw her out the window. Of course he failed to save her from the bomb situation.

But in the defense of the Rachel Dawes character, she was a D.A. who was fighting corruption in a city that was full of corruption. So she was likely to be a target. MJ has no such defense.

 

[chaseter]

How many times has Spider-Man saved MJ in the comics?

 

[spider-neil]

Not to mention out of two films Batman's girl was in danger twice. Out of two films MJ was in danger 5 times! That's right, five times!!!! That's just lazy writing.

He catches her from falling in the lunch room

Saves her from falling in Times Square

He saves her from thugs in the rain

He saves her from GG at the end of 1

He saves her from Doc Ock in 2

four times.

He saves her from a mugger (she tries to tazer him for his trouble)

He saves her from the scarecrow when she is drugged

He saves her when she gets pushed out a window

He 'attempts' to save her when she is strapped to a bomb

 

[chaseter]

Your forgot when Joker throws her out the window. So 5 times...he just failed the last time.

 

[TheSlag]

True. As Joker had already pointed out above. But, in fairness to where Dac is coming from, 3 Raimi SM movies.. 3 Final Battles ALL with the ONE GIRL in peril.

Lazy writing/direction.

:

 

[chaseter]

In fairness, if you are going to complain then at least know what you are complaining about.

 

[TheSlag]

Where did he in Your Opinion? Curious

I am curious, from anyone, thinking about changes/improvements Nolan made in Batman (changing the lame Batmobile), what aspects of Raimi's Spider-Man did Raimi improve over the classic? Or do even as well?

And I know it's all opinion. Not fact from Either Side.

One I think he at least got as well, if not better, was the battles. Thinking of the wall and subway battles with Ock in SM2, and to a lesser extent, the final battle in SM1, and Harry vs. Peter first battle in SM3.

All awesome, and felt like they were lifted directly off the comic pages, or possibly even imporved upon.

 

[TheSlag]

In fairness, if you are going to complain then at least know what you are complaining about.

Yeah, I'm sure you've NEVER made a mistake.

And besides, his point still stands.

 

[spider-neil]

Your forgot when Joker throws her out the window. So 5 times...he just failed the last time.

its 4 as I mention when she gets pushed out a window.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think SM3 could have done without MJ in peril, there I will agree. But, I don 't think it is a problem with SM1 or SM2.

 

[zeptron]

SM3 could have put Gwen in trouble at the end since she added nothing to the film.

 

[TheSlag]

SM3 could have put Gwen in trouble at the end since she added nothing to the film.

Agreed.

1) it would of been SOMETHING different at least
2) Brock had a fascination with Gwen, so it could of easily fit
3) they could of played off Peter feeling guilty for using Gwen to try to make MJ jealous.. where Sandman could of taken Gwen, thinking that Peter did love Gwen. LOL.. Maybe he did NOT stick around to see Dancin Emo Peter at the club, he only saw Peter taking Gwen in.

 

[chaseter]

Yeah, I'm sure you've NEVER made a mistake.

And besides, his point still stands.

His point was that SM1 and SM2 had the girl in peril way more than BB and TDK, which made the Spider-Man movies worse in his opinion. He was then proven wrong. So no, his point doesn't stand.

SM3 could have put Gwen in trouble at the end since she added nothing to the film.

SM3 should have done a lot of things differently. I don't care if people attack that film, it deserves it.

 

[TheSlag]

His point was that SM1 and SM2 had the girl in peril way more than BB and TDK, which made the Spider-Man movies worse in his opinion. He was then proven wrong. So no, his point doesn't stand.

I think 3 final battles with the same ALL ABOUT ONE Girl in Peril, as well as MAKING Spider-Man something it NEVER WAS (said... ALL about ONE girl).. speaks "volumes" to his point of lazy writing/directing.

 

[chaseter]

I agree that 3 final battles that start and end the same is lazy. I don't like SM3. That was one thing that made SM3 bad. Because they did it in the first two films, the same exact way it has been done in other franchises that some believe are better movies and decide to compare them to this franchise, is completely baseless.

 

[TheSlag]

Speaking of Volumes.. It's a sad day for Spidey Fandom IMO when the crap that is SSM (Cartoon) is close (in the poll) to the greatness of Lee/Ditko's ASM. :

 

[chaseter]

Speaking of Volumes.. It's a sad day for Spidey Fandom IMO when the crap that is SSM (Cartoon) is close (in the poll) to the greatness of Lee/Ditko's ASM. :

This, I agree with.

 

[SpeterMan3]

Dang, I love the show but I wouldn't want it in movie form. Especially since it's already on TV. It seems a little stupid to me to base a live action movie off of a cartoon that is itself an adaptation of years and years of stories.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I completely agree, SSM is a good show. But, Lee/Ditko or Lee/Romita? That is going too far.

But, we have to recognize Spider-Man fans are not just made from the Lee/Ditko era, and most are not historians for the character like a lot of us are. So they won't seek these stories out. I first became a Spidey fan with the 90's comics, and then the 90's TAS. But, some people were made Spidey fans by that. Some were made by USM. Others SSM. I am glad I seeked out the older stuff, but I know most of us won't do that and rely on wikipedia for history.

That said, I hope Lee/Ditko/Romita are the core for this Spidey film. It would be nice to see something closer to that.

As for Raimi's films, I'll always like them for what they are. Are they the definitive Spider-Man to me? No, but just because they did something different in many ways doesn't take them down IMO. It just makes them another take. Like any USM, cartoon, etc is. Lee/Ditko/Romita will always be my Spider-Man. No question. Raimi did things well, he did other things wrong. But, overall I loved his films. I make no apologies for that.