Which is the most original Batman movie?

[Bat Attack]

Batman Returns.

 

[mystory64]

Yes.



Yes.



Not really. Burton was the one who really capture Frank Miller's Batman!



Are you talking to me or Kevin Roegle?



Did you see Bruce W. Timm and Paul Dini anywhere in the credits? Sub-Zero is in continuity with the show but Timm and Dini weren't involved. Whenever those two are involved they stay faithful to the O'Neal/Adams era. Batman Beyond is possibly the only exception.

Okay... well other than '89 being "dark" how exactly did he capture Miller's Batman? Begins has an over-sized tank-like Batmobile (ala Dark Knight Returns) the entire escape from Arkham with the bats is right out of Year One, Bruce going out pre-costume is also right out of Year One, also Begins' Gordon is a spittin image of Mazzucchelli's art. The Falcone stuff was set-up in Miller land as well, tho the Ras stuff came from O'Neal/Adams era and being that the Dark Knight is officially coming out next summer that name alone is a play on The Dark Knight Returns. So to say Begins is mostly Loeb is hardly accurate and I can't think of one scene in either Burton films that is actually in Miller material, help me out here I don't see it.

As for Sub-Zero I didn't see you posting anything about Dini and Timm, you just said Animated Films = O'Neal/Adams ... so okay....

 

[Bat Attack]

begins vs. "b89"...blah blah blah

 

[Catman]

Okay... well other than '89 being "dark" how exactly did he capture Miller's Batman?

Batman/Bruce Wayne is just as crazy as the villains.

Begins has an over-sized tank-like Batmobile (ala Dark Knight Returns) the entire escape from Arkham with the bats is right out of Year One, Bruce going out pre-costume is also right out of Year One, also Begins' Gordon is a spittin image of Mazzucchelli's art. The Falcone stuff was set-up in Miller land as well, tho the Ras stuff came from O'Neal/Adams era and being that the Dark Knight is officially coming out next summer that name alone is a play on The Dark Knight Returns. So to say Begins is mostly Loeb is hardly accurate and I can't think of one scene in either Burton films that is actually in Miller material, help me out here I don't see it.

Begins borrowed ideas from Year One but its not Miller's Batman. Miller's Batman is psychotic. Begins Batman is a Jeph Loeb Batman.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Yeah. Keaton as Batman screams of The Dark Knight Returns. Voted Batman '89 because of many of the original plot elements: Jack Napier being the shooter of Bruce's parents, Bruce Wayne as a quaint billionairre, the Joker's stay in Gotham City being not too long because he died by the end of the movie, etc.

Really, B89 and BR are both equally original. I voted B89 mainly b/c it came first.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

B89 was very comic-inspired. It's the more accurate of Burton's two films.

BR is the most original. Burton took the characters to strange new heights. He turned the portrayals on their heads, keeping them true to the spirit of Batman, but taking them from another angle. He sent Batman into a revenge-fueled abyss, made Catwoman the same, instead of a burgler, made the Penguin a tragic and corrupted orphan, and made Batman more of an outsider than the comics portrayed. He hardly speaks to Gordon, if ever. They only call on him if they're in immediate need. Otherwise, Batman works on his own.

He asks us: "have you thought about this aspect of Batman?" And plays up the idea that a man can get lost inside his vendetta, which is something BB hints at with "You're getting lost inside this monster of yours." His portrayal of Batman in B89 is fairly stock/what we expect until the last act, when Bruce goes on a childish, immature and dark vendetta to kill his parents' murderer instead of bringing him in.

Had Bruce been man enough, like the comics, he wouldn't have the lust for vengeance. He would be content for justice to happen the right way. But it was early in Bruce's career, and Burton paints a picture of a man who didn't grow up anyway. He became adult the moment his parents were killed, but he did not become wise. Burton started the seeds of a more psychologically obtuse and realistic portrayal of Bruce's psyche, he made Bruce into a man who would have mentally taken his situation in the way most of us would have, while still maintaining the professional and intelligent behavior we expect from Batman, as per the books, but he made Bruce more realistically damaged from the ordeal. But this is not fully fleshed out until BR.

BR is the most original, and will stay that way for the rest of the series of films, I'll bet. Giving the Joker a scarred face or making the Batmobile a tank does not really constitute a deep sense of originality, IMO. When you can take the established material, and tweak it in a new, interesting way, while still maintaining fidelity to the style, mood and tone of said material, THAT's originality.

 

[SurfDUI]

Batman Returns.

Batman Returns...Where else will you see a motorized rubber duck!

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Batman/Bruce Wayne is just as crazy as the villains.

And Batman kills the Joker.

 

[union_jak]

Batman Returns did stuff no other comic book movie has done. In fact normal films in general fear to go down that route. It kept away from generic conventions and made a masterpiece.

 

[November Rain]

It has to be returns really...

although if we are counting films...

Than Return of the Joker is more original than Mask of the phantasm

I mean the joker died, A young boy killed him, got the joker implanted inside him, Bruce wayne's batcave got broken into and he nearly died (alright that happened in forever), and the fight was won not due to batman's aid as had been seen throughout most of beyond but by terry taking some initiative and figuring out who the joker was and defeating him flat out in battle while also humiliating him with his last breath.

But for live action, Returns is so far out there, i don't even have another superhero film (let alone batman film) i can relate it to. First film to do three villains well and introduce one from scratch just for the sake of the film that isn't corny. It also completely reinvents characters like penguin and catwoman and makes them work within the film. I also like the harder non bull**** batman that was shown, i doubt batman has been darker than he was in that film.

lots of plot, well played out. Great film and very original.

 

[The Joker]

And Batman kills the Joker.

"You want to get nuts?? Come on, lets get nuts"

 

[waufreak89]

For most original, I would definitely have to go with Batman Returns. What makes Batman Returns so unique is the fact it’s not a Batman film as much as it is a Tim Burton film. From top to bottom Batman Returns sports the Burton trademarks. The film takes well known and beloved characters and sheds them in a light never quite seen before. The end result is a brilliant physiological thriller, which creates a whole new vision while simultaneously doing justice to the rich Batman Universe.

 

[union_jak]

Let's not forget that Mask of the Phantasm is based on Year Two and all of the live action films except for Returns get ideas from the stories.

Common Bat themes
Boss 'kills' employee
Employee takes revenge, becoming a villain and killing them in return
Villain wants to damage the city
'Falling'- several people fall to their deaths

The old films became too formulaic, thats where Begins differs, however that film uses many old ideas anyway.

 

[union_jak]

All those themes were in Returns.

Yes I know, they were started in B89... but Returns didn't use the comics for backstory to resort to story... Penguin was a 'boss' but of a circus gang, not the mob, and Catwoman was very different as we know. It was the only original interpretation, and Burton paid for it by being removed from the series.

 

[DieSmiling]

Batman '89, but only because it was the first one.

 

[Victarion]

It came down to Returns vs Begins. Ultimately, I went with Begins because the origin really hooked me.

BATNINJA VANISH!

I really liked both.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Yes I know, they were started in B89... but Returns didn't use the comics for backstory to resort to story... Penguin was a 'boss' but of a circus gang, not the mob, and Catwoman was very different as we know. It was the only original interpretation, and Burton paid for it by being removed from the series.

Not too different. Catwoman stayed fairly close to the comic material. The most altered villain would be the Penguin, but even then there were strong similarities between BR's Penguin and the original incarnation from the comics.

 

[The Chairman]

Returns. It took a lot of liberties with the source material that could've been damaging, but they worked excellently.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Gotta love risk-taking directors.

 

[Noir]

Forever, it was the first batfilm to look into the psychology of batman. You must see the deleted scenes.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Forever, it was the first batfilm to look into the psychology of batman. You must see the deleted scenes.

The deleted scenes are not part of the movie though, and therefore you can't count them. That's the problem.

 

[Noir]

The deleted scenes are not part of the movie though, and therefore you can't count them. That's the problem.

Thats why I wish they'd let Joel release a director's cut

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

Batman 1989,i think it was a dark portrayal of Batman.Not in classic terms,but in a gothic sort of way.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Burton's two Bat-films by far.

 

[Spider-Bat]

Batman Returns.