Sequels Who would you bring back: Green Goblin or Doc Ock?

[Spiderine]

I just don't think Harry or Norman should be returned from the dead. Certainly there is really nothing else to do with Harry after he and Peter resolved their conflict.

 

[Hectorminator]

Word. Harry's story is done.

But you could bring back Norman and it would be awesome. And he'd want revenge for his son dying, even though it was basically Norman's fault.

 

[The Master Planner]

Doctor Octopus. I have been harping on this topic for years now. I have even written a petition which would accomplish this purpose. If you agree, click on this link:

http://www.petitiononline.com/octopus/petition.html

 

[The Joker_1000]

I'm actually not sure now because both are great villains. Between the two the Green Goblin is my favorite but I guess it wouldn't hurt anything if Doc Ock were to return one last time.

 

[SpideyStu2]

Unfortunately, we'll probably never see these two in another Spider-film until they "reboot" the franchise, like Batman.

That being said, it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring back either one of these. If there's a small chance of it even happening, I think it'd be Doc Ock instead of Normie. There's been enough Goblins in the franchise so far. And Ock as a mastermind with lesser villains working for him might actually work as a "Sinister Six" story.

 

[The Joker_1000]

Doc Ock has the potential to be much more badass if he returns.

 

[BatSpider]

Doc Ock has the potential to be much more badass if he returns.

Yea, it would be awkward if GG would come back from the dead

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

Doc Ock couldn't work... it would completely destroy his redemptive character arc, and regardless of what fans want, you know that bringing back Ock and making him evil again would come across as contrived and cheap, because it WOULD be contrived and cheap.

I'm not advocating bringing back Green Goblin, but he's still evil, and he was still sort of an overriding force in Spider-Man 2 and 3. "Return of the Goblin" would pack much more of a punch than "return of Doc Ock."

 

[Visionary]

I disagree, Doc Ock's return would pack more of a punch with audiences, no doubt. A hint of any Goblins returning, would simply not go over well at all.

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

I disagree, Doc Ock's return would pack more of a punch with audiences, no doubt. A hint of any Goblins returning, would simply not go over well at all.

Any notion of how he could be brought back in a way that isn't forced or contrived, or contradictory to his entire character arc.

 

[The Joker_1000]

I disagree, Doc Ock's return would pack more of a punch with audiences, no doubt. A hint of any Goblins returning, would simply not go over well at all.

The Goblin saga is dead & buried (quite literally) so Doc Ock returning wouldn't be a bad idea at all.

 

[The Professor]

Ock

But they do need to bring back the giant painting of Willem Dafoe from Spiderman 3

 

[The Joker_1000]

Why? There's no point.

Anyway, I still think we need to see the Hobgoblin if we are to get any other type of Goblin. And this Hobgoblin should have actual super-powers.

 

[Visionary]

Any notion of how he could be brought back in a way that isn't forced or contrived, or contradictory to his entire character arc.

As a matter of fact I do have a notion, as a five minute flashback from Spider-Man 2, is all we need to get the good Doctor back where he belongs:

At the same time we see Spidey/MJ swing away from Doc Ock's wrecked hideout, we then see a police boat with divers moving toward the scene. We then see Peter/MJ on the big web googly eyeing and yappin' it up, not paying attention, not from way up there. Let's just say the gavitational pull of the energy orb dwindles underwater, sense it wasn't pulling Ock towards it. The divers dive into the water, grab Ock and pull him to the surface. Scene of divers swimming with Ock to the surface, as the energy orb continues to descend. They perform CPR and revive him, weak but alive, while the police boat speeds away--of course to get him to a hospital. Tentacles' lights glow, killing and throwing all from the boat, as one tentacle drives the police vessel toward the docks. Doctor Octopus lives.

Now, we have Doc Ock alive and Spidey doesn't even know it. Actually, no one knows it, yet.

 

[Hectorminator]

^ that's one way to have Doc Ock come back using a flashback scene from Spidey 2.

I still like my idea better, where BOTH Norman Osborn AND Doc Ock come back from the "dead", because it wouldn't take anything away from the previous movies, if anything, it makes Spider-Man 3 like a MILLION times better.

The way Doc Ock comes back is after Norman Osborn fishes him out of the river himself (he's been alive since the first Spidey movie, too.) Then Osborn brain-washes Ock into believing that Spidey was the reason his experiment failed and his Rosie died, (even though it's later revelead that Norman was in fact the saboteur) and everytime Octavius starts snapping out of it (he is a genius after all, and kind of good at heart) Osborn increases the dosage of his powerful hallucenogins. Behind the scenes, Octavius becomes Osborn's top scientist as Norman Osborn makes his public comeback in Spider-Man 5 and claims he had amnesia after his car accident and re-enters society. (In reality he healed from his wounds really slowly and woke up at the morgue. He killed some coroners and replaced his body with a drifter's then took off to Europe to lay low. He then drugs Harry and manipulates his life to get him to follow in his footsteps as the new Goblin.)

That way, by the end of Spider-Man 6, when we finally see Norman Osborn (who comes back at the end of Spider-Man 4, but doesn't become the "Green Goblin" again until his master plan is enacted in Spidey 6) form the Sinister Six, Doctor Octopus can redeem himself again and turn against Osborn and help Spider-Man save New York.

I got way more to this so feel free to challenge me. Like everybody else has. BUT everyone I talk to in person said this would be a sweet way to link the next three movies with the previous ones. Lemme know.

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

As a matter of fact I do have a notion, as a five minute flashback from Spider-Man 2, is all we need to get the good Doctor back where he belongs:

From a practical standpoint, that idea works marvelously. From a literary standpoint, it makes one wonder what the hell was the point of what happened at the end of Spider-Man 2. That was supposed to be his moment of redemption. To see him come back and be evil again would be kind of... "Oh. Well I guess the whole 'I will not die a monster' bit was completely pointless."

And you could argue that it doesn't TECHNICALLY contradict the statement, because he didn't DIE. But that's not the point. The point is, that was his moment of overcoming the control of the tentacles and doing, for the very last time, the right thing, sacrificing himself to save the city. By bringing him back, that all goes out the window.

It'd be like bringing back Darth Vader in Star Wars Episode VII through IX.

 

[TomPiltoff]

Dude, you're just ticked 'cause I totally showed you up, argument-wise.

Yeah, it has nothing to do with your incredibly lame ideas.

I can't believe I'm gonna have to keep saying this, but yeah, someone with as much wealth and power as Norman Osborn can fake their death. He did it in the comics, and it would work on film. He replaced his body's with a drifter's. And how do you know what even happened to Osborn after Spidey took him back home? We don't know, they never showed us. After Osborn comes back and claims he had amnesia, he could easily fake his death certificate and say that he was in a boating accident and his body was never found.

Ugh. No.

Norman Osborn, millionaire psycho, COULD fake his death if he wanted to.

BUT he didn't plan on getting stabbed in the kidneys with his glider. He can't be on the edge of death, wake up in the morgue, GET UP without anybody seeing him, find a drifter, kill him, drag the body back to the morgue, break in without anybody seeing him, replace the body and expect anybody to not notice that, holy crap, this isn't Norman Osborn.

That suggestion requires about 5 leaps of faith, it's too unrealistic.

Again, you don't know who even buried Osborn. It could have been just Bernard, the trusty butler. Yeah, Osborn would have had an obituary in the papers, but they're not gonna show you his dead body in the news or anything, man! "Tonight, millionaire Norman Osborn was in a fatal car accident, now here's a picture of his dead body, just to make sure..."

Of course not. But the mortician would notice that it wasn't Osborn, as would anybody else who came in contact with the replaced body. I mean, I'm sure Harry checked his dads vital signs when Peter dropped him off.

Or are we now in Schumacher land where a mans heart can begin beating 24 hours after he died, without brain damage or necrosis?

No, it isn't. He wants his son to follow in his footsteps. Dude, were you even watching the movies?

Yes, I did watch the movies and I think you missed something: that wasn't really the ghost of Norman in the mirror. Those scenes were either meant to show Harrys internal struggle or suggest that psychosis runs in the Osborn family.

How can you not feel sympathetic for Harry after you found out that his turning evil was even more not his own fault!?! HIS DAD DRUGGED HIM!! THTA'S EVEN MORE TRAGIC THAN HIM BEING AN ALCOHOLIC!! HE WOULD GET EVEN MORE SYMPATHY!!!

As things stand right now, the tragic thing about Harry Osborn is that anybody would feel the same way in his situation. In Spidey 2 he thinks his best friend is working with his fathers killer and, grasping for straws, asks the completely reasonable question 'if you knew who he was, would you tell me?'. WE know why Peter can't say yes, but to Harry it looks like he's saying 'no, he pays me well'.

THAT is a well grounded basis for such a tragic misunderstanding.

Who the hell can relate to their assumed-dead father somehow drugging them behind the scenes and hiding in mirrors? Besides again drifting into Schumacher territory it's just not as moving.

I have no idea what you could be thinking, it doesn't make any sense at all, dude. I'm sitting here trying to make Spider-Man 3 a BETTER MOVIE on repeated viewings, and by making Norman Osborn responsible for the stupid random crap that was happening, I'm doing just that.

No you aren't. You're trying to improve the mess that was Spider-Man 3, yes, but you're going about it completely the wrong way.

To watch that again, knowing that Osborn was funding that secret experiemnt in sand and behind the bunker, makes it all the better. Number one: it makes that scene not so random and unbelievable. Number two: it makes the Green Goblin TRULY Spider-Man's arch-nemesis, his greatest enemy.

Oh yes, what an improvement. Rather than leaving things as is, which is Flint Marko running from the cops and falling into an experiment we have

Flint Marko, broken out by Norman Osborn (though Flint doesn't know this), running from the cops, somehow mysteriously guided to the field.

Furthermore Norman banks on Flint choosing to jump the fence. He also gambles on Flint falling into the pit.

Rather than turning the machine on himself (which seems plausible if we're assuming Norman has the means to buy land and build experimental machinery), Norman hires somebody to do it for him. And does he hire people who are loyal to him and turn on the machine no questions asked? No. Apparently he hires well-meaning scientists who have no idea that they're being paid by the presumed dead Norman Osborn. LUCKILY they're just incompetent enough to turn the machine on.

MUCH better. :|

No, they didn't succeed in one and two, did you even read what I said? I said that Spider-Man 3 had TOO much original content for some people, and could've used more stories from the comics, like a stronger origin for Venom, a better ending for when Harry Osborn had to die, maybe beginning to date Gwen Stacy, maybe Captain Stacy dying himself, any of those. You know, INSTEAD of Flint Marko shooting Uncle Ben, Eddie Brock involved with Gwen, the symbiote making Peter dorky and not evil, Harry not calling himself a Goblin exactly, etc.

Spider-Man 3 suffered from too many storylines, that's all.

I agree that Venom needed a better origin, Harry a better death and a deeper romance with Gwen. But the solution for that is either a four hour long movie or some of those elements removed completely. Adding some convoluted, utterly unrealistic story line with Norman just makes things orders of magnitude worse.

Spider-Man 1 and 2 were FULL of stories from the comics, really well adapted and moved around, but from the comics nonetheless. Part 3 was the most "original."
And my ideas MIGHT be used in future Spider-Man movies, YOUR LACK OF IDEAS will never be used. And that's a guarantee.

I personally guarantee that if your ideas are used (that is to say, not only Norman coming back, but in the manner you described) it would absolutely be the worst reviewed and received Spider-Man movie ever.

And you're right, I have no ideas personally. Because I'm not a writer. I don't have to have ideas to say that yours suck.

 

[Visionary]

From a practical standpoint, that idea works marvelously. From a literary standpoint, it makes one wonder what the hell was the point of what happened at the end of Spider-Man 2. That was supposed to be his moment of redemption. To see him come back and be evil again would be kind of... "Oh. Well I guess the whole 'I will not die a monster' bit was completely pointless."

And you could argue that it doesn't TECHNICALLY contradict the statement, because he didn't DIE. But that's not the point. The point is, that was his moment of overcoming the control of the tentacles and doing, for the very last time, the right thing, sacrificing himself to save the city. By bringing him back, that all goes out the window.

It'd be like bringing back Darth Vader in Star Wars Episode VII through IX.

Yeah, but let's not get too deep, this ain't "Schindler List." All you need is something that's plausable for the realm of a comic book films, and move on. Let the audience decide, and believe me, if they crank out this story in a dramatic way...they'll bite and swallow it gladly.

Lack of oxygen to the brain could be the reason Doc Ock goes all out badass, to hell with redemption. Remember, even in the funny books, it was said that Ock may have suffered brain damage from his accident, well, this part can be the 2nd half of that accident. This is the realm of Sci-Fi meets comic books, I think it'll go over pretty well.

However, these scenes have to be shot in a dramatic way, told by an on-looker's point of view (V.O.) as the scene is being played out. In fact, this on-looker could be the one who sets up the first sighting for the Daily Bugle. Spider-Man reading the newspaper high above the streets of New York City in disbelief:

THE RETURN OF DOCTOR OCTOPUS.

 

[TomPiltoff]

Yeah, but let's not get too deep, this ain't "Schindler List." All you need is something that's plausable for the realm of a comic book films, and move on. Let the audience decide, and believe me, if they crank out this story in a dramatic way...they'll bite and swallow it gladly.

I completely disagree. The best comic book movies thus far have been the most grounded ones.

 

[Visionary]

There are no mostly grounded comic book films, period, that's just something fanboys tell themselves to seem less like a geek. Which never works, because the moment they start telling of what's realistic or mostly grounded in reality, the geekier they become. And the best comic book film(s) lies within the eye of the beholder, nothing more than opinions--like with any other movie.

 

[bullets]

I think it would be absurd for either to come back as most mainstream audiences wouldn't accept it .

Green Goblin , Impaled and buried
Dr. Octopus , came to his senses , drowned , hes been dead for a while though.
New Goblin , we saw his funeral , he is really dead.

 

[Visionary]

Not for Doc Ock, I think most would accept if it was well written. Well, of course there will always be those who don't, then again, that's the nature of these types of films.

 

[TomPiltoff]

There are no mostly grounded comic book films, period,

Actually, yes there are.

Of course when walking into a movie called Spider-Man you know you're going to have to suspend your disbelief and take it on faith that a kid can get powers by being bitten by a spider.

But because you're forced to make one or two leaps in logic doesn't mean that you can ask it of the audience whenever necessary 'because it's a comic book movie'. Characters have to live in a consistent world and that is broken when Norman Osborn turns into posthumous Machiavelli.

that's just something fanboys tell themselves to seem less like a geek.

Oh right. I registered on freaking superherohype.com using my real name, I'm not in any denial about my geekiness. You're also a massive poindexter for being here.

I prefer my comic book movies to feature one or two extraordinary events that occur in the real world rather than what may as well be a live action cartoon where anything can and does occur.

And the best comic book film(s) lies within the eye of the beholder, nothing more than opinions--like with any other movie.

Get right outta town!

 

[Visionary]

Actually, yes there are.

Which ones might I ask?

Of course when walking into a movie called Spider-Man you know you're going to have to suspend your disbelief and take it on faith that a kid can get powers by being bitten by a spider.

But because you're forced to make one or two leaps in logic doesn't mean that you can ask it of the audience whenever necessary 'because it's a comic book movie'. Characters have to live in a consistent world and that is broken when Norman Osborn turns into posthumous Machiavelli.

I'm not talking about Norman Osborn, but Doc Ock, read my flashback about bringing him back, this is something that happens two minute after he's in the water. The audience will easily accept a man being in the water for two minutes, and brought back to life by means of CPR. Especially, if they accepted two men falling thousands of feet off a building onto a moving train and not die. Or a man made of sand. This would be a walk in the park for a Spidey film.

Oh right. I registered on freaking superherohype.com using my real name, I'm not in any denial about my geekiness. You're also a massive poindexter for being here.

So defensive I see, I wasn't even specifically talking about you, just in general. Someone is protesting too much.

I prefer my comic book movies to feature one or two extraordinary events that occur in the real world rather than what may as well be a live action cartoon where anything can and does occur.

Then you better not watch anymore comic book films, because they're about as unbelievable as it gets, especially during their real world extroadinary events. Except when some nut case starts preaching how his favorite fictional comic book character/movie is somehow real worldly. That's when you need the doctors with a white coat that makes you hug yourself.

 

[FaT_tONle]

Ock is going to back in some form or another... unless SM4 bombs or they pull a couple of Schumachers in a row... they aren't going to end the franchise on Vulture... or some dude controlling electricity and robbing banks for the millionth time... or even the Hopgoblin for that matter... and they can't make new villains the new killers of Aunt May and what not... if they make a Venom movie and that does will maybe they'll spin Venom back into the franchise... can't see that... definitely not Norman... I mean unless he's a zombie or something. You need a Venom, or a Sinister 6 to close the deal on this... or do like a clone movie that gets a spinoff franchise but that would be milking the franchise even more than they intend to...